Hillary on Bernie: "He hurt me"

[Jill 31,812]

1 hour ago, farting said:

You lost to a black man

I hope you didn't mean this in a derogatory way 

[Emvee 8,831]

23 hours ago, Arturo said:

I was never against Bernie primarying her. Regardless of party and period in American history, competitive primaries have ALWAYS led to the eventual nominee being damaged and the party being divided in varying degrees depending on the primary in question. 2016 was on the farther end of that spectrum.

I think you’re reading too much into my comment. Even leftists who hate Hillary have to admit that his primary challenge damaged her. Isn’t that the whole point of him challenging her? To point out the differences in their policies and prove why he is a better choice for democratic voters. I don’t know how you misconstrued my statement into “Bernie bad!!! Hillary should have been HANDED the nom”

Nope. His campaign hurt hers. Her campaign hurt his and the party would have been just as divided if he won. You know moderate voters would have stayed home/voted 3rd party had he won. 

Also I’m voting for Bernie, not that it’s any of your business, so you can cut the superiority complex and claims of my “ignorance”.

Hillary vs. Obama was an extremely competitive primary. So much so that more Bernie Supporters voted for Hillary in 2016 than Hillary supporters voted for Obama in 2008.

She “damaged” him and Obama won anyway because he feigned rhetoric of change and campaigned as a progressive.  Hillary learned nothing from the challenge she received from the left and continued to campaign on incremental change and identity politics. 

The whole idea that Hillary has everything else to blame but herself and her policies is predicated on a 2D view of the entire situation. Why do republican voters hate her so much and why were democratic voters in the rust belt not excited enough to turn out for her? Why did an outsider candidate win the republican primary against a name brand like Jeb Bush? Why DID the democratic primary divide democrats so much and why wasn’t Hillary wise enough to see that divide as red flag? Because the red flag called for a change in who she is fundamentally as a politician. And despite Bernie wasting political capital on campaigning for her in key states like Michigan while she was at big dollar fund raisers, the stage was set for a populist the win in 2016. Unfortunately the only populist in the race was Donald Trump. 
 

You voting for Bernie does not negate the fact that you have a wrong analysis on the causes, voter motivations, and results of the 2016 election. Say I have a superiority complex if it makes you feel better, but there are clear rights and wrongs here and I have every right to point out that your analysis is wrong. 
 

And, listen, I’m not calling you ignorant because I hate you or whatever. I don’t know you lol. In actuality, JUST voting for Bernie isn’t going to fundamentally change the issues that hold us back as a society. It’s something that only just recently clicked for me personally, so I recognize that I shouldn’t hold you to the standard of already magically knowing all of this.

[MJHolland 12,725]

On 12/5/2019 at 1:41 PM, Morphine Prince said:

I wonder when she’ll blame her own campaign for their disastrous non-campaigning in Michigan and other places. 

It’s easier to blame everyone and everything else.

 

Broooo 

She didn't say that's why she lost 

She's saying that it hurt her campaign. Bernie's pettiness after handily losing was a contributing factor to Hillary losing in the general and Trump being elected president.

It was not the main factor. No one said it was the main factor. But it is undeniably A factor. 

[Guillaume Hamon 6,992]

6 hours ago, MJHolland said:

Broooo 

She didn't say that's why she lost 

She's saying that it hurt her campaign.

The thing is she always seem to blame a long list of persons and events more than she blames herself for 2016 even if the main reasons of her defeat were internal to her campaign.

That's like a manager having a failing vision for his team and who lost a contract essentially because of  that. If he blames his team mates more than himself it will never be well-received by them while if he doesn't seem to overly deflect the blame on others they'll be fine with hearing they were wrong for this or that.  

.

[PunkTheFunk 125,703]

On 12/6/2019 at 2:53 PM, farting said:

You lost to a black man & a reality star. Surprise, it's not Bernie, it's you! 

What a racist thing to say

[Notget 502]

2020 will be a cluster again me thinks. Do we have to wait until 2024 when stuff settles (if it settles)?

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

Found this gem  Knew it existed somewhere.

She's really quite something isn't she  

It isn't about whether *on some level* it hurt purely her campaign, or if it was just a small contributing factor.(Which btw, is really not something you can prove at all, Bernie Sanders supporters were sometimes fundamentally opposed to her Policy wise and her as a person, so marinating on her may not have made them vote for her anyway  We just know exit polling and stuff like that and make assumptions )
It's the point that she knows making this kind of statement is signaling to her supporters (and the Democratic establishment) that they should see Bernie as some kind of disrupter of the Democratic party meant to divide people, hurt the party, and cause damage, even though politically his politics is exactly where the party is moving towards. Even if Bernie loses the primary (love that she assumed he would here  ) Medicare For All is going to be an idea with us for the majority of our lives, free college tuition, $15 minimum wage, a green new deal*, eventually national rent control, and even a universal basic income... Those are going to be the ideas and platforms that define the Democratic underbelly of support for years to come. It's already dominating most of the discussion in the debates and thats for a reason. Everyone in this primary is playing by the Bernie standard, not what Hillary ran on in 2016, or what Joe is running on now, or what Pete is running on now. Progressive politics are the future.

The "party" (literally the people in Washington and their donors) is not there, but the people are, and the Democratic party ignoring that ignores it at their own peril. They'll likely hand Trump a win again if they do. I know some upper echelon people in the DNC are absolutely furious that Bernie even suggested these ideas, because they didn't want to fight for them before because they are weak politicians,  but they should gtfo tbh.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

Bernie has divided this party so much.

16 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

The thing is she always seem to blame a long list of persons and events more than she blames herself for 2016 even if the main reasons of her defeat were internal to her campaign.

That's like a manager having a failing vision for his team and who lost a contract essentially because of  that. If he blames his team mates more than himself it will never be well-received by them while if he doesn't seem to overly deflect the blame on others they'll be fine with hearing they were wrong for this or that.  

.

Really because Bernie never blames anyone for his losses. He is definitely the better one who takes the high road instead of pointing fingers. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

16 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

The thing is she always seem to blame a long list of persons and events more than she blames herself for 2016 even if the main reasons of her defeat were internal to her campaign.

That's like a manager having a failing vision for his team and who lost a contract essentially because of  that. If he blames his team mates more than himself it will never be well-received by them while if he doesn't seem to overly deflect the blame on others they'll be fine with hearing they were wrong for this or that.  

.

Totally fair. The onus is on her, and ultimately she is responsible for her campaign and performance.

That doesn't mean there were a ton of thing outside the campaign's control that hurt her chances. Bernie being a sore loser, Russia promoting anti-Clinton content with bots and foreign influence, the stupid f*cking email "scandal", and half the country deciding that a deranged bigot would make a good president, etc. 

In my opinion, Hillary had a good strategy overall considering she had millions more votes cast for her compared to Trump. When it comes down to a few thousand votes in a few states that every thought were on lock, I think it's also fair to try to parse out the little thing that everyone could have done differently.  

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

54 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Bernie has divided this party so much.

Really because Bernie never blames anyone for his losses. He is definitely the better one who takes the high road instead of pointing fingers. 

Lol.

If the *party* is supposed to go along with corruption, ineffective governance, and corporatism then some people will naturally be opposed to that, no? Is that the division you are referring to?  The fact that some people had very legitimate reasons to dislike Hillary Clinton as a politican and potential president? Or to even just *prefer* someone else? Bernie has done a lot more to energize voters and inspire an entire new generation of potential voters than Hillary did, or the Democratic Establishment in general. If anything, THEY are being divisive for absolutely refusing to take these things that millions and millions of people want as seriously as they should. The current M.O of centrism DEPRESSES votes, not encourages them.

Democrats are not Republicans. We don't just get in line if we oppose someone, and thats a good thing in general. It should be like that everywhere, but it isnt unfortunately. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

2 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Bernie has divided this party so much.

Really because Bernie never blames anyone for his losses. He is definitely the better one who takes the high road instead of pointing fingers. 

Or it could be simply that there is a generational difference in terms of worldview & now that millennials are finally voting and bc gen Z is as if not more progressive than millennials, the progressive wing of the party is ready to tell the boomer class that the 90s called and want their policies back. 

Also, it’s totally ironic that in a thread where the debate is that Hillary continues to place blame onto others that you continue to blame Bernie for everything. He would have never done so well in the primary if he didn’t speak to the needs and values of the people who voted for him over Hillary. 

[Guillaume Hamon 6,992]

8 hours ago, MJHolland said:

In my opinion, Hillary had a good strategy overall considering she had millions more votes cast for her compared to Trump.

Well, to me Trump was supposed to be easy to defeat since he was so divisive, deemed not trustworthy by 2/3 of american folks, having no experience for the job, having his fair share of sexist/racist/ rumors of mob-association scandals in his past and so on and on...

So maybe I exaggerate but imo her having 2 millions more votes is not so impressive seing her competition there.

To me even an okay campaign could have defeat him. Or maybe even the same campaign but done by an other dem who wasn't also deemed not trustworthy by 2/3 of the american people like HRC was. We'll never know for sure. 

8 hours ago, MJHolland said:

When it comes down to a few thousand votes in a few states that every thought were on lock, I think it's also fair to try to parse out the little thing that everyone could have done differently.  

True and fair point.

8 hours ago, MJHolland said:

That doesn't mean there were a ton of thing outside the campaign's control that hurt her chances. Bernie being a sore loser, Russia promoting anti-Clinton content with bots and foreign influence, the stupid f*cking email "scandal",

Was Bernie really a sore loser? He made 39 rallies to support her afterwards, HRC didn't do that for Obama when she lost to him.

Also if he was only there to say "we must avoid Trump" I would get that some people see that as a weak support but he said he was proud to be on her stage, complimented her on bills she helped passing/ her activism and said that having her elected was a necessity etc.

Knowing the DNC rigged it against him he could have been way more bitter than that. Also when you add HRC officially giving the finger to "his side" of the dems by having Tim Kaine who wasn't a "progressives grabber" at all as a VP...

 I think it's fair to say he was pretty invested for helping her seing the overall shady situation.  

8 hours ago, MJHolland said:

and half the country deciding that a deranged bigot would make a good president, etc. 

He got 46% of the 58% of US citizens who voted so thanks God that's less than half the country believing in him lol.  That's the sad thing, many who didn't oppose him weren't even thinking he would be "a good president" but thought having HRC wasn't any better.  

[Guillaume Hamon 6,992]

9 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Really because Bernie never blames anyone for his losses. He is definitely the better one who takes the high road instead of pointing fingers. 

Give us these examples of sanders unfairly blaming others or exaggerating their responsibilities then?  

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

3 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Give us these examples of sanders unfairly blaming others or exaggerating their responsibilities then?  

Should I start with the Veterans Administration fiasco where he blamed the Koch brothers for negative reporting or something more recent. 

There is plenty of times Bernie blames other for his short comings. Google is your friend, look it up.

[Guillaume Hamon 6,992]

8 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Should I start with the Veterans Administration fiasco where he blamed the Koch brothers for negative reporting or something more recent. 

Sorry you talk about the time he blamed the koch brothers for wanting to privatize it?  Or you meant he accused them of being responsible for "negative reporting" about him? Cause if he accuses them of having a plan about the VA it's not about rejecting the blame for his "short coming".

8 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

There is plenty of times Bernie blames other for his short comings. Google is your friend, look it up.

Well it's the one who affirm something who has to prove what he affirms. If there are so many examples as you say I bet you can name quite a lot here without telling others.