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Aarghya

Where are the EnigmaHaters? :ally:

You took my sadness out of context.. They mistook my kindness for weakness
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Bradley
1 hour ago, Didymus said:

The only thing holding up that whole show imo

Sis...I can't even find any possible arguments to support that statement. She drove the entire show forward with her vocals, acting (not perfect but far from being worthless), theatricality, outfits and dancing.

Besides, people praise Born This Way Ball to the heavens but it actually has some really questionable outfits and wigs. Enigma has far more appealing outfits and wigs than the Born This Way Ball.

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Didymus
1 minute ago, Bradley said:

Sis...I can't even find any possible arguments to support that statement. She drove the entire show forward with her vocals, acting (not perfect but far from being worthless), theatricality, outfits and dancing.

Besides, people praise Born This Way Ball to the heavens but it actually has some really questionable outfits and wigs. Enigma has far more appealing outfits and wigs than the Born This Way Ball.

Agreed, actually but I hate most of the BTWB too :chica:

There is one argument that easily backs me up: remove the screens and expensive lighting set and what do you have?  :koons:The same choreos we've seen 100x, mediocre pop vocals (because she still insists to do that choreo throughout entire songs even though she can't even execute them 100% professionally 'cause she's just not a strong dancer), the same old "I don't care what anyone thinks", "I love my friends", "the media/fame is bad" speeches and piano segments so she can rest (cute but she's been doing that for forever now) and a storyline that only makes half sense and seems like an excuse to tie unrelated songs together.

Compared to early tours I feel like her stage presence specifically is really suffering (and I'm not talking about the brilliant jazz show accompanying Enigma where it is on fire) and, at this point, there really is no excuse for performing that same stale old choreo over and over again :air: She also promised (finally!) to reinvent her songs and she didn't, apart from a few reimagined vocal lines :madge: Set pieces are made use of but they're usually just an excuse for her to sit or stand still throughout an entire number and they end up losing their theatrical impact because of it.

All of that compared to the amazing arrangements and flow of her jazz show tells me she couldn't be bothered to set up a truly magnificent pop show and relied on her old clichés and stunning screen visuals to make it pass :shrug: It's tough for me to say, but even Katy's last two tours were more exciting and innovative in terms of delivering a pop spectacle. Just because Gaga has better vocals doesn't mean her show is well executed. I'm, again, super happy you and other fans are enjoying it but I find even her Fame Ball performances more inventive, more dynamic and more effective as pop performances. That seems problematic this late in her career :rip:

No hate though. I knew this was coming. I predicted her jazz show was gonna be genius and the pop show would be lacking months before they debuted :vegas: It's just flat out obvious that's where her heart lies now.

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HotLikeMexico

As cool as this video was, seeing all that software gave me anxiety as I thought about work :sweat:

Edited by HotLikeMexico

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Curunir
45 minutes ago, Bradley said:

Sis...I can't even find any possible arguments to support that statement. She drove the entire show forward with her vocals, acting (not perfect but far from being worthless), theatricality, outfits and dancing.

Besides, people praise Born This Way Ball to the heavens but it actually has some really questionable outfits and wigs. Enigma has far more appealing outfits and wigs than the Born This Way Ball.

giphy.gif

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Bradley
1 hour ago, Curunir said:

giphy.gif

Im sorry but are you saying this is a good wig?

Lady_Gaga_Judas_BTW_Ball.jpgtumblr_mixwhis4L01qh24xyo1_400.png

Edited by Bradley
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Bradley
2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Agreed, actually but I hate most of the BTWB too :chica:

There is one argument that easily backs me up: remove the screens and expensive lighting set and what do you have?  :koons:The same choreos we've seen 100x, mediocre pop vocals (because she still insists to do that choreo throughout entire songs even though she can't even execute them 100% professionally 'cause she's just not a strong dancer), the same old "I don't care what anyone thinks", "I love my friends", "the media/fame is bad" speeches and piano segments so she can rest (cute but she's been doing that for forever now) and a storyline that only makes half sense and seems like an excuse to tie unrelated songs together.

Compared to early tours I feel like her stage presence specifically is really suffering (and I'm not talking about the brilliant jazz show accompanying Enigma where it is on fire) and, at this point, there really is no excuse for performing that same stale old choreo over and over again :air: She also promised (finally!) to reinvent her songs and she didn't, apart from a few reimagined vocal lines :madge: Set pieces are made use of but they're usually just an excuse for her to sit or stand still throughout an entire number and they end up losing their theatrical impact because of it.

All of that compared to the amazing arrangements and flow of her jazz show tells me she couldn't be bothered to set up a truly magnificent pop show and relied on her old clichés and stunning screen visuals to make it pass :shrug: It's tough for me to say, but even Katy's last two tours were more exciting and innovative in terms of delivering a pop spectacle. Just because Gaga has better vocals doesn't mean her show is well executed. I'm, again, super happy you and other fans are enjoying it but I find even her Fame Ball performances more inventive, more dynamic and more effective as pop performances. That seems problematic this late in her career :rip:

No hate though. I knew this was coming. I predicted her jazz show was gonna be genius and the pop show would be lacking months before they debuted :vegas: It's just flat out obvious that's where her heart lies now.

You've always had very unusual opinions, but at least you are not hell-bent on proving other people wrong, rather you seek to truly only explain your thoughts as truthfully as possible, so I'm less provoked by you than I am by other people. I mean I knew you were a huge fan of The Fame Ball Tour, so that explains a lot, cause frankly I do think that tour is very underrated among this fanbase.

Nonetheless, as someone who have had his life changed by the show, and who have witnessed firsthand what it looks like in real life, I can't agree. And trust me, this adoration I show is not just purely based on sentimental value and personal reasons, but also the technical aspects of the show.

I think you've been unfairly harsh on your critique. First of all, which show doesn't rely on video backdrops and lighting in the age of 2010s? Why do we want to remove elements of showmanship from a show? Katy Perry herself has utilised lighting and colourful visuals to her advantage, and I don't understand why you give Perry that benefit but not Gaga? Besides, Gaga's visuals were far more mature and immersive 100%.

Secondly, fine let's talk about musicianship. Mediocre pop vocals? I certainly do not agree. I think she nailed most if not every line of this residency thus far and I've watched tons of videos from both leg 1 and leg 2. Sure there were a couple of lines she didn't really sing, but to say that she did bad in 90% of other parts of the show vocally, I can't agree with.

Thirdly, I do agree that Gaga is not better than Beyonce and Michael Jackson in dancing, but in comparison to Perry, Rihanna and Britney Spears, her moves are still always more energetic and intensive than theirs. She really is far from being the worst. She's decent I would say. Actually Richard did change many elements of the choreography (LoveGame, The Fame, Dance in the Dark, Poker Face, Just Dance (the bridge)) And I think Gaga gave him a specific instruction that she shouldn't change the fundamental parts of the choreo cause it would take away the essence of nostalgia. Not sure if you've considered that. Like for example, you cannot remove monster/paw dance moves from Bad Romance, and I believe the same for Born This Way.

(this is getting long lemme quote you again below)

Edited by Bradley
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Bradley
2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Compared to early tours I feel like her stage presence specifically is really suffering (and I'm not talking about the brilliant jazz show accompanying Enigma where it is on fire) and, at this point, there really is no excuse for performing that same stale old choreo over and over again :air: She also promised (finally!) to reinvent her songs and she didn't, apart from a few reimagined vocal lines :madge: Set pieces are made use of but they're usually just an excuse for her to sit or stand still throughout an entire number and they end up losing their theatrical impact because of it.

No hate though. I knew this was coming. I predicted her jazz show was gonna be genius and the pop show would be lacking months before they debuted :vegas: It's just flat out obvious that's where her heart lies now.

I'm sorry but did you say that you preferred if she didn't do an acoustic segment? I think shows without acoustic sets can get tedious and monotonous. I attended Beyonce's OTR II Tour and I thought the biggest problem was how it was fast-tempo from beginning to end with no sorts of tonal changes whatsover. I think piano sets provide a nice change to the pace and tone.

One thing that I can agree with you is that I do think she could reimagine her songs a little bit. Like maybe insert pauses and remixes in between songs rather than just outros and intros. Give the songs a little personality. But Michael Bearden seemed to prefer to focus on changing the instruments behind the songs, rather than changing the structure of it. I don't know why they are afraid to change the latter, but that I can agree with you.

Still, I don't think it is a fatal mistake. It might take away a few points from the show, but ultimately I still have to say it's deserving of the critical acclaim critics gave her, as well as the adoration and acclaim given by attendees. I feel like if you're watching a show with the knowledge that she's done this for 20 times, then you might think 'the stage presence is bad'. But for a GP attending it without knowing which night it is, or for me who attended without knowing a single thing about it, it was still an immersive, energetic and intense experience. Psychedelic I'd even say.

I feel like what you are looking for is attitude. And attitude roots from acting on stage. I mean sure it could make a show better, but if you put in excellent vocals, tightly choreographed dance moves, theatricality (JD, Paparazzi, ScheiBe, the whole acting with Enigma, anime interludes), amazing lasers, lights, structures and backdrops, as well as a great and inspirational message, I don't see how it can be not enjoyable.

I really doubt Katy Perry can put on a better residency.

One more thing, audience reaction (the amount of attendees) can contribute to stage presence. I feel like people are comparing theater shows with arena/stadium shows, if you've seen documentaries about concerts, you know how impactful the size of an audience can be on the impression a show gives.

Edited by Bradley
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doppelganger

There's a depth to the digital backdrop that is honestly quite remarkable. As if the lighting of the show actually affects the backdrop making it look three dimensional. 

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Suspiria
21 minutes ago, Bradley said:

Im sorry but are you saying this is a good wig?

Lady_Gaga_Judas_BTW_Ball.jpgtumblr_mixwhis4L01qh24xyo1_400.png

No, but these are

gaga3.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=780

2b22d35e695d7095ed4d43c1dec83945.jpg

tumblr_orcqocdM001wnhn3vo1_400.jpg

 

In terms of the outfits there is literally no comparison.

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Bradley
4 minutes ago, Suspiria said:

No, but these are

gaga3.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=780

2b22d35e695d7095ed4d43c1dec83945.jpg

tumblr_orcqocdM001wnhn3vo1_400.jpg

 

In terms of the outfits there is literally no comparison.

I actually think the neon green outfit is one of the more innovative pieces she'd ever put on so... I dk I don't have a huge problem with it.

So let's compare the 'less-liked' outfits of both tours-

lady-gaga-performs-during-her-enigma-res

gaga_2426835b.jpg

Personally think the first one is more innovative and better looking.

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Suspiria
2 minutes ago, Bradley said:

I actually think the neon green outfit is one of the more innovative pieces she'd ever put on so... I dk I don't have a huge problem with it.

7c42b96d931d5e9c6af79369b974a7a4.jpg

lady-gaga-enigma-1.jpeg

She literally looks like a clown... but to each their own.

 

Can Gaga hurry up and release LG6 lol, Enigma is causing too many arguments:laughga:

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Rino

I really really feel like she's going for futuristic aesthetics in LG6 era :oprah:

月にかわって、おしおきよ!🌙

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Bradley
Just now, Suspiria said:

7c42b96d931d5e9c6af79369b974a7a4.jpg

lady-gaga-enigma-1.jpeg

She literally looks like a clown... but to each their own.

 

Can Gaga hurry up and release LG6 lol, Enigma is causing too many arguments:laughga:

No she doesn't? She looks like a pop star performing a futuristic set? You're not even trying to like it as you claimed you did. It seems like you try even harder not to like it.

lady-gaga-performs-onstage-during-siriuslady-gaga-performs-during-her-enigma-res

lady-gaga-performs-onstage-during-sirius

lady-gaga-performs-on-new-years-eve-duri

Seems alright to me?

 

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Didymus
35 minutes ago, Bradley said:

You've always had very unusual opinions, but at least you are not hell-bent on proving other people wrong, rather you seek to truly only explain your thoughts as truthfully as possible, so I'm less provoked by you than I am by other people. I mean I knew you were a huge fan of The Fame Ball Tour, so that explains a lot

:runhug:

35 minutes ago, Bradley said:

First of all, which show doesn't rely on video backdrops and lighting in the age of 2010s? Why do we want to remove elements of showmanship from a show? Katy Perry herself has utilised lighting and colourful visuals to her advantage, and I don't understand why you give Perry that benefit but not Gaga?

Because Gaga actively mocked screen-based shows and the artists who did them in 2011 :shrug: Doesn't mean she can't change her mind, of course, but imo Enigma relies far too much on visuals because nothing much else is happening on the ground :flop: It makes me wonder what her artistic input was, exactly, especially when I think of this comment by Eli:

"Gaga and I took some pictures together and she was like, “I’ve got my vegas show coming up and this is what I think I want to do for it.” And because I’m so nuts, I was like "no" and then designed a whole stage and came up with this story and said, “This is how I would do it.” And she was like, “Okay, let’s do it.” It was a beautiful collaboration and I'm honored she let me into her world."

So yeah, we basically know Gaga just took someone else's ideas for everything that happens on the screens and ran with it. So that only leaves the musical arrangements, the choreo and the speeches for Gaga to do something creative, and I find that in 90% of everything that's going on, she just borrowed from earlier tours :koons: You can call that nostalgia, I call that artistic laziness. She already did the nostalgia "let's take a trip to the past and take a look at the future" theme for the BTWB anyway.

35 minutes ago, Bradley said:

Secondly, fine let's talk about musicianship. Mediocre pop vocals? I certainly do not agree. I think she nailed most if not every line of this residency thus far and I've watched tons of videos from both leg 1 and leg 2. Sure there were a couple of lines she didn't really sing, but to say that she did bad in 90% of other parts of the show vocally, I can't agree with.

She doesn't do badly but her vocals are impacted majorly by the fact that she insists on doing choreo almost throughout the show. To me it's always been absurd that she chooses to do this as she's not a professional dancer and always looks a little off compared to her back-up (!) dancers :messga: Like, why let your most important talent (vocals) suffer because of something you can't even execute properly? Esp. when you're not even gonna change up your choreo anyway?

35 minutes ago, Bradley said:

Richard did change many elements of the choreography (LoveGame, The Fame, Dance in the Dark, Poker Face, Just Dance (the bridge)) And I think Gaga gave him a specific instruction that she shouldn't change the fundamental parts of the choreo cause it would take away the essence of nostalgia. Not sure if you've considered that. Like for example, you cannot remove monster/paw dance moves from Bad Romance, and I believe the same for Born This Way.

90% is the same, and also for songs that really don't have as much of an iconic choreo to back up what you're saying here imo. Even Beyoncé who has the most iconic choreos for songs like Crazy in Love always finds a way to do things a little differently so it's not the same thing all over again. I'm always surprised Gaga doesn't think that's worth the effort :ohwell: God knows she must be bored out of her mind doing those numbers for the 1000th time.

Good example is Alejandro:

I mean... that's just not good. What does that choreo add to the show? What does the choreo in all the other numbers add to the show? Nothing. It just makes time pass by :rip:

She used to understand that choreo is only part of a great show. You can't just mindlessly perform some number, if you have a simple setpiece and an amazing outfit you can get away with not being a great dancer because the audience can focus on something else (she did this time and time again until the BTWB which showed the first cracks). Now what can we focus on except her trying to dance and, well, I guess, look at the screens and the lights? It's boring. And why should a Gaga show have to be boring? :saladga:

Comparison with Katy's last tour, one of her biggest hits, let's see what happens:

What do we see?

A new eye-popping choreo that commands attention, a screen that is integrated with what's happening on stage, surprises throughout the song to keep the show moving (stage interaction, that ridiculous yet iconic Left Shark, Katy moving across the stage continuously),...

It's not a great pop performance but at least something's happening. In Enigma all you see is a cute intro, Gaga being static on stage for 4 minutes doing the choreo you've already seen five years ago whlie the screens behind her and the manic lighting around her are apparently what need to convince you you're watching a professionally prepared show :air: At least with Witness I can tell there were a lot of new ideas and a lot of effort that went into designing what would happen in each number. With Gaga it's like "ok, well 60% of the show is the same choreo so we just have to think about how we're gonna tie those old numbers together" :cryga: That doesn't make me happy. Definitely doesn't impress me.

Edited by Didymus
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