Everybody Loves Enigma: Why?

[Miel 15,009]

2 minutes ago, Nino said:

J&P and the JWT are easily her best shows imo.

One thing that made Enigma grow on me a LOT(I hated almost everything about it on the premiere) is that I feel designing such a quintessentially "Gaga" show gives her a clean slate to work with in the future. For the first 10 years of her career she tried to up the ante on every tour. It mostly worked imo seeing the shows live, but on paper the JWT had 6 stages, 5 of which unfolded into screens, the other being a neon rainbow laser piano stage, and the main one having 5 moving platforms and enough pyro to renact the firebombing of Tokyo  I went to the tour twice and while I love Gaga as a performer, she was NOT the main attraction of the show, the show was the main attraction of the show. She couldn't move much on the main stage during numbers like Scheisse that used it's gimmick, and a fair number of the songs were used just to have her travel across the arena to flex how many stages she had  

Enigma has just enough flash to feel like it's Gaga and other than the cringey canned speeches about the simulation, it never gets in the way of her just being herself on stage. Previously she had backed herself into a corner where she needed to have the biggest spectacles of any pop girl ever. Following this up will be a lot easier and allow for more creativity. 

Interesting point of view! I actually thought the opposite, while generally agreeing with the same points- that the stage and its architecture and engineering was very flashy, but mainly utilized to highlight Gaga. Maybe it's only because I looked at it relative to her previous tours, but the almost-complete lack of props (sans the Joanne-era Disco Stick, Piano, and stages themselves) only emphasized Gaga more. It's ability to bring her above, across, and closer to different audience members only highlighted that, in my opinion.

There was something so gorgeous and comfortable about the show- that it felt almost perfect even with the first show, and that I personally didn't anticipate nor want any major changed to occur. It's a very interesting piece in the Gaga pantheon, that I feel like people have already forgotten.

It essentially took all the characteristics of a bombastic classic rock/classic pop stadium show, and took it to a new level. I agree, it is a top-tier show with J + P, in  very different ways.

5 minutes ago, Nino said:

and the main one having 5 moving platforms and enough pyro to renact the firebombing of Tokyo

Honey wait omg I-

[Didymus 34,379]

1 minute ago, Nino said:

I fully disagree   I go to most major pop tours and most people treat their band and dancers like disposable props for interludes. Gaga shows are a whole ass performance from everybody involved.

And Gaga uses them as disposable props during her main numbers as well as her interludes, what's your point?

I don't get why so many fans insist on giving her compliments for things that have nothing to do with putting on a great show Like, does the fact that Gaga smile at her guitarist erase the fact that she's doing the same old choreo and musical arrangement for the vast majority of her songs? It doesn't for me. A show needs to be evaluated like any show is evaluated, not by seeking excuses to make up for its lacking.

And no I don't think Taylor and Drake represent good shows.

[Nino 12]

2 minutes ago, Miel said:

It's a very interesting piece in the Gaga pantheon, that I feel like people have already forgotten.

It really is a shame that liddos did it dirty just because it didn't have hot-topic bait production like the tours that came before it. My second JWT show was one of the best days of my life. 

[Nino 12]

6 minutes ago, Didymus said:

And Gaga uses them as disposable props during her main numbers as well as her interludes, what's your point?

I don't get why so many fans insist on giving her compliments for things that have nothing to do with putting on a great show Like, does the fact that Gaga smile at her guitarist erase the fact that she's doing the same old choreo and musical arrangement for the vast majority of her songs? It doesn't for me. A show needs to be evaluated like any show is evaluated, not by seeking excuses to make up for its lacking.

And no I don't think Taylor and Drake represent good shows.

I was referring to the fact that she leans on them as a main element of the show, instead of just existing to provide a backdrop for her own performance. When you see Enigma in person, there's a HUGE spotlight put on her band the entire time, and they're really entertaining and talented for the most part. It has less to do with smiling at them and more about letting them take stage center at times.

You're coming into any discussion about Enigma with the mindset that it's lacking and needs to be excused so it's going to negatively color anything said about it. I really don't expect anything from a Gaga show other than Gaga showing up, singing songs I want to hear, and giving her all. That's all I want from any show I go to. It's a difference in perspective, one that makes the things the show gets right much more apparent.  

[Didymus 34,379]

2 minutes ago, Nino said:

I was referring to the fact that she leans on them as a main element of the show, instead of just existing to provide a backdrop for her own performance. When you see Enigma in person, there's a HUGE spotlight put on her band the entire time, and they're really entertaining and talented for the most part. It has less to do with smiling at them and more about letting them take stage center at times.

That's really fun and appreciable but she's not a band She barely has "real" instruments in her whole discography. Those are supporting artists we didn't pay for. We came to see the best show Gaga could design and perform

Leaning on your musicians is a great thing if your show is amazing but if I'm supposed to think Enigma is a great show because of something she shouldn't even have to do in the first place, that is just more evidence for me that fans are making **** up to avoid the obvious conclusion: that they may like the show but that it's not necessarily good

4 minutes ago, Nino said:

You're coming into any discussion about Enigma with the mindset that it's lacking and needs to be excused so it's going to negatively color anything said about it. I really don't expect anything from a Gaga show other than Gaga showing up, singing songs I want to hear, and giving her all. That's all I want from any show I go to. It's a difference in perspective, one that makes the things the show gets right much more apparent.  

I don't doubt that she gives her all during the performance, I just don't understand why she doesn't give her all in the design process I couldn't care less about Gaga executing a choreography, I want to see ideas, concepts, art, not a show Britney could've done if she was a bit and only a bit more creative

We know now that Gaga took someone else's stage and storyline ideas, scrapping her own original take on the show, what does that tell you? She didn't care. And it shows.

[Nino 12]

14 minutes ago, Didymus said:

We know now that Gaga took someone else's stage and storyline ideas, scrapping her own original take on the show, what does that tell you? She didn't care. And it shows.

That's half true but she also didn't design the JWT, artRAVE, or BTWB.  She isn't a show designer and scrapped nothing. TAIT keeps full credits up for ALL shows they make stages for, it's publicly available. We also let Boomkack take credit for TMB 2.0 before we decided to turn on her so I wouldn't even call that phase of her career her own design either   The difference is that now she's no longer taking credit for other people's work. Everytime something doesn't turn out the way the more deluded parts of this fanbase would like, they blame it on scrapped work that would have been cOmPlEtElY diFfErEnT. Even if the "but the better album/video/tour/single was scrapped " narrative wasn't entirely made up 90% of the time, there's a reason things end up in their final incarnation. She wouldn't set out to make something worse or easier if she already put the work in.

14 minutes ago, Didymus said:

That's really fun and appreciable but she's not a band She barely has "real" instruments in her whole discography. Those are supporting artists we didn't pay for. We came to see the best show Gaga could design and perform

Leaning on your musicians is a great thing if your show is amazing but if I'm supposed to think Enigma is a great show because of something she shouldn't even have to do in the first place, that is just more evidence for me that fans are making **** up to avoid the obvious conclusion: that they may like the show but that it's not necessarily good

The mental gymnastics of this part of your  post deserves an award. Gaga is a singer-songwriter/occasional dancer. All those talents are on full display at the show. Everything else is extra and given that she's not a fashion designer, choreographer, lighting designer, cg artist, guitar player, drummer, or stage hand herself. I'd say she's doing just fine and the show is great.  

You got it backwards luv. 

You may not like the show but it still features an extremely talented cast and design by people at the top of their industry. The best of the best.

[Economy 46,983]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:53 PM, Brie Candy said:

Because it is a good show and Lady Gaga is such an amazing performer and vocalist.

U ruined it

[Didymus 34,379]

1 minute ago, Nino said:

That's half true but she also didn't design the JWT, artRAVE, or BTWB.  She isn't a show designer

But until JWT she had, at least, a few unique elements that no one else had and I'm beyond sure those were her own ideas No one else could've come up with them.

Even if what you're saying is true, that still doesn't excuse her for saying "ok, fine, let's just do 70% same choreos on the spot, and let's have like only three numbers where something actually happens on stage" and thinking she did a good job while a bunch of computer artists and lighting designers made the best parts of the show for her

She doesn't have to be a show designer to make sure the show she does perform is unique, artistically challenging and worthy of her name on it.

4 minutes ago, Nino said:

The mental gymnastics of this part of your  post deserves an award. Gaga is a singer-songwriter/occasional dancer. All those talents are on full display at the show. Everything else is extra and given that she's not a fashion designer, choreographer, lighting designer, cg artist, guitar player, pianist, drummer, or stage hand herself. I'd say she's doing just fine and the show is great.

Oh so suddenly she's no visionary creative artist anymore? What happened? I thought she was supposed to be different from other pop stars because of her creativity and unique vision Now suddenly when it's not convenient we're downgrading her to a "singer"? Embarrassing.

5 minutes ago, Nino said:

You may not like the show but it still features an extremely talented cast and design by people at the top of their industry. The best of the best.

That doesn't make the show the best of the best. It absolutely pales in comparison to other Vegas residencies and definitely to the recent (and not so recent) shows of her peers and competitors

[Nino 12]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

But until JWT she had, at least, a few unique elements that no one else had and I'm beyond sure those were her own ideas No one else could've come up with them.

Even if what you're saying is true, that still doesn't excuse her for saying "ok, fine, let's just do 70% same choreos on the spot, and let's have like only three numbers where something actually happens on stage" and thinking she did a good job while a bunch of computer artists and lighting designers made the best parts of the show for her

For the JWT, there's several interviews out there with the people involved with creating the show. Gaga did next to nothing.  It was planned during the busiest year of her career so it's understandable.  Something happens on stage with every number, just not something flashy and gimmicky. The performance is the main attraction here.

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Oh so suddenly she's no visionary creative artist anymore? What happened? I thought she was supposed to be different from other pop stars because of her creativity and unique vision Now suddenly when it's not convenient we're downgrading her to a "singer"? Embarrassing

Don't put words in my mouth. Gaga is a fantastic musician and performer. What's embarrassing is you clinging onto the labels we put on her when we were all kids and honestly believed she conceptualized everything when there's full credits out there  

5 minutes ago, Didymus said:

That doesn't make the show the best of the best. It absolutely pales in comparison to other Vegas residencies and definitely to the recent (and not so recent) shows of her peers and competitors

I'm not sure which Vegas residencies you're comparing it to? Because Celine's stage design is pretty bland and I saw Piece Of Me live and it wasn't that special and those are considered the two biggest Vegas acts. As for her peers, other than Witness The Tour, I can't think of a single recent main pop girl tour that had the same entertainment value as Enigma, let alone the talent involved.  

Again you're coming in with the mindset that it's already bad and needs to be excused. You're close-minded in other words. Which is totally fine but admit that you personally don't like it and move on  The show itself is fine.

[Didymus 34,379]

1 hour ago, Nino said:

For the JWT, there's several interviews out there with the people involved with creating the show. Gaga did next to nothing.

When I said "until the JWT" I didn't mean to include it

1 hour ago, Nino said:

Something happens on stage with every number, just not something flashy and gimmicky. The performance is the main attraction here.

The performance of the choreos we've seen for years, yes  What a great thing to use as a centerpiece.

And how is using a vaguely designed hand-operated robot to stand on for three minutes not gimmicky? Or a basic remake of a stand-out setpiece of old (the sphere) to float around the audience, crying about how mean the paparazzi are?

1 hour ago, Nino said:

Don't put words in my mouth. Gaga is a fantastic musician and performer. What's embarrassing is you clinging onto the labels we put on her when we were all kids and honestly believed she conceptualized everything when there's full credits out there

She always said there was a design team behind her and that they did everything together though No secrets there. She even compared the Haus to Warhol's factory in the past, that's almost like literally saying you're taking credit for someone else's ideas We always knew (well, the smart ones of us) she wasn't this visionary artiste but we could at least count on her to do something different and fresh each time and to raise the bar for her peers Why suddenly deny that now?

And again, you don't need to be a genius Kanye West to realize that after performing the same choreos to half the songs in your setlist 100x over and over, it might be time for a ****ing change Just like she hasn't reinvented her musical arrangements which even the most basic stars do at this point. All of that has nothing to do with other people producing the show, that's just a distraction argument.

[Nino 12]

45 minutes ago, Didymus said:

And how is using a vaguely designed hand-operated robot to stand on for three minutes not gimmicky? Or a basic remake of a stand-out setpiece of old (the sphere) to float around the audience, crying about how mean the paparazzi are?

They're gimmicks, they just go away and she gets back to being an entertainer instead of a mannequin for other people's props, instead of past tours like TBTWB where she'd put one gimmicky prop away and bring out another for the next song  

45 minutes ago, Didymus said:

We always knew (well, the smart ones of us) she wasn't this visionary artiste

2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Oh so suddenly she's no visionary creative artist anymore? What happened? I thought she was supposed to be different from other pop stars because of her creativity and unique vision

Which is it? Embarrassing.

45 minutes ago, Didymus said:

And again, you don't need to be a genius Kanye West to realize that after performing the same choreos to half the songs in your setlist 100x over and over, it might be time for a ****ing change Just like she hasn't reinvented her musical arrangements which even the most basic stars do at this point. All of that has nothing to do with other people producing the show, that's just a distraction argument.

Pop stars with choreo this iconic stick with it. She throws in enough new steps for the songs that people don't come in with an expectation for.  Look at songs like Government Hooker and The Fame. Of course she's going to be serving rah rah paws with Bad Romance and messy slut with Poker Face until the day she dies, moron  

Since we're talking about distraction arguments though, I have to clarify what I originally meant in every new post and I'm getting tired of this ridiculous argument where you pretend to not understand a word I'm saying so you can find an imaginary angle of attack for the show. How embarrassing to be the grown man who probably can't afford to see the show talking about the standards of performance when her, her band, her dancers, and the show director are all the best in the industry.. I don't know what you form your opinions off of, but it obviously aint the performance itself. If you want choreography and flashy visuals might I suggest a kpop show? Or JoJo Siwa? Because I'm done trying to have a reasonable conversation with somebody who's physically incapable of admitting that his personal opinion isn't fact and that the massive number of fans flocking to the show and giving it rave reviews aren't the delusional ones.  It's impossible to do. You aren't honest 

[Didymus 34,379]

7 minutes ago, Nino said:

I'm done trying to have a reasonable conversation with somebody who's physically incapable of admitting that his personal opinion isn't fact and that the massive number of fans flocking to the show and giving it rave reviews aren't the delusional ones.  It's impossible to do. You aren't honest 

I'm genuinely sorry if I come across that way but I never ever said (or thought) my opinion was fact lol. If there's one thing I'm just a little bit proud of it's that I can always admit my opinion is my own and that others are entitled to theirs I've posted I'm happy that fans are enjoying the show more than anyone here, but that doesn't stop me from having a different opinion about it.

Anyway, I'll back off if you're that uninterested in carrying on the conversation. But just for the record, I do not think I'm superior to anyone. And I really don't appreciate the "you probably can't afford" diss wtf is that sis? Don't say **** like that.

[FentyGa 14,340]

i have never understood the people on here hating on enigma

y'all wanted gaga to do something daring again, to leave the joanne hat and the ballads at home, to bring back 2009-2011 Gaga. And that's what she did. The wig (despite being flat) is straight out of the Born This Way era, the fashion is dark and fun and interesting, the visuals are beautiful, and she even brought back Dance In The Dark which y'all have been asking for since the Monster Ball Tour ended

Besides the lack of Marry The Night and a better wig, there's literally no flaws lol

y'all are allowed to not like it personally, but the incessant hate is just unnecessary, especially for people who probably won't see the show

continue seething and watching LQ videos from your bedrooms

[Enigma 7,182]

Because I’m born that likeable 

[Magui 2,623]

Lord have mercy🙏