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Elizabeth Warren is now leading the 2020 polls

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Morphine Prince

I sure hope people voting 3rd party don't live in swing states...

The friends I've had to bury, they keep me up at night
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SEANGT
2 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

Just to clarify, I'm voting for Warren if she's the nominee. I'm going to fight like hell to see Sanders get it before that point and to ensure that Sanders is her VP if she does end up the nominee, but if she gets it, I'm voting for her. 

Honestly I could still be persuaded to vote for bernie in the primary. I'm happy to see this kind of attitude from bernie supporters. 

 

23 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-2020.html

You're also correct. She was never going to get my vote. Because her political stances and her actions do not align with my values. I'm allowed to voice that opinion. 

 

@SEANGT - I will vote in my democratic primary for Sanders. If Sanders is not the nominee, I will be either writing in or voting Green party. The Democratic party continues to try to subdue the progressive wing of the party and then cry for unity in order to defeat the ugly republicans. IF you always come back to the party to vote for the candidate they choose for you, then the changes you want to see will never be implemented. The two party system has not benefited the working class of this country for decades. I'm not going to vote blue no matter who. I'm going to vote based on my values. 

I can't imagine a third party candidate or anyone you could write in having values closer to Bernie than Warren. I just don't think you're looking at Warren ... correctly. I hope you'll continue to re-evaluate as time goes on. 

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HorusRa2
3 minutes ago, SEANGT said:

Honestly I could still be persuaded to vote for bernie in the primary. I'm happy to see this kind of attitude from bernie supporters. 

 

I can't imagine a third party candidate or anyone you could write in having values closer to Bernie than Warren. I just don't think you're looking at Warren ... correctly. I hope you'll continue to re-evaluate as time goes on. 

Last thought on this and I'll see my way out of this thread. Elizabeth Warren has good political instincts, but frequently doubles down on the wrong stance for some unknown reason. If we took Bernie out of the equation and just talked about the rest of the field, Warren is very progressive on domestic policy compared to the rest but for all her talk of being a fighter, she doesn't seem very grounded by her principles in my view. I do very much worry about Warren as commander in chief though because she has yet to present a foreign policy vision to us. All we have to go on is her senate voting record and that record is problematic. Even Bernie's foreign policy record isn't the best when you look at my beliefs and values, but his is better in that regard.

 

I had higher opinions of Warren at the beginning of this priimary, but as time has went on, I have began to dislike her and find more and more reasons not to be enamored with her. I could very well change my mind about Warren once we get into a general election scenario, but at this point I'm going to continue to push for Sanders and would need to see some real evidence that the behavior I indicated below was going to stop & that I could trust Warren at her word. 

Example:

November 3 2017:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc-rigged/index.html 

November 9 2017

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/359645-warren-walks-back-claim-democratic-primary-was-rigged

 

Medicare for All : She has moved on medicare for all a lot. She was for it and then she said there many paths to get there. Then she said on the debate stage she wanted to eliminate private insurance. But then after that she's called medicare for all a framework without all the details when it is a 100 page comprehensive bill with details. 

 

Then you have her comments on Biden & Ukraine 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/elizabeth-warren-dismisses-biden-corruption-allegations-what-happened-in-ukraine-is-about-donald-trump/

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SEANGT
13 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Last thought on this and I'll see my way out of this thread. Elizabeth Warren has good political instincts, but frequently doubles down on the wrong stance for some unknown reason. If we took Bernie out of the equation and just talked about the rest of the field, Warren is very progressive on domestic policy compared to the rest but for all her talk of being a fighter, she doesn't seem very grounded by her principles in my view. I do very much worry about Warren as commander in chief though because she has yet to present a foreign policy vision to us. All we have to go on is her senate voting record and that record is problematic. Even Bernie's foreign policy record isn't the best when you look at my beliefs and values, but his is better in that regard.

 

I had higher opinions of Warren at the beginning of this priimary, but as time has went on, I have began to dislike her and find more and more reasons not to be enamored with her. I could very well change my mind about Warren once we get into a general election scenario, but at this point I'm going to continue to push for Sanders and would need to see some real evidence that the behavior I indicated below was going to stop & that I could trust Warren at her word. 

Example:

November 3 2017:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc-rigged/index.html 

November 9 2017

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/359645-warren-walks-back-claim-democratic-primary-was-rigged

 

Medicare for All : She has moved on medicare for all a lot. She was for it and then she said there many paths to get there. Then she said on the debate stage she wanted to eliminate private insurance. But then after that she's called medicare for all a framework without all the details when it is a 100 page comprehensive bill with details. 

 

Then you have her comments on Biden & Ukraine 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/elizabeth-warren-dismisses-biden-corruption-allegations-what-happened-in-ukraine-is-about-donald-trump/

That I can understand. I do see that sometimes being on the spot has been troubling for her, but I feel like she's gotten better at choosing her words lately. We'll just have to see. I look forward to more foreign policy from all the candidates.

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JusKeepBreathin

I'm so bored with the argument that the media is somehow against Bernie.

Bernie had a freaking heart attack and it wasn't even on the news for a complete news cycle. Meanwhile Hillary was in the news for weeks for having a bad cough. 

Y'all don't get to play the victim for this. There is absolutely no way the media has had the kind of malevolent bias towards Bernie that it did towards Hilary. 

Bernie is tanking his own campaign. Yesterday he was interviewed and he said he wouldn't be doing four campaign rallies and multiple meetings a day he would cut it down.

My thoughts were, oh ok, now I understand why his campaign staffers are upset that they are being worked to the bone with no overtime. He just said why on TV.  How can you guys support this anti-capitalist candidate if he uses the same exact tactics as capitalists corporations to exploit his own campaign workers?

It's just mind boggling. I'm just trying to understand.

 

Edited by JusKeepBreathin
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King Jr.
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malazam
3 hours ago, ThatBinch said:

How so? It will hardly reflect well on his campaign. It would just expose the complicity of Republicans protecting a criminal over their country. But maybe there's something else I'm not considering.

"They didn't impeach me. They found nothing. Couldn't find a thing! I'm the greatest president in history. #MAGA"

:trollga:

What comes out from that investigation will lead to nothing if he's not impeached.

Edited by malazam
another shot before we kiss the other side

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SEANGT
1 minute ago, malazam said:

"They didn't impeach me. They found nothing. Couldn't find a thing! I'm the greatest president in history. #MAGA"

:trollga:

What comes out from that investigation will lead to nothing if he's not impeached.

It's already swaying public opinion away from his favor. 

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thedirtymonster

Bernie. Sanders. Is. A. Socialist. Once. And. For. All.

Thank you for listening.

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AllThingsGaga

Biden had a chance to close this primary but his almost daily blunders hurt him. The movement to E. Warren means that he'll probably never get the nomination. Sanders voters will likely vote for Elizabeth over Biden. Even after his vice presidency, Biden does some cringe worthy things that make me lose faith in his campaign and him, as a person. I'm cool with E. Warren going forward. She's a very strong candidate and her knowledge of policy is incredible.

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HorusRa2
3 hours ago, thedirtymonster said:

Bernie. Sanders. Is. A. Socialist. Once. And. For. All.

Thank you for listening.

You misspelled Democratic Socialist. 

Just trying to help. 

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luckyanderson
9 hours ago, Halsey said:

No, not really.

 

Massachusetts Senators have terrible reputation for losing Presidential elections. Dukakis in 88, Kerry in 04. They are out of touch with middle America and the South. Warren is an extremist that alienates older voters and has a meh showing with African American voters. 

 

3-4 candidates that are could win. Biden, Harris, Gabbard of Bullock. Two of them have a .001% chance at winning the primary. It’s gonna be Joe/Kamala as a tickrt

..."the way I sat there and looked at the phone." Did you see the first debate? Do you see how unpopular Biden and Harris have become?

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luckyanderson
6 hours ago, Redstreak said:

Apparently what also ain't sticking to him is primary voters

 

told you so i give up GIF

The primary has started? Who won New Hampshire?

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ItsTommyBitch
6 hours ago, Economy said:

I really dont get the issue with big donnor money anyway

if your rich... does that mean u cannot have political opinions and support them with your means?

a person being rich does not automatically mean they are bad or corruptly motivated just like not all people of modest means are saints

Look at Bill Gates and the stuff he got involved in Africa to help with Polio and the sanation crisis which he not only spent Billions of his own wealth on but also personal time putting his brain to work to try to come up with solutions

He didnt even seek media coverage as a lot of this stuff the media found out more about only after he had already been spending time on

my point is rich people can donate simply to make a positive difference. Not all are trying to secure a candidate to keep their taxes low

I think this is a bit naive.

The majority of "big donor money" is not coming from the few good faith millionaires and billionaires who want to improve the planet and have their voice heard at the same time, its coming from large corporations who invest into polluting our planet, halting infrastructure, de-regulating businesses, continuing to avoid taxes, and allowing themselves more and more loopholes to concentrate wealth. Theres an implicit hypocrisy in campaign donations that don't limit corporate interests, because the  core argument behind a cap on personal donations (@ $2800, which is already more than the average person can give by far lol) is "why should someone wealthy be allowed more say in our government than anyone else? If they can give infinitely, they can control elections" --- but then Citizens United happened anyway, so we live in a weird position atm.

The problem is that these wealthy people, despite being a minority, have vastly undue influence on the political system. Making businesses and corporations "people" in terms of donations and PACs lets just 2 or 3 billionaires decide the major parts of policy or most of the policy for the senator, representative, president, any elected official they decide to support on specific issues. No individual donations can compete, the power and wealth they have makes this essentially legalized bribery - for people all across the political spectrum.

Democrats may not agree with this system, but if they want to "fight the good fight" and get elected to actually represent their people, they usually HAVE to take corporate money in order to fight their blatantly corporate supported republican opponents, and this means compromising values, policy, goals, etc. President Obama believed in a single payer health care system, he was a populist candidate he had massive political support AND financial support, and unfortunately because of the money he took in his campaigns he was pressured into hiring people to surround him who had ties in industry, corporations, etc. and this muddied the waters of the things he ran on. He himself was a lot more left leaning then what he was able to accomplish because he took corporate money. It's bribery because even if they dont explicitly say "vote Yes on Fracking" (and don't get me wrong, sometimes they do there are meetings on record) you can expect to lose a sizeable chunk of your fundraising, donations, etc. next election and possibly lose. They might even support your opponent It's a system rich people and lobbyists play that FUNDAMENTALLY undermines the intentions of democracy. The vast majority of people's political interests are ignored entirely in the name of the few. Thats why Democrats taking money in the general from big donors is bad, it means they will not be beholden to the people that voted for them, the people who voted for them to represent them... instead they will be beholden to people who paid for them to get elected.  

I think the Gates are somewhat responsible rich people, and if I can give them any credit, they arent super vocal about it because its like saying "not all men" or "not all white people" - they know that the Vast majority of influence from rich people in America is unhealthy, and there's no reason to detract from this important conversation with "hey! we're not all evil!" - that helps no one tangibly and it could also be seen as cruel or missing the point. Idk about Bill, but Melinda Gates is very aware of this and is tact for that reason. If the glove doesnt fit ~

 

More OT:

I get the appeal of progressive-lite in Warren, as a former major supporter. I wont be existentially upset if she wins the nom, though she has a worse chance of winning the general by far then Sanders at the moment.

My problem is just that, regardless of the label you call Sanders, his ideas are populist, and he wants to remake the Democratic party in the eyes of the middle and working class. THAT is how you guarantee economic and social justice, and how you create radical, structural change.  No one else is proposing this, and our democracy is eroding every single day. Incrementalism isn't going to stop the end result, structural change will, and Warren is a self professed capitalist "to her bones"

Edited by ItsTommyBitch
私自身もこの世の中も誰もかれもが, どんなに華やかな人生でも, どんなに悲惨な人生でも, いつかは変貌し, 破壊され、消滅してしまう. すべてがもともとこの世に存在しない一瞬の幻想なのだから
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SeasonOfTheWitch
11 hours ago, ThatBinch said:

Sanders from what I have heard as a Brit is way too close to Jeremy Corbyn in terms of socialist values and policies. He will never get elected, just like Corbyn.

Biden's past is too sketchy at this stage. Imagine what other things they could unearth about him. He is centrist however so that might give him the best chance.

Warren, from what I've seen, has great policies and would make an admirable president. It's a great success story too. But I'm not sure America will vote for a female president. Maybe the backlash against Trump's misogyny will spur on left-leaning female voters though. 

Either way it's time for a f*cking change. I'm not sure who is the most likely to win the presidency at this stage... but I think Biden or Warren are rightly the best candidates.

Did we not vote for one last election 

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rumours
6 hours ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

That being said, blaming 3rd party voters and non-voters for a candidate's inability to win an election is asinine, elitist BS. No candidate is owed a vote, and non voters are disproportionately black, brown, poor and queer.

We may not agree on everything, but I couldn’t agree with you more here. 

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