Is Gaga still an idea leader?

[Sid 6,755]

Hi guys! First off, not bashing. This is related to an in-depth conversation I had in real life. 

Do you still consider Lady Gaga an 'innovator' or idea leader? Obviously TF/M was revolutionary in many ways, both musically and visually. By the time Bad Romance came out, competition from anyone else was simply impossible. You can't deny Gaga changed the entire pop music landscape in the 2010s. 

After this, we're off to her next big idea: Born This Way. Arguably her most memorable era to date, she once again revolutionized pop music by fusing it with a bold, progressive message of love and equality that wasn't present in music or much of pop culture at that point. And the visuals, I don't even need to mention  we even got the BTW Foundation! 

Following BTW, we saw her split from her management. Everything following this point has been arguably 'safe' from a cultural standpoint. ARTPOP, while full of amazing EDM tracks about love, sex and drugs, was similar to much of the music on the radio by that time, and the cultural message on the album was so twisted and convoluted that I'm not sure even Gaga knows what ARTPOP means in depth (anything, apparently). The 'merging of pop and art' never took off and that message was abandoned early in the album campaign, and the deeper meaning of GUY wasn't explored much outside of the video.

C2C is fun and I love it, but let's face it: jazz is not revolutionary. I imagine any number of artists could release a jazz album and it would do well. It's been well discussed that it was an image cleanser/therapy for Gaga, and it doesn't seem to go far beyond that.

Fast forward a few years, and we have Joanne. Obviously this album was not intended to have the grand, overarching cohesion that the others had, but it also didn't bring anything new to the table musically. Hey Girl and Angel Down are the only two tracks that would make a cultural impact, but they weren't given any single treatment, even though one featured another artist! 

So what do you think, will LG6 be a return to the paradigm-shifting style of album that made her so iconic? Is Lady Gaga still at the forefront of pop music? 

[River 117,262]

Joanne actually had more impact than you think, the "simple" idea was actually pretty shocking and controversial for a singer like Gaga and it had a great impact, many singers started to dress simple and to make less EDM music, suddenly we are getting more songs with 90's-early 00's kind of pop.

 

[LateToCult 40,909]

1 hour ago, River said:

Joanne actually had more impact than you think, the "simple" idea was actually pretty shocking and controversial for a singer like Gaga and it had a great impact, many singers started to dress simple and to make less EDM music, suddenly we are getting more songs with 90's-early 00's kind of pop.

 

I can’t remember the episode so I’ll delete for now because I want to get the quote right.

[Sid 6,755]

3 minutes ago, River said:

Joanne actually had more impact than you think, the "simple" idea was actually pretty shocking and controversial for a singer like Gaga and it had a great impact, many singers started to dress simple and to make less EDM music, suddenly we are getting more songs with 90's-early 00's kind of pop.

 

I get what you mean, Miley definitely ripped a page out of her book, but I honestly can't think of any other radio songs that are similar. The trap and 90s vibe right now was definitely not present on Joanne.

[KatieJudasGaga4 67,907]

14 minutes ago, Sid said:

I imagine any number of artists could release a jazz album and it would do well.

It may do well, but it wouldn't have been as praised as Gaga's to be honest or well acclaimed. Gaga did C2C right after ARTPOP, even during ARTPOP. Critics were shocked on Gaga's vocal abilities and how versatile she was. Yes, artists can release a jazz album and it would do well, however, I don't think it would have the same acclaim Cheek to Cheek would have.

[AlexanderMagno 10,746]

4 minutes ago, River said:

Joanne actually had more impact than you think, the "simple" idea was actually pretty shocking and controversial for a singer like Gaga and it had a great impact, many singers started to dress simple and to make less EDM music, suddenly we are getting more songs with 90's-early 00's kind of pop.

 

I don’t agree. I think the “simple” idea started much sooner, back to Adele’s incredible success. The only pop artist who was not “simple” was Miley, but she came from a whole different place, being a teen pop artist who was rebelling from her roots. But Gaga tried to succeed with an old formula, releasing ARTPOP, and she failed. And then C2C and Joanne happened.

 

As it has been said for years now, looking back it seems that her best ideas were the result of an amazing team. You can’t justify her sudden fall from high-concept ideas simply for lack of money or support, since she has both. Her last “big” ideas came from ARTPOP’s scrapped plans, who went down after Troy left.

I do think that Gaga herself is a woman of simpler ideas. She’s not incredibly revolutionary herself (I mean, she is of course, but she’s not the creator of revolutionary ideas, she’s the vessel for those ideas).

[SHALLOW 16,425]

I'm sorry but ARTPOP was the best idea she's ever had. The timing and public were not on her side but that's the only reason it underperformed.

BTW was not an idea imo and is very overrated.

Joanne was a bold move imo and i appreciate it, also cause it showed me a whole new side of her.

I think she can still do it with LG6 

[Sam98 1,896]

43 minutes ago, AlexanderMagno said:

I don’t agree. I think the “simple” idea started much sooner, back to Adele’s incredible success. The only pop artist who was not “simple” was Miley, but she came from a whole different place, being a teen pop artist who was rebelling from her roots. But Gaga tried to succeed with an old formula, releasing ARTPOP, and she failed. And then C2C and Joanne happened.

 

As it has been said for years now, looking back it seems that her best ideas were the result of an amazing team. You can’t justify her sudden fall from high-concept ideas simply for lack of money or support, since she has both. Her last “big” ideas came from ARTPOP’s scrapped plans, who went down after Troy left.

I do think that Gaga herself is a woman of simpler ideas. She’s not incredibly revolutionary herself (I mean, she is of course, but she’s not the creator of revolutionary ideas, she’s the vessel for those ideas).

This is possibly the interpretation I thought I'd never read on here tbh  by saying this, you're basically stripping her from her own creativity, but she has, in my opinion, a too complicated mind to not think of her as THE artist behind her products.

The fact that her creativity changed so much during the second half of her career is naturally due to her growing up and colliding with the reality surrounding her and the rest of the world. How could she still have the same mindset of ten years ago? You can't expect that. She was young and hopefully convinced she could change the world, and she arguably did, but then things happen and they change how you view yourself and your world. 

Her team was abviously a huge component of her success and artistic outcome, but I will always strongly believe she has always been the prime mover of it all

[Peace 1,588]

No

[androiduser 7,438]

55 minutes ago, River said:

Joanne actually had more impact than you think, the "simple" idea was actually pretty shocking and controversial for a singer like Gaga and it had a great impact, many singers started to dress simple and to make less EDM music, suddenly we are getting more songs with 90's-early 00's kind of pop.

 

that's absolutely not true.... Simpler styles and personas started with Adele and Ed Sheeran.. it' just that some Gaga fans weren't aware because all they know is Gaga.

Joanne didn't influence anything, sorry.

[Sam98 1,896]

1 minute ago, SHALLOW said:

I'm sorr but ARTPOP was the best idea she's ever had. The timing and public were not on her side but that's the only reason it underperformed.

Honestly, the concept behind ARTPOP changed so many times that it had lost any sense before even being put out. Like, at first it dealt with the "decade of the star" or something like that, then ot switched to "bringing ART to the front of POP through technology" which doesn't say absolutely anything like... what does that even mean in terms of execution?! Moreover, nothing of all of this was even reflected in the music! ARTPOP is an album full of songs that have nothing to do with the concept she was talking about. 

The internal architecture of the tracklist is actually well thought, with songs seemingly flowing in groups of three and ordered as if they followed you during a night out of some sort, HOWEVER there's still nothing of the concept about ART and POP etc. It was and still is confusing as hell, even though I really like the music itself

[Sam98 1,896]

6 minutes ago, androiduser said:

that's absolutely not true.... Simpler styles and personas started with Adele and Ed Sheeran.. it' just that some Gaga fans weren't aware because all they know is Gaga.

Joanne didn't influence anything, sorry.

mmh I'd say she was good enough to anticipate a little the unexpected wave of country-influenced pop that was already in the making when Joanne came out but was only published after, so that Joanne did indeed arrive some months ahead of that

[Jill 30,258]

8 minutes ago, androiduser said:

Joanne didn't influence anything, sorry.

It's crazy to say that when Younger Now, Man of the Woods, and others exist

[Sid 6,755]

16 minutes ago, Sam98 said:

Honestly, the concept behind ARTPOP changed so many times that it had lost any sense before even being put out. Like, at first it dealt with the "decade of the star" or something like that, then ot switched to "bringing ART to the front of POP through technology" which doesn't say absolutely anything like... what does that even mean in terms of execution?! Moreover, nothing of all of this was even reflected in the music! ARTPOP is an album full of songs that have nothing to do with the concept she was talking about. 

The internal architecture of the tracklist is actually well thought, with songs seemingly flowing in groups of three and ordered as if they followed you during a night out of some sort, HOWEVER there's still nothing of the concept about ART and POP etc. It was and still is confusing as hell, even though I really like the music itself

Wow, if I wrote a review of ARTPOP it would be this  my thoughts exactly

[androiduser 7,438]

13 minutes ago, The Bad Joker said:

It's crazy to say that when Younger Now, Man of the Woods, and others exist

Miley's father is a country singer, her godmother is country legend Dolly Parton... it's insane to think that Gaga had any country-pop influence on her