I'm sad about Gaga rejecting her past achievements

[elijahfan 25,895]

Well we have to keep in mind that she's not a restless young girl trying to make it anymore... she's a grown woman with 10 years of career behind her, so that's why she probably sees herself a bit differently than when she started out.

But you shouldn't worry tbh... I mean, gurl is saying this with pink hair on her head, and if ENIGMA is any indication, the Gaga brand is still very much alive.

[GhettoFabulous 18,501]

3 hours ago, Didymus said:

Look...

The problem is this: in her early days she not only released songs, music video's, wore outfits, performed,... She unleashed a whole personality with her own value system to the world and drew us in with it. Let us look at those values a little closer:

- she lived and breathed her art
- she didn't spend money on outlandish things (or at least we didn't see it) and used it to perfect her work, or as she said herself: to make her live shows bigger and better
- she kept her personal life private, since she didn't want to be a shallow celebrity—she focused only on her work and what it meant
- she dared to go against the grain with regards to how people thought about Lady Gaga, defying expectations at every turn, both musically and visually

All those values have been shot to sh-t basically So the "maturity" or "she changed" argument is a dangerous one to make. It basically means her values, her personality, her intelligence as a person deteriorated, since all those values are good, wholesome values that we should respect, admire and champion in the pop scene

Instead now we're forced to stan for someone who tried to revive her career by going on Ellen dressed like any other celeb, talking about her ****ing BOYFRIEND for media buzz, who called playing in someone else's movie the best artistic experience of her career, who resurrected a pastiche of her old self to sell tickets in Vegas, who released a completely inoffensive country ballad of all things to win American hearts, and who is just as passionate about releasing a make-up brand nobody needs as she is passionate about "solving the mental health crisis" without doing anything but repeating that's what she wants.

Some of you just lack imagination, I'm sorry You really think there wasn't a way she could take some time off from the spotlight while still delivering the artistic goods? You really think she couldn't have quit the pop star life and made some awesome artistically fulfilling records? You really think she had to sell ****ing make-up like any trashy blogger? That she couldn't have designed a better show than Enigma? She makes choices these days but they certainly aren't in line with the values we fell in love with in the early days. And this false dichotomy so many fans here have drawn up about her old self and her new, more mature, more woke, more whatever self is an absurdity. If her artistry is declining, her personality seems to get more fake every interview, and she barely seems to care about individual art projects anymore for the sake of making art, then she is maturing in a bad way, sorry

What held her back from simply rejecting Hollywood and becoming the next Kate Bush? We know she has the talent for it. What keeps her from just focusing on making high quality music? Why is she still trying to make Diamond Hearts and The Cures? She's still trying to be the pop darling and she's going about it in the least original, progressive way imaginable. And that, kids, is the problem and the insult to her past. If she had any shred of her former authenticity left she would quit music altogether, since it's beyond clear by now she's not that bothered about being a musician anymore. In fact, it seems she's only interested these days in using her music to either just make money (Vegas) or use it as a platform to create media buzz for its own sake (TIHTY's Oscar campaign, ASIB's Oscar campaign and the intentionally created Bradley gossip mag rumors).

What offends me the most is that she's now jumping on the mental health bandwagon as if the only thing she can do is sit on a chair and talk about a few medications she takes, and dream about scientists coming together to solve mental health all over the world. No bitch, you can do a lot more than that, we all could. Put it in your art, or quit your art and become a full-time hard worker in this field. She's completely lost rn trying to figure out how she can become an inspiring figure today while still being safe and thriving commercially. And that's fine. But then the bs bragging about "I'll go back to singing in a bar if I feel pressured" shows off that she's deluding herself these days. She's not that girl. She wants to believe she's that girl but everything she's done in the last few years has shown she'd rather keep her Malibu mansion than take any risk whatsoever. But she's still working hard to convince the world, to convince US, the people who sponsored her for years, that she's that girl and that because she's that girl we should still applaud her for every time she does a mediocre job.

And that's the hurtful thing. I know y'all will just call me a hater but the thing is: I'm stuck here I loved Lady Gaga. The one I knew and cherished. And it's not easy to give up your fantasy about someone who embodied, lived and breathed ideals you love. There is no one like Lady Gaga. No one, still. And I'm not a bad person for sticking around and trying to capture whatever's left of that feeling that made me so inspired, so passionate, so alive. Because not she, but her work, her creative efforts achieved that. And just like she can't even give up smoking a ****ing cigarette, it's hard for me and many others to give up the illusion of her still being a dedicated artist.

What I'm more confused by is why other people are sticking around So that's my question to all the "she changed, deal with it!!!" people. How come y'all aren't bored to death? Do you just stan for Stefani as a celebrity? Is it some kind of mindless consumerism where whatever she does is good enough? Probably. But that's not good enough for me.

WHEEEEWWWW this TEA........ Like I can’t stand all the “she’s changed/get over it”’s that have probably just started stanning her or are too far up her ass to see when she’s actually talking bullshit 

[Galvon 1,868]

Lol the contrast between these two:

From 2:25 to 3:33 and 8:26 to 9:43 and in part 2  from 0:17 to  0:43

Then this one (almost a decade later!!) from 10:23 to 11:05

 

[LilyLark 10,074]

Sigh. Gaga isn't completely turning her back on it—she's saying she started going too far for the shock value. At least that's how I read it along with a lot of other people. The vomit performance is a good example from the ARTPOP era, or back when she used to walk around in public with her tits literally (as in, you could see her nipples) out and call the paps (I'm not talking about wearing a bra and panties in public or going naked on screen, but naked naked).

And no, it's not mindless consumerism to still like Gaga as some of you claim. I don't understand why some of you are insulting those of us who like Gaga's music and liked it back in the day, too? Perhaps you think it's boring, but I feel like some of her strongest songs are from ASIB. My favorite album is still BTW (and I have a soft spot for TFM), but I like the Elton John esque vibe of Just Another Day (which was self written by Gaga), Sinner's Prayer, and 90% of the songs from Joanne.  And I'm not saying I feel this way, but some of you act like she's "uninspired" now—well, I could argue the first stage of her career was more derivative of Madonna/Grace Jones and now she seems more like her own person.

And fine, I understanding not liking the make up brand or when any celeb does a make up brand. I'm ambivalent towards it myself. But I don't understand the constant trashing of Enigma by some of you on here, when it's received rave reviews (arguably the best reviews of any of her concerts) AND you are are aware that she has a medical condition so a residency makes a lot of sense for her in terms of her career and health. Edited: Also, be realistic—the point of ALL concerts is money. You think labels help support their artists, and have live shows written in their contract, for the "artistic value." F*ck no. Interscope, Republic, etc. want the $$$. And why go after her for talking for mental health????? You can drag Gaga legitimately for some sh*t, even if I disagree on some points, but calling her fake for her effort to be involved in mental health organizations and her charity work involved with them is just...ugh.

TLDR: Some of us liked Gaga back then,  and we do back now. Calling us shallow and all that...is just unnecessary. I like Lana, who has changed a lot from Born to Die to Ultraviolence to NFR. I love the Beatles, who changed their sound dramatically. Madonna, Bowie, and Dylan have all dramatically reinvented their sound, and even themselves. It's very common for fans to stick with singers, or even temporarily step back if they don't like a particular "era."  Personally, I fell in love with Gaga's voice and lyrics and her personality, which I still like, and fashion came 3rd and 4th. Instead, it sounds like some of you fell in love with a "certain facet" of Gaga and you dislike that she didn't remain static—which is fine, that's your choice, but it doesn't make the people who feel like her music is still strong "wrong."

[Chromaticunt 5,529]

@Didymus The thing is, Gaga always wanted the fame. You talk about her early career as though she was all about the art, but the Gaga empire was strategically planned for financial and commercial success from the very beginning. The costumes were about attracting attention, the publicity stunts were about attracting attention, the controversial interviews were about attracting attention. Music like Poker Face and Bad Romance are fantastic pop songs but they are POP songs nonetheless, designed to be commercial hits. Even during the height of her artistic proclamation with ARTPOP, she was still begging fans to buy Applause multiple times and using a controversial singer on Do What U Want to keep people outraged, entranced and entertained.

If she truly did only care about the art, she wouldn't have made commercial pop music in the first place. The Fame might have been a different sound for the pop scene at the time, but Gaga still created it with the intention of becoming the biggest pop star in the world. It's not like she was some indie singer like Tori Amos who just happened to become the next Madonna by chance. She deliberately, strategically worked her ass off to become the next Madonna. It was always about being commercial. So when she goes chasing awards and money, you have to remember: she was doing this from the beginning. 

We'll have to wait for LG6 to make a judgement about her pop music career. I'm not convinced she enjoys pop music anymore, but she may still surprise us. 

[LilyLark 10,074]

22 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

@Didymus The thing is, Gaga always wanted the fame. You talk about her early career as though she was all about the art, but the Gaga empire was strategically planned for financial and commercial success from the very beginning. The costumes were about attracting attention, the publicity stunts were about attracting attention, the

music like Poker Face and Bad Romance are fantastic pop songs but they are POP songs nonetheless, specifically designed to be commercial hits. Even during the height of her artistic proclamation with ARTPOP, she was still begging fans to buy Applause multiple times and using a controversial singer on Do What U Want to keep people outraged, entranced and entertained.

If she truly did only care about the art, she wouldn't have made commercial pop music in the first place. The Fame might have been a different sound for the pop scene at the time, but Gaga still created it with the intention of becoming the biggest pop star in the world. It's not like she was some indie singer like Tori Amos who just happened to become the next Madonna by chance. She deliberately, strategically worked her ass off to become the next Madonna. It was always about being commercial. So when she goes chasing awards and money, you have to remember: she was doing this from the beginning. 

We'll have to wait for LG6 to make a judgement about her pop music career. I'm not convinced she enjoys pop music anymore, but she may still surprise us. 

Honestly, all pop stars and actors are about the fame to a certain degree in addition to the music/acting/etc.. And that's fine, people need to stop propping them up on some impossible pedestal. Even someone like Christian Bale who people see as the most arty, authentic actor—dude signed on for two comic book series/films. Another example is FKA Twigs, who clearly callas the paparazzi at times and has name dropped her famous past boyfriends in interviews and then acted annoyed when people still ask about them (and I LOVE FKA twigs as much as Gaga). Plus she has done collabs with Nike and Google.

And I'd argue the Polaroid/perfume was more of a money grab—the make up thing, which I am ambivalent about, seems like a business she enjoys and is involved with versus just slapping her name on a product. Is it ultimately a capitalist business venture for making money versus music which is for art and fame? Of course, but so are all the other celebs make up brands/clothing lines/etc.

As far as your point about pop....I'll get dragged for this, but one could arguably state that Joanne might have been her more "daring" experiment. After ARTPOP's disappointment (it still was a success, but by her previous standards...not so much)—I highly doubt Interscope wanted her to do "stripped down country" when it wasn't even a "fad" back in '16—they probably wanted her to do a safe, radio friendly pop album. If Gag's was only going for acclaim—she could have gone the quasi-Adele route (piano ballads, like her stripped back piano based version of The Edge of Glory). There was no guarantee the soccer mom set would even like Joanne, because she wasn't exactly beloved by them before. But a lot did, along with her usual fans...

I still think Gaga likes pop, but we'll see....

[Didymus 34,379]

21 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

@Didymus The thing is, Gaga always wanted the fame. You talk about her early career as though she was all about the art, but the Gaga empire was strategically planned for financial and commercial success from the very beginning.

I know that but somehow she still half-convinced me that this wasn't the case And that was what I loved about her project. Even if it was all for fame in the end, it was almost like that didn't matter because she and her team were still vomiting out amazing after amazing project, the content of which was enough reason to support her crazy quest for fame and fortune

That was always my pov anyway. I thought she was a mad genius for pairing a what seemed to be genuine artistic fire with super savvy marketing tactics. Now I just see the savvy marketing tactics. So I mean... you're right. Nothing really changed fundamentally. But somehow everything changed anyway But I don't disagree.

23 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

Even during the height of her artistic proclamation with ARTPOP, she was still begging fans to buy Applause multiple times and using a controversial singer on Do What U Want to keep people outraged, entranced and entertained.

Definitely true

23 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

If she truly did only care about the art, she wouldn't have made commercial pop music in the first place. The Fame might have been a different sound for the pop scene at the time, but Gaga still created it with the intention of becoming the biggest pop star in the world. It's not like she was some indie singer like Tori Amos who just happened to become the next Madonna by chance.

But I seriously expected her to ditch all that when she reached the top and just become an alternative musician I understand now that that was super naive of me but she really set up her career like that was always the plan. Grab the attention and then inject all of her avant-garde creativity into the mainstream. But yeah, that really didn't happen. At all.

Which is fine, of course. But she still presented herself as a real artiste who appreciates good quality music and the contrast with her own solo stuff has never been more jarring, 'cause as you say, she only made pop music. Now through all her C2C /ASIB reinvention a lot of people see her as so much more talented and creative, and yet she's still forced to sing her old pop songs live. Because she hasn't developed on her own, only in the public eye... That's interesting but it's also unsatisfying. It's time for her to step up her game.

25 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

We'll have to wait for LG6 to make a judgement about her pop music career. I'm not convinced she enjoys pop music anymore, but she may still surprise us. 

100% agreed.

Thanks for that considerate and interesting reply

[Chromaticunt 5,529]

5 minutes ago, LilyLark said:

Honestly, all pop stars and actors are about the fame to a certain degree in addition to the music/acting/etc.. And that's fine, people need to stop propping them up on some impossible pedestal. Even someone like Christian Bale who people see as the most arty, authentic actor—dude signed on for two comic book series/films. Another example is FKA Twigs, who clearly callas the paparazzi at times and has name dropped her famous past boyfriends in interviews and then acted annoyed when people still ask about them (and I LOVE FKA twigs as much as Gaga). Plus she has done collabs with Nike and Google.

And I'd argue the Polaroid/perfume was more of a money grab—the make up thing, which I am ambivalent about, seems like a business she enjoys and is involved with versus just slapping her name on a product. Is it ultimately a capitalist business venture for making money versus music which is for art and fame? Of course, but so are all the other celebs make up brands/clothing lines/etc.

Yeah, I have come to terms with Haus Labs and I don't think it contradicts what she's said in the past tbh. She is clearly very savvy and business-minded and Haus Labs was inevitable. When you're one of the biggest stars in the world, I don't think it would be easy to turn down the opportunity to make a bucketload of cash after seeing the success of Fenty Beauty. And I don't think we should judge Gaga for taking that route, nor should we think for one second that she wouldn't have taken this route back in 2010 (if celeb make-up brands had been a thing back then). 

[LilyLark 10,074]

3 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

Yeah, I have come to terms with Haus Labs and I don't think it contradicts what she's said in the past tbh. She is clearly very savvy and business-minded and Haus Labs was inevitable. When you're one of the biggest stars in the world, I don't think it would be easy to turn down the opportunity to make a bucketload of cash after seeing the success of Fenty Beauty. And I don't think we should judge Gaga for taking that route, nor should we think for one second that she wouldn't have taken this route back in 2010 (if celeb make-up brands had been a thing back then). 

Yeah. If Gaga starts touting credit cards (please don't come for me, you know who stans...I like that singer, too), I'll roll my eyes a bit more. Or if she takes a dictator's money to perform at a birthday party instead of some wealthy company (the Central Asian games was a bad choice, but at least that was arguably an international sporting event). But I don't necessarily get the big deal about Haus Labs, either.

Like I said, all stars are a bit hypocritical about the fame thing, too, from Gaga to twigs. Even some of us on here are, too, or in real life about certain things. People are inherently a bit paradoxical.

[DonnieDarko 10,186]

If anyone of you will be the same in 10 years from now, then good luck with the rest of life. Growth, life experience, diseases one goes through, money, relationships, basically everything else has a huge impact on our lives and we change. She did also.

[nodandsmile 10,156]

why y'all writing books for???  

[DonnieDarko 10,186]

1 hour ago, Galvon said:

Lol the contrast between these two:

From 2:25 to 3:33 and 8:26 to 9:43 and in part 2  from 0:17 to  0:43

Then this one (almost a decade later!!) from 10:23 to 11:05

 

“Only fools and dead men don't change their minds. Fools won't and dead men can't.”

― John H. Patterson

[Chromaticunt 5,529]

1 minute ago, SimplyTheBest said:

why y'all writing books for???  

It's a discussion forum, mouth breather.

[Galvon 1,868]

12 minutes ago, DonnieDarko said:

“Only fools and dead men don't change their minds. Fools won't and dead men can't.”

― John H. Patterson

Yeah true. I kinda get people tho. Its a bit like that feeling when you discover Santa Clause aint real. (Just a random comparison ) Gaga is real tho, but the superheroe suit sometimes needs a wash, upgrade and Gaga deserves a day off when its needed + you can't expect people to think the same as they did ten years ago. Even if I compare myself to when I was 18 and now almost 23. If you never change even a bit, if you are the same as 10 years ago, then it means you probably haven't experienced very much or you haven't learned a lot from your experiences. Gaga has grown.

[moonboywow 3,136]

Yikes.