Buttigieg: Founders didn’t understand slavery was bad

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

Yikes. Thanks gawd he won't be the nominee and will fade back into irrelevance once this primary is over! 

[Guest]

True. I can understand not understanding how human cruaulty is wrong and evil, because it was in the constitution therefore it must mean it's right. Even if those human beings cried and begged for mercy and they kept whipping them, I think even in those moments when they looked into their eyes and saw pain, it was completely and utterly impossible to know it was wrong, because again it was in the constitution therefore it must've been right. Right? 

Okay let's get out of the way, no more guilt now!

[President Biden 5,898]

15 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

It's not a cute look to be even partly apologetic of slavery. We all know some thought it wasn't wrong. What is he offering to the discussion here by repeating that other than sounding apologetic towards it? 

He’s offering that the issue of slavery was more complex than you’re trying to oversimplify it as. 

[Guest]

Nvm

[derpmonster 22,412]

Just now, Halsey said:

He’s offering that the issue of slavery was more complex than you’re trying to oversimplify it as. 

I'm not simplifying it. He isn't technically wrong but he isn't offering anything new and is sounding like he's offering a justification. He's simply repeating what everyone knows to show how iNtElLiGeNt and nuanced he is and we can see through it. 

You could even tell he was scrambling to come up with an example for what he was saying. 

[Bt1 5,213]

They knew. They didnt knew. People are so sure. I'm not. 

I guess it is wrong to say that everyone didnt knew just like some people here say that everyone knew. These kind of generalizations are so stupid that these days u can only find them in political discussions. 

[I LOVE GGD 1,247]

37 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

 

I don't think he's absolutely wrong right here. The electoral college is actually another proof of how flawed the USA system was and still is till this day.  If the founding fathers were have been "more" aware of the implications not only slavery but segregation then there wouldn't have been a necessity to have civil rights movement. The biggest problem one could have when being patriotic is forgetting that even our heroes are humans and as humans we're destined to be flawed and our thoughts as much as we wish they're millions years ahead they're not or otherwise we wouldn't have the system that rules the world right now.

[derpmonster 22,412]

2 minutes ago, mgmpochhit said:

If the founding fathers were have been "more" aware of the implications not only slavery but segregation then there wouldn't have been a necessity to have civil rights movement.

See that's the basic disagreement. I think they knew the implications. The issue is some were slave owners themselves. Even if they wanted to give up theirs, it wouldn't have been possible to unite all the states if they insisted no one could keep slaves. The Civil War was so violent for a reason. They simply weren't revolutionary enough to want to fight against slavery. 

The US is really just some states tied together with a weak federal union. They couldn't enforce more things on states because one of the biggest principles of the US's founding was states' relative independence. 

What you're saying is if they knew, they would've disallowed slavery. I don't think that's true, simply because they needed to get states to agree to it. 

[PunkTheFunk 125,734]

"In Notes on the State of Virginia, Thomas Jefferson describes the institution of slavery as forcing tyranny and depravity on master and slave alike. To be a slaveholder meant one had to believe that the worst white man was better than the best black man. If you did not believe these things, you could not justify yourself to yourself. So Jefferson could condemn slavery in words, but not in deeds."

"He ignored the words of his fellow revolutionary John Adams, who said that the Revolution would never be complete until the slaves were free"

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/founding-fathers-and-slaveholders-72262393/

They knew slavery was wrong, but profited too much off of it to care.

[Ziggy 14,302]

I’m confused how this makes him look bad. It’s true. They didn’t understand it was bad. Now why that is is because of systemic racism which they upheld but that doesn’t negate his point, really. This seems like a non statement. This just seems like something someone dredged up to pick on him with but the actual content itself is kind of a nothingburger. He’s had worse gaffes. This is just stating the obvious. The nobility of the time didn’t regard slaves as full and equal humans; I would say that qualifies as “didn’t understand that racism was bad”. Sure, you can say it might be putting it lightly, but the statement itself is not incorrect. The nobility weren’t twirling their mustaches knowing this sh** was evil and doing it anyway. They actually believed in this. The definition of harmful ignorance.

[I LOVE GGD 1,247]

35 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

See that's the basic disagreement. I think they knew the implications. The issue is some were slave owners themselves. Even if they wanted to give up theirs, it wouldn't have been possible to unite all the states if they insisted no one could keep slaves. The Civil War was so violent for a reason. They simply weren't revolutionary enough to want to fight against slavery. 

The US is really just some states tied together with a weak federal union. They couldn't enforce more things on states because one of the biggest principles of the US's founding was states' relative independence. 

What you're saying is if they knew, they would've disallowed slavery. I don't think that's true, simply because they needed to get states to agree to it. 

We have to agree to disagree on this one. That's precisely what I am saying. What was the point of unity (of the states) when they knew there would be a huge inequality? They created a system that up until this day only works for a very very very few.

[derpmonster 22,412]

24 minutes ago, mgmpochhit said:

We have to agree to disagree on this one. That's precisely what I am saying. What was the point of unity (of the states) when they knew there would be a huge inequality? They created a system that up until this day only works for a very very very few.

And they knew what they were doing. A textbook I used explained the founding of the US on three principles: classical liberalism, classical republicanism, and inegalitarianism. The inequality is by design. They knew it's a system that only works for an elite and they built it knowing that. The ideals of "US was envisioned as a perfect equal country" propaganda that's taught to young children and believed commonly is simply false. 

Case in point: Only white men with property were allowed to vote. Even poor whites were not even given the right to vote. Clearly framers were more than okay with that intentional inequality. Native Americans weren't given citizenship. Only whites were allowed to immigrate. From the very beginning. All by design.

When they said "all men are created equal", they meant "all white men" - they thought they didn't have to specify that because it would be redundant. Thank God for that mistake. 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

 

[I LOVE GGD 1,247]

14 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

And they knew what they were doing. A textbook I used explained the founding of the US on three principles: classical liberalism, classical republicanism, and inegalitarianism. The inequality is by design. They knew it's a system that only works for an elite and they built it knowing that. The ideals of "US was envisioned as a perfect equal country" propaganda that's taught to young children and believed commonly is simply false. 

Case in point: Only white men with property were allowed to vote. Even poor whites were not even given the right to vote. Clearly framers were more than okay with that intentional inequality. Native Americans weren't given citizenship. Only whites were allowed to immigrate. From the very beginning. All by design.

When they said "all men are created equal", they meant "all white men" - they thought they didn't have to specify that because it would be redundant. Thank God for that mistake. 

😘😘😘

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

Yikes.

Even if he believes this, its not something you should say probably.