Spiked on Sam Smith: "You're still a he"

[TheQueenLG 2,469]

Just now, Akiki said:

Why would you mix gender identity with sexuality in the first place? 

Me liking boys has nothing to do with my gender and the same applies for the lesbians and Bisexuals. 

Trans also want to transition and change their sex accordingly. They align sex and gender .

 

Every year the LGBT gets new stuff to add and its nonsense. 

Oh, good lord, dear.

Gender and sexuality are closely related. If you can't understand that, you're too far gone. 

The minorities in society of these two closely-related concepts therefore have formed a community in which they can unite against their collective oppression. 

Do some research. All the science and current theories are at conflict with your assertions. That's usually a bad sign. 

Anyway, I have homework to do. I'm done here. 

[Batwings 12,700]

This is the long and short of it: If someone wants to identify as a pink and purple polka-dotted dinosaur and be referred to by the pronoun "dino," you don't have to understand it and you don't have to agree with it. You just refer to that dinosaur person as "dino" and move on with your life because that is the polite, non-asshole thing to do. You're not going to change society by making some grandiose stand by being a jerk and refusing to refer to an individual as he/she wishes.

If Sam identifies as non-binary and wants to be referred to by the singular they/them, so what? Don't you have more important things to do besides pitch a hissy fit because you want to refer to him as male for no other reason than to give you a moment of smug satisfaction?

 

[LordEnigma 11,313]

6 minutes ago, TheQueenLG said:

I'm a penis-haver... I'm a vagina-haver... could you imagine? 

What  I meant classifications based on male/female biology. 

[KingRedd 3,139]

3 minutes ago, TheQueenLG said:

Okay. So now you get the difference between sex/gender. Now dive deeper into gender.

Do some research on gender expression and gender identity. I think that's what's confusing you at this point. 

The theory is most definitely sound, but it can be a lot at first. 

As long as you research with an open mind and an ability to learn, it will make sense eventually. 

I really appreciate your responses. I feel like others assume Im being mean because I legit don't understand.  You make sense you really do. I just find it very complex and backwards. I guess to me someone is either a man or woman. If they are born a man and want to be a woman that makes total sense. If they are a man and are very feminine and want to be called "she" that makes sense. But i guess what has me dazed and confused is the whole they/them thing. I just can't, right now, understand why someone isnt man enough or woman enough to use one of those titles. I dont think we should base what a man is off of what society has taught us. Why do men have to be a certain way and women the same. To me, everyone should be able to identify as one.

But lord im getting so many quotes my eyes and brain hurt lol

[ltlmnstr 2,771]

Just now, Akiki said:

Your point is?... Drag was used to opress woman and  now it isn't. History changes. That was my point. It's not revisionist. 

It was, it isn't, it was, it isn't.

See? Men used to do drag cause woman weren't allowed to perform. That was practice in many cultures. 

Drag was never opressive!

You know nothing of the Pansy 30’s or Drag performers that came before RuPaul. Drag’s been herald thru the Greco-Roman times as the honored Hermaphrodite. A being BEYOND gender.

You are being revisionist because you are using career choices to demean identity of people of GGD.

The only reason for you to make this thread isn’t about Sam Smith. They don’t even know you exist! You are deliberately attacking Non-Binary people who made threads on here in the aftermath of the initial Sam Smith thread.

[TheQueenLG 2,469]

1 minute ago, LordEnigma said:

What  I meant classifications based on male/female biology. 

Well am I wrong? 

Oh, wait. I already checked out here. I need to homework... Seriously, b*tches! 

[ARTPOP2 3,948]

3 minutes ago, Akiki said:

My main problem is that in nature non-binary differ greatly from the LGBT.

While the first 4 aren't in any way optional and are easily factual, Non-Binary isn't that clear. 

well, it's arguable, because many non-binary folks have dysphoria just like binary trans individuals, so I wouldn't say it's optional for a lot of people, and even if it is "optional", the struggle of these people goes in the same vein of LGBT people, non-binary people are rejecting the binary system that caused our (us the LGBTs) collective suffering in the first place. They are leading a radical fight toward true freedom from gender norms, toward fully complete body autonomy and toward the dismantling of an oppressive societal structure that caused the suffering of women as well.

I understand the solidarity part but let's be honest. The LGBT made much progress this last decades but we are still fresh meat and easy ducks. You dont open your house to the pig knowing the wolf is not that far away if you know what I mean. 

I totally hate this "point of view". Queer people want acceptance but they do not want to conform to cisnormative and heteronormative systems to pass and be accepted. We wanna be accepted for who we are, no compromises. We should not want to please and "be friends" with the capitalist heterosexual cisgendered society we live in, that same society that have the power to rollback our rights and turn its back to our cause, we should stick with our siblings and leave no one behind, we should support the fight of trans and non-binary people because they are the one that will stick (and have stuck) with us in case of any oppression. I would rather be rejected by the oppressor, than befriend him and get his acceptance over the suffering of my trans brother, sisters and non-binaries. 

 

 

[AnglerfishbraBENUS 4,833]

21 minutes ago, KingRedd said:

See and that’s what my brain truly doesn’t understand. No disrespect to any who is non-binary I just truly don’t understand how someone can say they aren’t a male or female. To me, you are one or the other even if you were born in the wrong body you can still call yourself what you believe you are but to be neither just doesn’t make any sense. It’s kinda supporting toxic masculinity in a way. It comes off as like this: 

If “Bob” is feminine but still has masculine ways he’s not “man” enough to just say he’s a man. It’s like he has to be something else because all men must be masculine and that’s what I don’t support or understand. 

I'm cis so sorry if I get it wrong guys, but this isn't about male or female.  It's breaking down the walls surrounding how 'males'  and 'females' are supposed to act based on society standards.  Sam saying that he is non-binary is most likely referring to way he expresses himself in a realm that isn't 'boys like blue and wear suits' and 'girls like pink and wear dresses.'  It's the parts of society that make feminine men and masculine women feel like less.   I think you can fully admit to being a male, while still expressing yourself as they, because 'he' fills in a lot of blanks about who Sam is, without even knowing him.  Being non-binary sort of eliminates the assumptions about what you probably act like or etc because you are a specific gender.  Gender is not sex.  Gender is a construct.

[KingRedd 3,139]

7 minutes ago, ctherainbow said:

I see where you’re coming from here.  I agree that both masculinity and femininity should be far less structured than they are now, and more inclusive of people.  Honestly, I hope that eventually society evolves to the point where gender isn’t structured anymore and everyone can just do their own thing without any gendered expectations.  However, especially in some areas of the world and some communities, gender roles are so strictly enforced and rigid that people don’t feel that they belong in either gender, so they choose to identify outside of the male/female gender binary. It’s just a personal gender identity choice that some people are more comfortable making, rather than identifying with a gender that society has set up with a set of guidelines.

Hopefully that helps a bit with clarity.      

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. Im glad someone understood me lol. I have no problem learning and calling people what they want to be called. It may take time but i just didn't understand the thought process of choosing neither one as an identity. I truly want the world to allow men and women to act however they want and not have expectations on how a man/woman should act. 

[ltlmnstr 2,771]

1 minute ago, KingRedd said:

I really appreciate your responses. I feel like others assume Im being mean because I legit don't understand.  You make sense you really do. I just find it very complex and backwards. I guess to me someone is either a man or woman. If they are born a man and want to be a woman that makes total sense. If they are a man and are very feminine and want to be called "she" that makes sense. But i guess what has me dazed and confused is the whole they/them thing. I just can't, right now, understand why someone isnt man enough or woman enough to use one of those titles. I dont think we should base what a man is off of what society has taught us. Why do men have to be a certain way and women the same. To me, everyone should be able to identify as one.

But lord im getting so many quotes my eyes and brain hurt lol

Someone is assigned male at birth

and when they grow up, their dna and brain structures form similar to the opposite sex.

There’s been studies that Trans Women have Cis Women brain structures.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

That’s why it isn’t “I was a man and now want to be a woman.” It’s “I was assigned a male gender at birth, and due to gender dysphoria, I know that I’m not what the doctor say I am.”

[KingRedd 3,139]

2 minutes ago, whipopotamus said:

I'm cis so sorry if I get it wrong guys, but this isn't about male or female.  It's breaking down the walls surrounding how 'males'  and 'females' are supposed to act based on society standards.  Sam saying that he is non-binary is most likely referring to way he expresses himself in a realm that isn't 'boys like blue and wear suits' and 'girls like pink and wear dresses.'  It's the parts of society that make feminine men and masculine women feel like less.   I think you can fully admit to being a male, while still expressing yourself as they, because 'he' fills in a lot of blanks about who Sam is, without even knowing him.  Being non-binary sort of eliminates the assumptions about what you probably act like or etc because you are a specific gender.  Gender is not sex.  Gender is a construct.

That's what Im essentially saying. To me, if a man says he doesnt feel like a man, that makes me feel like society needs the change. I dont think it helps to keep making new ways to be accepted. My concern would be to ask him why he feels as though he isnt man enough or woman to be either one. I want the criteria of acting like a man or woman to be reduced to nothing at some point. It bothers me that we have such strong criteria of what it means to be a man. If someone says they cant be or dont feel like a man that makes me feel like we need to change what people think being a man is. Id lol guess im thinking different

[ltlmnstr 2,771]

1 hour ago, Seeka said:

Spike is not toxic masculinity. It's nuclear. It's Chernobyl. It causes cancer by watching. You literally cannot take it as unbiased source. Also, OP, we all know who you are. You're not a third party. You are actively are against non-binary people. 

(I’m just gonna reply to this comment to raise awareness because I’ve had very past positive interactions with Seeka)

The Supreme Court returns in October and on October 8, will be hearing a court case on whether it is legal to fire someone because they are Gay and Trans.

By Pride next year in June 2020, we will hear the verdict. It’s a conservative court...

[Akiki 3,900]

11 minutes ago, ltlmnstr said:

Drag was never opressive!

You know nothing of the Pansy 30’s or Drag performers that came before RuPaul. Drag’s been herald thru the Greco-Roman times as the honored Hermaphrodite. A being BEYOND gender.

You are being revisionist because you are using career choices to demean identity of people of GGD.

The only reason for you to make this thread isn’t about Sam Smith. They don’t even know you exist! You are deliberately attacking Non-Binary people who made threads on here in the aftermath of the initial Sam Smith thread.

What? Even Shakespeare in Love is literally about a girl trying to get on a theater but she can't cause woman aren't allowed. Instead, man dresses like woman to replace them in a very unpleasant way. Mocking them and their gender. This is not made up. It happened. Drag it's a symptom of the heterosexual cis gendered and male centric society oppressing woman. It's not like they were "Representing woman". They were compactuating with the view that woman was lesser than man. This was made all over europe. 

[ltlmnstr 2,771]

Just now, Akiki said:

What? Even Shakespeare in Love is literally about a girl trying to get on a theater but she can't cause woman aren't allowed. Instead, man dresses like woman to replace them in a very unpleasant way. Mocking them and their gender. This is not made up. It happened. Drag it's a symptom of the heterosexual cis gendered and male centric society oppressing woman. It's now like they were "Representing woman". They were compactuating with the view that woman was lesser than man. This was made all over europe. 

You’re gonna use a Fictional Movie from 1998 as a source? OHMYGOD I HAVE TO LAUGH

Are you daft?!

ohmygod you really started this thread just to be aggressive towards Non-Binary GGD users.

Go on twitter and send hate to people instead lmao! I just can’t smh

[LordEnigma 11,313]

5 minutes ago, KingRedd said:

That's what Im essentially saying. To me, if a man says he doesnt feel like a man, that makes me feel like society needs the change. I dont think it helps to keep making new ways to be accepted. My concern would be to ask him why he feels as though he isnt man enough or woman to be either one. I want the criteria of acting like a man or woman to be reduced to nothing at some point. It bothers me that we have such strong criteria of what it means to be a man. If someone says they cant be or dont feel like a man that makes me feel like we need to change what people think being a man is. Id lol guess im thinking different

I'm confused and wondering if you could clarify - so does the non-binary thing bother you or society's expectations of gender? Because how you are describing it to me is that men have a penis and women have a vagina and that's how we should classify things. From there they can express themself in anyway but they are still a man or woman based on their biological sex (whether masculine our feminine).

In that case, do you believe that transgender women are only women if they are post surgery?