Baby Kept On Vegan Diet Died. Vegan parents Arrested.

[Economy 52,838]

1 hour ago, rasclautmangos said:

They just didn't feed that poor child enough period. I don't think veganism is really the issue.

It depends. The article doesn't give us enough information for us to know so were left speculating

 

It's possible he was simply underfed as u said

 

But I wouldn't shrug off the possibility of vegan diet being the problem

 

As I said above, it's much easier to be missing key nutrients when going vegan if you don't know enough about what your doing and know which foods u must include

 

A baby under rapid development would be even more in danger of issues of malnutrition

 

Some things high in protein for example in a vegan diet like legumes (beans, chickpeas, lentils etc) or nuts aren't always the easiest things for very young to digest and absorb the nutrients properly but even worse the parents may not have fed enough of this stuff at all

 

I'm not saying u can't be healthy on a vegan diet but I'm saying it's easy to be malnurished on it if you don't know what ur doing. And if a baby was not being fed enough variety, he would be more fragile health wise than his parents because he was still in a phase of rapid growth

[derpmonster 22,412]

37 minutes ago, Phlop said:

My sister almost died from being a vegan. She didn’t have enough protein in her body to fight the flu and was in the hospital for over a month.

I-

This sounds like something they made up to tell y'all. I'm sorry for your sister and I hope she's eating healthily now.

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

It depends. The article doesn't give us enough information for us to know so were left speculating

 

It's possible he was simply underfed as u said

 

But I wouldn't shrug off the possibility of vegan diet being the problem

 

As I said above, it's much easier to be missing key nutrients when going vegan if you don't know enough about what your doing and know which foods u must include

 

A baby under rapid development would be even more in danger of issues of malnutrition

 

Some things high in protein for example in a vegan diet like legumes (beans, chickpeas, lentils etc) or nuts aren't always the easiest things for very young to digest and absorb the nutrients properly but even worse the parents may not have fed enough of this stuff at all

 

I'm not saying u can't be healthy on a vegan diet but I'm saying it's easy to be malnurished on it if you don't know what ur doing. And if a baby was not being fed enough variety, he would be more fragile health wise than his parents because he was still in a phase of rapid growth

I hear you but the truth is most baby diets don't have much meat in them anyway.  What do people feed babies in Canada when they're under 2?

I feel like the child was too young to even have been a regular meat eater. The parents only feed three things and those are not nutritious at all. That's what caused the issue. 

[Economy 52,838]

9 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

I hear you but the truth is most baby diets don't have much meat in them anyway.  What do people feed babies in Canada when they're under 2?

I feel like the child was too young to even have been a regular meat eater. The parents only feed three things and those are not nutritious at all. That's what caused the issue. 

Yeah... If he was fed enough breast milk along with it... I'd say the vegan diet alone wouldn't cause death... It might reduce some key nutrients if they didn't do it properly but they'd still have to probably be under feeding him for this to happen

 

Unless the milk portion of his diet was small and the vegan portion was insufficient or poorly planned. Again it's so hard to truly know without more information

 

As for here in Canada they recommend breast feeding bare minimum at least 12 months but by 6 months your suppusto start including a bit of solid food to supplement the milk

 

But there's a lot of foods they don't recommend before 2-3 years. And among that list is stuff like nuts (one of the few vegan foods that contains a fair bit of protein) because it's harsh food for young ones and can not only increase the risk of developing allergies to it but also it's unclear how well they are even able to digest it and absorb all its nutrients. Same goes for legumes

 

If he wasn't being fed enough milk, it's possible the vegan diet on the side just wasn't enough. But the article doesnt tell us how much his milk portion of the diet was, only that it included breast milk

 

Ppl are arguing hard on this thread but the article simply doesn't give us enough info to conclude that the issue was or wasn't the vegan diet... It's also possible that it's somewhere in between and it played a role but wasn't the sole issue.

 

Not going to the doctor certainly was part of the problem too. If the parents insisted on a vegan diet but they saw he was undernourished... The doctors could potentially have given them options to assist like supplements that are safe for babies or even suggestions on how to diversity the vegan diet to make sure it was covering ALL across the board nutrition

 

Without going to the doctor... They couldn't have gotten that advice

 

I get that ppl have moral reasons for wanting to be vegan. But u really need to do your research on a safe way of doing it and what variety you need to include to make sure you have all your nutrition especially if your gonna put a baby who's more vulnerable on it

 

I've met vegans who look perfectly healthy but I've also many many who look sickly and seriously underweight. It's very easy to screw it up without the proper knowledge

[OBEY 57,109]

3 hours ago, xoxo Craig said:

Vegan diets are horrific, deadly and really unhealthy... poor child, hope the parents get locked away and stopped from breeding.

The ignorance, my cousin is vegan and she's like healthier than me and everyone I know she sees a doctor regularly and misses nothing in her vitamins etc. 

[doppelganger 4,019]

The baby needs carbs and fats. Feeding the baby just sugar from fruits .... Is just irresponsible. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

30 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

Sis you've been given sources numerous times and yet you ignore them. All you say is "no you're wrong" without backing it up. 

Sometimes "common sense ideas" turn out to be wrong. All evidence suggests meat was a treat, not the staple. 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/08/world-s-first-animal-was-probably-carnivore

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/12/23/how-humans-evolved-to-be-natural-omnivores/

(Omnivore, a being that eats both plants and meats... but more meat than plants)

 

http://theconversation.com/our-ancestors-were-carnivorous-super-predators-so-do-we-really-have-a-choice-about-eating-meat-62272

 

https://medium.com/@kevinmpm/we-are-carnivores-3b06bff8cfb0

 

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1873127/cancerous-price-pay-changing-meat-we-eat

(Our species, homo sapiens, are clearly meant to eat meat. Inside our mouths we have canine teeth, albeit not so sharp; we have the binocular vision of a predator; and we have only one stomach to process our food, unlike the four stomachs of cows and some other grass eaters.)  the article talks about how its PROCESSED meats that cause cancer but meat is essential and we are supposed to eat it

 

https://www.quora.com/Are-humans-technically-carnivores-or-omnivores

https://amp.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/comments/aw82ck/humans_are_carnivores/

 

https://ketogenicendurance.com/2018/06/22/carnivore-diet-are-humans-carnivores/

 

Meat was not a treat... meat was our essential diet. Plant matter was only used if we needed it, and/or treat. Infact, the eskimos still eat raw meat and no plant matter because plants don't grow in the arctic... are they in bad health? No. Plus, there are many native tribes across the world that still hunt for meat, and they aren't coming down with major health issues. 

Spoiler

 

[Debithius 6,056]

3 hours ago, goods said:

I've gone fully vegan recently and I'm certain that it's not vegan diet that killed this poor baby. Stop feeding into stigma!

Babies need different things than we in their early stage in life. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

3 minutes ago, OBEY said:

The ignorance, my cousin is vegan and she's like healthier than me and everyone I know she sees a doctor regularly and misses nothing in her vitamins etc. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/red-table-talk-jada-pinkett-intervention-jaden-will-smith-vegan-a9117746.html#:~:targetText=In the latest episode of,enough protein%2C” she explained.

[OBEY 57,109]

3 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/red-table-talk-jada-pinkett-intervention-jaden-will-smith-vegan-a9117746.html#:~:targetText=In the latest episode of,enough protein%2C” she explained.

Well of course if you don't inform yourself and nourish yourself the right way it will be bad for your health. If you do the vegan diet right, like my cousin, who sees her doctor once a year and is NOT protein deficient and doesn't miss ANYTHING, it's totally good and you're healthy. 

[Economy 52,838]

3 hours ago, March34th said:

it's obviously tragic that the child died, but we do not need anymore unnecessary disrespect and ridicule of the vegan community.

I'll do damage control for those attacking vegans, so please be aware that a balanced vegan diet (free of animal products or by products such as meat, eggs, milk, gelatin and honey) is acceptable and can be adaptable for all ages of the human life cycle including infancy. Vegans are not abusive for  raising children with a vegan diet.

Stop blaming veganism as a whole, aka a diet which has been proven time and time again to be one of the healthiest diets to adopt and the diet that affects the environment the least in regards to land cultivation or greenhouse emissions (fun fact: most soy production is used to feed cattle). Read the article and you'll see that this child was only fed breast milk and the parents were raw vegans who only ate fresh fruits and vegetables (a healthy balanced vegan diet should include a wide variety of foods, not just fruits and vegetables. most foods are vegan if you look at what's available)

And if anyone needs sources for my claims feel free to ask me. Been vegan and a vegan activist for over a year and a half and i know the tea and love to educate.

tl;dr: Let's just please be respectful of others and do our research and focus on the point of this post - these parents were shitty people clearly. rest in peace to the child, it breaks my heart that this happened.

 

 

3 hours ago, xoxo Craig said:

Is it really ignorance when vegans get defensive over their unhealthy diet, force it down peoples throats, and now we have cases where parents are forcing their children on this diet and/or pets like dogs on this diet? 

Look not only have I been interested in health and nutrition for years but now studying to be a personal trainer I'm getting entire units on macros as well

 

It is possible to get ALL your nutrition without animal products. All the nutrients that exist in animals also exist in vegetation of one type or another (animal products could not contain it in the first place without ingesting it and metabolizing it)

 

However what I will say is that to be a healthy vegan takes some work, effort and knowledge. 

 

It's easier to be undernourished if your food options are reduced and you do need to know what ur doing and what stuff u must include to make sure ur getting everything

 

Also like @March34th said, u really need that variety. If you don't eat grains that's an issue. Meat and milk for example are high in B vitamins... But so are grains and bread for example (some of that is due to fortification but it's there regardless). If u only eat fruits and vegetables, u may not get enough B vitamins

 

Protein is high in stuff like legumes, nuts and mushrooms... There's also always the option of tofu or vegan protein powders. But u need to make sure u include at least a few things like this. If not a vegan could easily have insufficient protein.

 

You CAN be healthy being a vegan but u need to understand what foods have what so that you get all across the board nutrition. If you go into it without proper knowledge I think it's potentially dangerous

 

Ive met healthy looking vegans but also very scrawny and sickly looking ones too. To me that's proof some people aren't doing veganism correctly or in a safe way

[Hyoha 1,633]

To those defending vegan diets for children: have you read the entire piece?

"The O'Learys have two other children together, ages 3 and 5, whom police saw at their residence in September. One had blackened and decaying teeth, the News-Press reported, at both were extremely malnourished, weighing under the third percentile for their age groups."

Please take your children to the ****ing doctor and feed them what they are supposed to be fed.

Becoming vegan should be a conscious choice as an adult. There are numerous studies that show a clear improvement in health and even intelligence in children who eat meat and eggs, drink milk, etc.

Example: https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/137/4/1119/4664672

[Ziggy 14,009]

4 hours ago, goods said:

I've gone fully vegan recently and I'm certain that it's not vegan diet that killed this poor baby. Stop feeding into stigma!

Ok but the child was drastically undernourished because they hadn't visited a doctor. The two are linked. A sloppy vegan diet that was ill-administered. Undernourished because they didn't do vegan properly, and it led to it eventually dying because they hadn't had a doctor inform them that their diet was killing their kid.

 

So veganism isn't the culprit, but it is the mechanism by which these parents' stupidity led to their child's death.

 

That also leaves out that you should let a child decide for themselves how they will eat when they can, but until such a choice can be made, you consult a doctor on what's best for your kid.

[Economy 52,838]

4 minutes ago, Hyoha said:

To those defending vegan diets for children: have you read the entire piece?

"The O'Learys have two other children together, ages 3 and 5, whom police saw at their residence in September. One had blackened and decaying teeth, the News-Press reported, at both were extremely malnourished, weighing under the third percentile for their age groups."

Please take your children to the ****ing doctor and feed them what they are supposed to be fed.

Becoming vegan should be a conscious choice as an adult. There are numerous studies that show a clear improvement in health and even intelligence in children who eat meat and eggs, drink milk, etc.

Example: https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/137/4/1119/4664672

Well if it's from the same parents that let their baby die... I'm not surprised their older kids aren't healthy either

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, OBEY said:

Well of course if you don't inform yourself and nourish yourself the right way it will be bad for your health. If you do the vegan diet right, like my cousin, who sees her doctor once a year and is NOT protein deficient and doesn't miss ANYTHING, it's totally good and you're healthy. 

Okay... well only time will tell, but I have seen a number of vegans myself returning to eating meat because they became so unwell on the Vegan diet. The vegan diet may not effect people right way but after, 5 or 10 years on the vegan diet, you'll notoce some common signs of vitamin deficiency and other health issues.

I have been eating stricly meat, so has my brother and my mother.  My mother has had severe migraines that leave her with stroke like symptoms. She has problems with her digestion too... literally 3 weeks into a carnivore diet, all those problems were suddenly reduced and she is living with a better quality of life. Before she tried a vegetarian diet... but it made everything worse. Look up oxilates and what they do to the body... main cause of arthritis, and found in plant material