Dalai Lama: Europe will become "muslim" or "african" if migrants stay

[Babel 41,637]

Literally every human comes from Africa. The whole world is already “African”. 

[FlopSlurper 34,336]

2 minutes ago, August3 said:

It's never a good thing when a group of people takes over a country or a continent. And lol at some of you using colonization as an argument for why that's okay. Try turning that argument around; how can you complain about colonization and at the same time believe that it's okay for muslims and africans to "take over" european countries? not that it's likely to ever happen anyway. 

Anyway I don't think what Dalai Lama is saying is correct, it won't happen anytime in the near future at least. But as I said in an earlier post, it would be problematic if that happened. 

who took over what though? most of these people fled to Europe to have basic human needs, food and safety. Most are living in poor conditions anyways, they aren't asking to be in the government or setting up their own party or anything.

2 minutes ago, August3 said:

 muslims and africans to "take over" european countries? not that it's likely to ever happen anyway. 

you even know that what you're saying is absurd yet you're siding with what he said I-

 

[Shipper 13,114]

44 minutes ago, Bambino said:

Sometimes Gaga really needs to do her research before meeting some people and/or going to their countries.

She should NOT be held accountable for all of the future actions or words. of people she meets or works with. 

So what if she met him a few years ago?

[Queen Bitch 10,513]

3 minutes ago, FlopSlurper said:

who took over what though? most of these people fled to Europe to have basic human needs, food and safety. Most are living in poor conditions anyways, they aren't asking to be in the government or setting up their own party or anything.

you even know that what you're saying is absurd yet you're siding with what he said I-

 

I only agree with him that Europe should not be majority African or muslim. It's not going to happen, but it would be bad if it did, that's all I'm trying to say. 

[LaLa 19,898]

18 minutes ago, OMonster said:

I think his argument refers to cultures, not individual human-beings. 

Of course, any human should be able to live in any part of the world... but there are cultural limitations to that freedom.

For example, if Europe were to become majority Muslim (60/40) - culturally, since the continent would likely have sharia law by the point of this ridiculously unlikely (but let's go with it, anyway!) scenario, the minority 40% of the population would not be able to live freely. 

And I think that is possibly the point that is being made here. It isn't to say that Europe shouldn't have Muslim citizens (of course it should) - it's to say that - hypothetically - if Europe were to have a majority that follow sharia / Islamic law... the cultural and legislative impact that would have on the continent would be quite damaging. 

And my point about culture vs. human is that if Europe were to become majority Muslim, but those Muslims *did not* believe in sharia law (or at least, some of the more extreme values it promotes) - there would be absolutely no problem with Europe becoming more Muslim. It's not about the people, it's about how different interpretations of culture may clash. 

All humans should be free. But culture and religion, in some scenarios, ultimately inhibit that freedom. 

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Clearly, there is no issue with muslims in Europe or in any other Western country. The *vast* majority do not believe in radical teachings surrounding women or gay people, for example. 

 

I'm just not overly sentimental about any one culture surviving, tbh. On a long enough timeline everything will evolve and change anyway.

I think about people living at the height of the Roman empire. If you'd told them that in less than a thousand years that the entire thing would collapse and be reduce to one city, and that eventually Latin would be a dead language they'd be shook to the core I'm sure. But modern people now aren't weeping and wailing over the loss. We speak different languages and worship different Gods, time marches on.

And evil regimes that restrict people's freedoms can arise very quickly in any culture!! Europe could be back to a far-right "sharia law" like scenario all on it's own -- look at what's happening in America! We can't know what a muslim or african or anything-else majority of Europe would look like, we can't say that they would make it "worse", and I just think that using worse-case hypothetical scenarios about the future to restrict immigrants movements today is not right.

[Brie Candy 18,650]

The lack of empathy is terrible

[OMonster 15,025]

2 minutes ago, LaLa said:

I'm just not overly sentimental about any one culture surviving, tbh. On a long enough timeline everything will evolve and change anyway.

I think about people living at the height of the Roman empire. If you'd told them that in less than a thousand years that the entire thing would collapse and be reduce to one city, and that eventually Latin would be a dead language they'd be shook to the core I'm sure. But modern people now aren't weeping and wailing over the loss. We speak different languages and worship different God, time marches on.

And evil regimes that restrict people's freedoms can arise very quickly in any culture!! Europe could be back to a far-right "sharia law" like scenario all on it's own -- look at what's happening in America! We can't know what a muslim or african or anything-else majority of Europe would look like, we can't say that they would make it "worse", and I just think that using worse-case hypothetical scenarios about the future to restrict immigrants movements today is not right.

That's a really enlightening approach to take, looking at things from a historical perspective and realising that no culture will ever reign supreme. I like it  

I guess I could just see, hypothetically, how Europe being dominated by sharia law (which again, I realise would never happen) would be harmful to the freedoms that so many of us fought to have. And I think that is the point the Dalai, for whatever reason,  wanted to make. 

But again, I categorically do not apply that to Western-living Muslims - or any individual Muslim, even... just more to some of the principles of radical sharia legislation; which I know many Muslims themselves disagree with.

As a side-note, isn't it ironic how truly peaceful the majority of Islam teaching is? Radicalism is really not a 'Muslim problem'. But that's for another discussion. 

[RAMROD 117,053]

Well, that is rather problematic opinion. But he may just be ignorant about the issue.

[Chromatislaps 34,854]

I think his old age made his ability to express himself in English worse, I remember he was better in expressing himself in English some decades ago.

But what I can derive from this is that taking refugees in and helping them doesn't mean that they should stay in the country unless they are permitted. The whole idea of taking refugees is to help them in any way possible to be prepared so they can return and rebuild their country of origin once the conflict has resolved. In theory that is an idea I can stand behind, but in terms of how it is put in practice it's not realistic.

for the too lazy too read folks: refugees =/= immigrants > refugees should be education and be helped to return to their own country once the situation is resolved.

How the Dalai Lama has phrased it was unfortunate tho  people have roamed and conquered to world throughout history, heck even whole ethicities have migrated during certain events in history

[hankhatesyouall 2,731]

Can somebody explain what is wrong with his statement? 

Europeans do not want to be replaced by immigrants that have nothing to do with their culture and history. What a shocker. 

This is why far-right parties are winning. 

 

 

[hankhatesyouall 2,731]

48 minutes ago, Vegas said:

Literally every human comes from Africa. The whole world is already “African”. 

Did Africans build the European civilization? 

The whole 'we are all immigrants' argument is so absurd 

[LaLa 19,898]

14 minutes ago, OMonster said:

Radicalism is really not a 'Muslim problem'.

That's exactly it. I don't think you and I are too far apart in our beliefs (I'm obviously against any oppressive regime anywhere) and I appreciate the discussion. 

I'm from Canada (and white, if it matters) and we've had some of the largest immigration numbers in the last few years in like a century, so I (unfortunately) hear people making these "they'll take over!!" arguments from time to time.  And I'm just like, okay, so what if "they" do?

My mother tongue is English, my ancestors going back hundred of years spoke English, but I guarantee you if I went back in time like 500 years and tried to have a conversation we wouldn't understand each other very well, if at all. And we'd be speaking "the same" language. But everything changes and I'm okay with that. 

I just want everyone to be free, and safe, and happy (and I know you want that too)  

[SKANK 14,288]

It’s important to consider where he is coming from. 

The Dala Lama was the spiritual and political leader of Tibet. He was deposed by the Chinese government. The Tibetans were tortured, slaughtered, and forced to abandon their faith and culture, while China pushed its secular population into Tibet in order to gain control of the region. 

That is his frame of reference. 

 

 

[Babel 41,637]

19 minutes ago, hankhatesyouall said:

Did Africans build the European civilization? 

The whole 'we are all immigrants' argument is so absurd 

Of course, Europe lived in their own bubble for centuries and never ever had contact with other civilizations beyond the Mediterranean Sea in order to become what it is today.

[Mythos 3,199]

Nothing wrong with his statement, to be honest. Yes, there was always migration of people (Völkerwanderung), but it should never change the place/country drastically, in my opinion. It's not like this is something new, or gonna cease to exist, no matter what people say.