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Elizabeth Warren is now leading the 2020 polls

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OG Gaga Stan
5 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

Sanders has no chance. No chance. If the UK isn't ready for socialism then the US is even less likely. 

Your post above made it clear that you know next to nothing about US politics, so I have no idea why you’ve decided to weigh in here.

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Economy
5 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Can you and others stop with, "socialism." 

 

Bernie calls himself a democratic-socialist. His programs and policies are not socialism. His policies are not taking control of the means of production.

 

Meanwhile, let's also mention the fact that RCP cherry picks the polls that make it into the average (Emerson as an example is excluded despite the fact it is often used in media discourse [although, usually they only talk about it when Warren does well in an Emerson poll and not when Bernie does]). 

 

 

Your right but in the modern world in politics and economica the word socialism is usually used to describe bigger governemnt and left wing policies

 

ppl know perfectly well no one is suggesting taking over production like the technical definition of socialism

 

theres so many words in english that are no longer used by their original definition i dont know why this has to be such a stickler point when literally everyone knows what were talking about?

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ThatBinch
5 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Can you and others stop with, "socialism." 

 

Bernie calls himself a democratic-socialist. His programs and policies are not socialism. His policies are not taking control of the means of production.

 

Meanwhile, let's also mention the fact that RCP cherry picks the polls that make it into the average (Emerson as an example is excluded despite the fact it is often used in media discourse [although, usually they only talk about it when Warren does well in an Emerson poll and not when Bernie does]). 

 

 

But he is socialist and his policies are definitely socialist for the most part. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with it.  I agree with his policies. He just won't get elected in a million years. Bookmark me.

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ThatBinch
5 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

Your post above made it clear that you know next to nothing about US politics, so I have no idea why you’ve decided to weigh in here.

God, you're patronising. I know what a f*cking socialist policy looks like. 

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gabeoz
Just now, ThatBinch said:

But he is socialist and his policies are definitely socialist for the most part. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with it.  I agree with his policies. He just won't get elected in a million years. Bookmark me.

*sigh*   US politics are right-wing by nature, but any objective political compass would place Warren and Sanders barely left of center. Socialism is proposing things like forced property seizure, instead theyre just asking for people not to die from preventable issues. 

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Economy
1 minute ago, ThatBinch said:

God, you're patronising. I know what a f*cking socialist policy looks like. 

Hes being technical about it

 

the way ppl use the word socialism now generally isnt exactly its correct definition 

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Economy
Just now, gabeoz said:

*sigh*   US politics are right-wing by nature, but any objective political compass would place Warren and Sanders barely left of center. Socialism is proposing things like forced property seizure, instead theyre just asking for people not to die from preventable issues. 

Because the US spends such a fortune on military tho and has a huge debt causing big interest payments...

 

US taxes will have to be higher to afford these programs than your typical developed nation making the US in the business world seem MORE left

 

and some ideas like at networth tax are super left ideas. Hardly any nation does that. Here in Canada only our most left parties like the NDP even suggest the idea

 

Also at least in the developed world that kind of socialism like seizing property hardly occurs anywhere. When ppl say Socialist thats not what they are referring to (even if they don’t technically have the definiton correctly)

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OG Gaga Stan
1 minute ago, Economy said:

Those groups also tend to have particular political opinions. Like the elderly are usually centre wing at best while very young are more likely to be left

breaking it down by spectrum or by age group and class like u did, i think either way gets u simmilar results 

the more left wing like bernie (young ones like u said)

Older ones like Biden (less left)

When you look at the answers their supporters are giving in these polls as to why they’re voting for each candidate, it has next to nothing to do with ideology, aside from Sanders’ supporters, who repeatedly make the case that he’s the best policy-wise.

Biden’s supporters state that their main goal is getting Trump out of office and they believe that Biden is more electable (because everyone on CNN and MSNBC has been repeating that for years).

You’re trying to reaffirm the bit of conventional wisdom that has been perpetuated for decades (that the American public is more moderate, despite all of the polling that indicates that leftist policy proposals are massively popular), when, in reality, what we’re seeing is an older voting populace reflexively pulling for Biden out of fear because they know who he is and because they’ve been told he’s more electable, wealthy white voters pulling for Warren because they want someone with the veneer of progressivism without having to commit to someone like Sanders and working class people and poor people pulling for Sanders. 

The breakdown is only ideological to the extent that poor people are voting for someone that has repeatedly made it clear that he has fought for them his whole life. Warren and Biden’s supporters are voting on cultural or misguided “strategic” grounds.

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OG Gaga Stan
14 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

God, you're patronising. I know what a f*cking socialist policy looks like. 

You don’t. I’m a socialist. Sanders isn’t a socialist.

He’s advocating for what would be fairly moderate social and economic reform in any other industrialized nation. Most of his proposals simply bring us in line with the status quo that currently exists around the world.

You came into this thread and claimed that a candidate has “no shot” at a viable candidacy based on “what you’ve heard” from people you know. Forgive me for not taking that sort of political forecasting seriously.

12 minutes ago, Economy said:

Hes being technical about it

Not at all. Sanders isn’t a socialist. He’s not advocating for a state-run or even worker-run industry. He’s pushing for social-democratic change. I’d give my right arm to have a viable socialist candidate in the US.

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Economy
8 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

When you look at the answers their supporters are giving in these polls as to why they’re voting for each candidate, it has next to nothing to do with ideology, aside from Sanders’ supporters, who repeatedly make the case that he’s the best policy-wise.

Biden’s supporters state that their main goal is getting Trump out of office and they believe that Biden is more electable (because everyone on CNN and MSNBC has been repeating that for years).

You’re trying to reaffirm the bit of conventional wisdom that has been perpetuated for decades (that the American public is more moderate, despite all of the polling that indicates that leftist policy proposals are massively popular), when, in reality, what we’re seeing is an older voting populace reflexively pulling for Biden out of fear because they know who he is and because they’ve been told he’s more electable, wealthy white voters pulling for Warren because they want someone with the veneer of progressivism without having to commit to someone like Sanders and working class people and poor people pulling for Sanders. 

The breakdown is only ideological to the extent that poor people are voting for someone that has repeatedly made it clear that he has fought for them his whole life. Warren and Biden’s supporters are voting on cultural or misguided “strategic” grounds.

I agree with you that the general public us more left supporting than the general media might suggest...

 

But to Bernies level im not convinced. Warren is still way more left than the status quo but more electable for centrists

 

i think against trump shed have a better shot

 

thats just my opinion feel free to disagree

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Free My Mind
34 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

Sanders from what I have heard as a Brit is way too close to Jeremy Corbyn in terms of socialist values and policies. He will never get elected, just like Corbyn.

Biden's past is too sketchy at this stage. Imagine what other things they could unearth about him. He is centrist however so that might give him the best chance.

Warren, from what I've seen, has great policies and would make an admirable president. It's a great success story too. But I'm not sure America will vote for a female president. Maybe the backlash against Trump's misogyny will spur on left-leaning female voters though. 

Either way it's time for a f*cking change. I'm not sure who is the most likely to win the presidency at this stage... but I think Biden or Warren are rightly the best candidates.

What about Corbyn's policies do you not like?

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Halsey
30 minutes ago, ThatBinch said:

Depends how the economy goes. It's not looking great for Trump, especially with the impeachment. (And yes I know he won't get impeached but it will damage his campaign.)

No, not really.

 

Massachusetts Senators have terrible reputation for losing Presidential elections. Dukakis in 88, Kerry in 04. They are out of touch with middle America and the South. Warren is an extremist that alienates older voters and has a meh showing with African American voters. 

 

3-4 candidates that are could win. Biden, Harris, Gabbard of Bullock. Two of them have a .001% chance at winning the primary. It’s gonna be Joe/Kamala as a tickrt

I got drunk

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OG Gaga Stan
Just now, Economy said:

I agree with you that the general public us more left supporting than the general media might suggest... But to Bernies level im not convinced. 

All but one or two of his policy proposals are supported by the majority of the country according to every poll. He’s frequently ranked the most liked politician in the country in favorability indexes. Sanders success or failure in the primary won’t really have anything to do with whether he’s too far left, rather than the way the press has marginalized his candidacy from the start, the extent to which this health scare affects the polling, and the liberal reaction to Trump’s presidency. 

4 minutes ago, Economy said:

Warren is still way more left than the status quo but more electable for centrists

That’s been the narrative for a long time, but it’s not really all that accurate, especially on foreign policy. 

Her supporters have repeatedly indicated in the polls that have been conducted that they’re supporting her over someone like Sanders for cultural or personal reasons rather than ideological ones.

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Economy
9 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

You don’t. I’m a socialist. Sanders isn’t a socialist.

He’s advocating for what would be fairly moderate social and economic reform in any other industrialized nation. Most of his proposals simply bring us in line with the status quo that currently exists around the world.

You came into this thread and claimed that a candidate has “no shot” at a viable candidacy based on “what you’ve heard” from people you know. Forgive me for not taking that sort of political forecasting seriously.

Not at all. Sanders isn’t a socialist. He’s not advocating for a state-run or even worker-run industry. He’s pushing for social-democratic change. I’d give my right arm to have a viable socialist candidate in the US.

His proposals include a networth tax which is used almost no where

 

As i said, even here in Canada only our most left parties (like the NDP or Green Party) even suggest such a thing

 

Other than that I actually agree with u nothing seems too drastic compared to most OECD developed Nations

 

He also doesnt propose major Corporate Tax hikes exept for those that pay CEOs more than 50X regular employees 

 

im glad Bernie understands raising corporate taxes doesnt target the wealthy. If u want to know why ill explain it to u just let me know

 

however I hope Bernie also gets tough on cutting military budget. The US cannot provide the same level of services with this kind of military spending

 

most developed nations pay 1% to 2% of their GDP which is usually 10% of the budget at most

 

the US its 5% of GDP and some 20% of budget. That takes too many financial resources away

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Morphine Prince

Warren is leading a winning campaign. She has slowly and consistently gone up the polls. 

At first I thought her getting close to the top was perhaps momentary but it seems she isn’t slowing down. 

Can’t believe I’m saying this but she could actually be the one to win the nomination.

I thought she wouldn’t have a chance back in December when she announced she was launching an exploratory committee due to the whole Native American thing. Guess I was wrong. 

The friends I've had to bury, they keep me up at night
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