Warren in clear second place in 2020 race (NBC poll)

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

14 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

A Bernie hater saying that Warren is more ”likeable”, shocking.

Besides this is only one poll. What about the fact that Bernie has more grass roots support, having the most individual donors?  Wouldn’t that make him more “likeable”?

He is just more known, not likeable. 

[Whispering 18,865]

6 hours ago, kyanewest said:

And Trump graduated from college, doesn't mean anything 

Trump wasn’t a Rhodes Scholar, nor was he a Harvard Law Professor. Once again, what National awards or profession do you have that compares?

[HorusRa2 5,005]

20 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

He is just more known, not likeable. 

That’s not a very sound argument. Morning Consult has done weekly polls since the primary began. Warren’s name ID is at 93% compared to Bernie’s 99%. Additionally, Bernie has the highest favorability if anybody in the field (albeit barely as Biden is so close behind him). 

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Political-Intelligence-9.16.19.pdf

Another instance where Bernie was considered the most popular congressman. Warren didn’t make the top 10. I tried to find a Q1 2019 report but didn’t see it. 

https://morningconsult.com/2019/01/10/americas-most-and-least-popular-senators-q4-2018/

I say all of this to say that Bernie isn’t so far and ahead in terms of name ID for that to really mean anything. Not to mention the other side where you suggested Bernie isn’t likeable when consistent aggregate of data suggests otherwise. 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

29 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

He is just more known, not likeable. 

But that’s just your biased opinion so 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

But that’s just your biased opinion so 

For a group of democratic voters like some in this thread to emphasize that we hold beliefs not grounded in reality, they consistently provide little to no evidence to support their argument beyond, “this one poll is the only right answer.” 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

7 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

For a group of democratic voters like some in this thread to emphasize that we hold beliefs not grounded in reality, they consistently provide little to no evidence to support their argument beyond, “this one poll is the only right answer.” 

I have seen nothing but facts and data coming from the Bernie Brigade on this thread. Everyone else is just using their feelings to try and make their points 

[Gov Hooka 8,008]

That awkward moment when I cause a fight in my friend’s group chat because of this thread. One works in the Warren campaign and one works in the Sanders campaign

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

1 hour ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

But that’s just your biased opinion so 

Ok see you after the next debate when her numbers keep rising.

[REALITY 80,162]

16 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

Thanks for replying. I will refrain somewhat from the policy specifics then. Bernie doesn’t have an active wealth tax (Warren uses her tax to pay for child care and for her student loan program whereas Bernie pays for his student debt cancellation (all debt) through a less than 1% tax on Wall Street transactions)). I can’t say much about “social” issues but I can speak to Bernie’s criminal justice plan and how I love that it addresses the need for trans people who are incarcerated to get specific healthcare needs addressed and other candidates don’t. I would recommend you compare Warrens plan for clean energy and compare to Bernie’s. Warren’s plan is a lot like Jay Inslees who dropped out a month ago & the consensus is that Bernie’s plan is more ambitious than both. Bernie and Warren have similar stances on immigration—Bernie has in particular focused on this a lot especially in terms of the DACA program and extending it to the parents of immigrant children as well as a temporary ban on deportations and a pathway to citizen ship. 

There’s still a childcare plan that Bernie is going to release soon so I recommend you looking into that as well. I also strongly suggest you read all the plans for yourself. Don’t just listen to me and take the time to read the plans. One reason why I prefer Bernie over Warren is because of Medicare for All. Warren keeps flip flopping on the topic and doesn’t always give the impression she’s willing to fight for it. It has become my issue because my mother died of colon cancer at the age of 45. The last 2 years of her life was spent worrying about bills and health insurance and treatments all the while enduring enormous pain. It broke my heart and I don’t know that ill ever be the same because of it. And because she worked hard for very little money, she never went to the doctor because while she could afford the insurance, she could t afford medicines or medical bills. If we had a Medicare for All single payer system, there’s the possibility she would have went to the doctor without worrying about money and it could have been caught sooner. And maybe I wouldn’t have to wonder for the rest of my life whether or not it would have made a difference. And the fact that Warren refuses to fully endorse Medicare for All, push for the elimination of the profit motive in healthcare and fight for it to be a basic human right makes it impossible for me to vote for her. 

Likewise, thanks for the reply. I'll continute to do more research about each candidate. Like I said, I'm probably not the best person to talk to or debate with when it comes to trying to disect each candidate's individual plans. Perhaps it's because of how the media spins it or something, but Sanders and Warren just seem like similar candidates in my eyes, so I never really understood why there was this "Sanders v. Warren" ideology that some people have. 

About Warren's Medicare for All system though, how exactly does she "flip flop" when it comes to this issue? I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, by the way. I'm genuinely curious. In every interview I've heard/seen/read with her talking about Medicare, she seems very head-strong and deliberate when it comes to this issue. 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

47 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Ok see you after the next debate when her numbers keep rising.

Let’s hope her numbers among African Americans and Latinos rise too because she’s lagging behind Bernie 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

17 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Likewise, thanks for the reply. I'll continute to do more research about each candidate. Like I said, I'm probably not the best person to talk to or debate with when it comes to trying to disect each candidate's individual plans. Perhaps it's because of how the media spins it or something, but Sanders and Warren just seem like similar candidates in my eyes, so I never really understood why there was this "Sanders v. Warren" ideology that some people have. 

About Warren's Medicare for All system though, how exactly does she "flip flop" when it comes to this issue? I'm not trying to be facetious or anything, by the way. I'm genuinely curious. In every interview I've heard/seen/read with her talking about Medicare, she seems very head-strong and deliberate when it comes to this issue. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiT86vL-trkAhUSOK0KHVCRCXMQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.com%2Fstory%2F2019%2F08%2F02%2Fwarren-health-care-2020-1630660&psig=AOvVaw0wCuUt01oOaAZ_ElQnPPMT&ust=1568916241546737

 

 

Now to be clear, she does say “now” that she supports Medicare for All, but many times she tries to suggest there are multiple ways to getting there. Other times she doesn’t appear to know the bill very well or as well as Bernie and her defense of it isn’t as strong (I can go into further detail here if you really want me to).

 

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/health-care

Her website is really vague as to what Medicare for All is. It doesn’t explain that it means duplicative coverage is illegal. This means private insurance cannot insure anything covered by Medicare for All, which covers almost everything. The bill allows for supplemental private insurance such as plastic surgery and the like. Warren doesn’t make these kind of distinctions when talking about it. She also runs away at saying yes Medicare for All raises taxes for everyone; however, the tax increase is offset by the elimination of copays, deductibles & out of pocket expenses. She is disingenuous when she suggests that taxes don’t go up for middle class families. Ultimately, it’s not about whether or not she’s “for it” or “against it.” Rather, she cannot be relief upon to fight for it 100%. She didn’t have it on her website until the day of the last debate, and the only reason I know this is because I look at candidate websites frequently. 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

11 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

Let’s hope her numbers among African Americans and Latinos rise too because she’s lagging behind Bernie 

Este Latino va votar por ella.  

[Petie Estie 5,707]

read several comments and nobody just excited for Warren. This is good news guys. Warren is an amazing presidential candidate -- better than any we've had in modern history. Smart, knows how to explain things on a personal level, progressive, and doesn't back down on her values. Get into it. 

[Petie Estie 5,707]

58 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiT86vL-trkAhUSOK0KHVCRCXMQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.com%2Fstory%2F2019%2F08%2F02%2Fwarren-health-care-2020-1630660&psig=AOvVaw0wCuUt01oOaAZ_ElQnPPMT&ust=1568916241546737

 

 

Now to be clear, she does say “now” that she supports Medicare for All, but many times she tries to suggest there are multiple ways to getting there. Other times she doesn’t appear to know the bill very well or as well as Bernie and her defense of it isn’t as strong (I can go into further detail here if you really want me to).

 

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/health-care

Her website is really vague as to what Medicare for All is. It doesn’t explain that it means duplicative coverage is illegal. This means private insurance cannot insure anything covered by Medicare for All, which covers almost everything. The bill allows for supplemental private insurance such as plastic surgery and the like. Warren doesn’t make these kind of distinctions when talking about it. She also runs away at saying yes Medicare for All raises taxes for everyone; however, the tax increase is offset by the elimination of copays, deductibles & out of pocket expenses. She is disingenuous when she suggests that taxes don’t go up for middle class families. Ultimately, it’s not about whether or not she’s “for it” or “against it.” Rather, she cannot be relief upon to fight for it 100%. She didn’t have it on her website until the day of the last debate, and the only reason I know this is because I look at candidate websites frequently. 

this is some serious mental gymnastics to look for a problem. She supports medicare for all. She will abolish private insurance like Bernie's bill does. She raised her hand during that stupid debate question about that. She says costs will go down overall for families rather than talk about raising taxes. It's not disingenuous or whatever. It's true and the way we should be talking about it rather than the way everyone wants to talk about it to scare away the american people from something good. 

If she says taxes will go up it doesn't do her any good. It'll just run 100x a day in attack ads. But it's clear to anyone that listens to an answer of hers that it will be a tax. It's not a secret. I don't think Americans are stupid enough to think that medicare for all isn't a tax. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

7 minutes ago, SEANGT said:

this is some serious mental gymnastics to look for a problem. She supports medicare for all. She will abolish private insurance like Bernie's bill does. She raised her hand during that stupid debate question about that. She says costs will go down overall for families rather than talk about raising taxes. It's not disingenuous or whatever. It's true and the way we should be talking about it rather than the way everyone wants to talk about it to scare away the american people from something good. 

If she says taxes will go up it doesn't do her any good. It'll just run 100x a day in attack ads. But it's clear to anyone that listens to an answer of hers that it will be a tax. It's not a secret. I don't think Americans are stupid enough to think that medicare for all isn't a tax. 

The problem is that over the course of the campaign how she approaches the question on how to get to universal healthcare has changed. As the campaign has moved forward she has became more consistent in her messaging but brings into question whether or not she's really going to fight for this issue once elected. Considering this is the issue most important to me, I take issue with that and prefer to stand with the candidate who has consistently campaigned and advocated for healthcare as a human right through a single-payer healthcare program. It's not really complicated or the mental gymnastics that you alluded to. If she had came out the gate and said she supported medicare for all and that it was the way forward, that she was a co-sponsor of the bill and that was her vision, I wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead, she started her campaign with things like, "there are many paths on the way to get there," and "what's most important is increasing access." Anytime a democratic candidate, not just Warren, uses the word access in regards to healthcare, you should be very critical of what comes next. You can have access all day long, but access to healthcare is not the same thing as having healthcare provided to you. In Bernie's words, "Access doesn't mean a damn thing"