Trump’s new Islamophobic tweet

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6 minutes ago, Didymus said:

You're definitely right. I don't live in the US but I picked up the same thing from my own readings, most recently this particularly relevant article from Politifact.

I guess I'm talking more about the public visibility of that pro-border security stance. Hillary, for instance, is widely known for supporting a border wall and yet it seemed she was so actively trying to distance herself (and thus the Democratic Party) from Trump's proposal that we got that infamous "What is the difference between your idea and Donald Trump’s idea on building a wall with Mexico?" question where she really struggled to explain her position, and that awkward "maybe some of it was a wall" answer has been ammo for Republicans ever since.

I'm not saying that Hillary has been inconsistent in her political views (she hasn't been imo) but there does seem to be a lack of emphasis on these issues that Republicans are picking up and using to add fuel to the anti-left fire. If it was clearly and publicly established that someone like Hillary was also in favor of physical border control then that wouldn't be a possibility, and Trump's whole fear mongering tactic maybe wouldn't be so effective. I don't know, it's not that important, just a thought about a general issue I've picked up on, especially in European politics. I think left wingers often fall in the trap of using a moralistic stance against right wing arguments, which gives off the by now cliché impression that they don't have relevant practical ideas and just wanna be Gutmenschen.

Hillary didn’t want a wall across 2,000 miles. The Republicans don’t want it either. They had two years to vote for funding for Trump’s wall. They refused to throw money at Trump’s vanity project. 

Both parties have practical ideas and solutions and have been voting on funding for security for decades now. Trump is making up an “emergency” that simply doesn’t exist. 

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2 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

 

He is humanophobic .... 🤢🤮

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47 minutes ago, Alii said:

The word islamophobic is ridiculous. Can we stop using it already? 

 

Nope.

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@Didymus To your point, the fencing on the border is minimal compared to what Trump has proposed. I don’t think anyone is against the current border fencing. It’s located in key areas, much of it separating US cities and Mexican cities. It probably has done its job in aiding with border security just fine.

Democrats are not against border security, as the right-wing talking point would have you believe. That particular talking point has been very effective though. We all know politics isn’t always so much about truth and facts, but about what works to garner support. Trump has played this very well... with his base. 

The wall would just be a total waste of money, plain and simple. Better border security doesn’t have to mean a wall that’s just quite honestly unrealistic for many different factors.

The truth is, Trump knows this border wall is one of the key things that won him the presidency. I have personally seen the anti-immigrant sentiment grow in this country for over a decade. It was bound to get to this point. Trump is terrified if he doesn’t deliver on this promise somehow, he will not be re-elected. 

[Didymus 34,380]

33 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

@Didymus To your point, the fencing on the border is minimal compared to what Trump has proposed. I don’t think anyone is against the current border fencing. It’s located in key areas, much of it separating US cities and Mexican cities. It probably has done its job in aiding with border security just fine.

Democrats are not against border security, as the right-wing talking point would have you believe. That particular talking point has been very effective though. We all know politics isn’t always so much about truth and facts, but about what works to garner support. Trump has played this very well... with his base.  
The wall would just be a total waste of money, plain and simple. Better border security doesn’t have to mean a wall that’s just quite honestly unrealistic for many different factors.

The truth is, Trump knows this border wall is one of the key things that won him the presidency. I have personally seen the anti-immigrant sentiment grow in this country for over a decade. It was bound to get to this point. Trump is terrified if he doesn’t deliver on this promise somehow, he will not be re-elected. 

100% agreed. I'm just zooming on why Trump's scare tactics work and why the right-wing talking point believes just that: that Democrats are against border security. I think that might have to do something with the mainly moral and emotional responses from the left to the wall proposal, Trump and the issue of immigration in general. I think it adds fuel to the fire and is a big reason why this Gutmensch cliché of the left wing keeps persisting in right wing circles.

[Morphine Prince 109,926]

26 minutes ago, Didymus said:

100% agreed. I'm just zooming on why Trump's scare tactics work and why the right-wing talking point believes just that: that Democrats are against border security. I think that might have to do something with the mainly moral and emotional responses from the left to the wall proposal, Trump and the issue of immigration in general. I think it adds fuel to the fire and is a big reason why this Gutmensch cliché of the left wing keeps persisting in right wing circles.

Well, obviously being against TRUMP’s wall is a political tactic from the left but it’s also made out to be a moral one. 

On the moral side, I have to say I think it’s the way Trump has presented this wall to the world. It’s a symbol of separation and just straight up xenophobia and racism - to us on the left. 

Can a wall be immoral? I’d say yes, depending on why such a structure is being built. But I’m a liberal, so take it as you will.

However, I don’t love some of the rhetoric such as “this is against American values” etc. You could argue a xenophobic symbol IS consistent with most of American history. Let’s face it, most of American history is filled with death, racism, abuse, etc. We are far from a perfect or moral nation. That’s not a popular thing to say among Americans, but I believe that to be the truth. 

Look, if a Republican had simply come out saying we need better border security, I’d be down 100%. Many Democrats believe the same. Obviously drug and human trafficking are issues. But many of us also see the human side of immigrants trying to come over to have a better life - something ignored and ridiculed by many American conservatives. 

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4 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

On the moral side, I have to say I think it’s the way Trump has presented this wall to the world. It’s a symbol of separation and just straight up xenophobia and racism - to us on the left.

Agreed.

But I know from personal experience how easily and how fast this can be spun by right wingers as naïvety in a "I'm not a racist but there are real dangers and the left is sitting there and doing nothing!" style, and it's that kneejerk reaction I'm becoming more and more worried about. It gives the far right an aura of rationality and seriousness compared to a moralistic and removed-from-empirical reality left one, a cliché we really don't need, and one that is really dangerous imo.

That's why I prefer less emotional and distanced leftist discourse that focuses more on the actual issues rather than "values" or whatever. But I don't know... it's just something I've worried about for far too long probably lol. I just don't like seeing left and right wing people talk against each other rather than with each other (and I have some experience 'cause my bf is like a total right winger and talking about politics is almost automatically a fight).

Great post though, lovely presentation of arguments as always