The Presentation of Joanne/ASIB

[NotMyFlop 1,979]

Joanne and A Star Is Born,  for better and worse, are more mature albums than their predecessors. The ambition of these projects is to appeal a more adult-contemporary audience and produce 'higher quality' music that strays away from gimmicks from her previous eras. No matter what you believe the success of their aim was, there are albums we now consume as monsters. Personally, I love both albums. They're more reflective of the time I am in my life, much as the previous albums did. I am so glad Gaga has evolved and been able to do what she wants, but something has been nagging at me since 2016 - it largely how she discusses these projects compared to her early pop-driven efforts. 

In all fairness, A Star Is Born should not be considered within my argument since it was made for a movie, a studio, a character, and a story. It's perfectly understandable that A Star is Born should be presented as such: it's not technically a 'Gaga' album.

However, she has discussed A Star is Born in a similar capacity to how she discussed Joanne (although more subtle): she describes them as 'authentic' music, music that inherently means more to her; higher-quality music. The most famous example is in Five Foot Two when she describes that Joanne has allowed her to be more personal with fans in a way she has never been before. Sure, Gaga has stripped off the costumes, theatricality, and shock-value that was the backbone of her early career, but is it really more personal? 

In all honesty, I don't really care about how every album is personal. I think they're all uniquely personal: from reflecting her ambition(s), values, experiences and family, she has always been personal in her work. 

When she discusses this though, she almost sounds as if she is discrediting her previous work. Although it hasn't been explicitly said, there is one interview (I'm desperately trying to find it) where she insinuates that her previous records aren't that good/gimmicky or immature. 

That bothers me, immensely. I understand that she has grown, evolved and may be more critical of her previous albums. In all honesty, she should be. Gaga should always push for greatness. But... to discredit those albums and dismiss them seems rude. These albums mean so much to the fanbase and people around the world, and it disheartens me seeing her almost not be proud of those records. 

I saw a thread a while back that was related to this topic - people discussed how she is not the best when interviewed and her presentation often is misaligned with what she actually means, and I do think that's a fair critique. We wouldn't have '99 people in a room...' or 'I'm my father's daughter...' if she was excellent at interviewing. I do think there is a hesitation in interviewing, and I have witnessed times where I think she stumbles over herself. However, this point has been said throughout the past two years in various ways. Deep down, to some capacity, she believes what she has repeated so much. 

Has anyone else noticed this? Am I reading way too deep into this? 

Much love. 

[Bling 31,469]

First I'll say, I totally understand what you mean 100%. 

But second, I remember seeing her discuss this topic several times during the Joanne era where she said something along the lines of "that's not to say my previous albums weren't me" or "I'm not saying 'this is the real me and my albums before weren't' " (I'm pretty sure these are from radio interviews for PI)

 I think the 5F2 doc touched on this as well in the middle when she's taking about growing up in the industry and leaving your past behind. Just because you move on doesn't mean you don't love what you created before. But she's over 30 now, this is what she wants to create. What she did in her 20's was what she felt was appropriate for that time and people/artists grow and change over time.  And I think the weird-ness of ENIGMA (even though it's NOWHERE NEAR TF, TFM, BTW, ARTPOP weird-ness, it's given me hope that future projects will be reminiscent of her previous experimental work. 

[Bio 23,538]

She wrote them so she can view them as she wants lol

[GoneGUY 858]

She also said recently when asked what she wanted to be remembered for, her answer was the message on Born This Way. I think you're reading too much into it tbh.

I think it just means she had more control over Joanne and even now ASIB than she ever had before so it is more authentic to her and the sound and songs she wanted. I dont think shes discrediting any of her work.

Shes allowed to not like some of her previous work as much as then. I'm sure all of us would agree we dont like some songs like we used to simply because they sound dated or they got old. It doesnt mean it's not important to her.

She knows those albums are what made her who she is. I just believe shes the type of person that listens back to older things she did and thinks of ways she could have done better, and that can be frustrating. Shes a perfectionist. 

Also, tbh (other than BTW), The Fame, TFM, and ARTPOP are all primarily fun dance music with a couple personal songs. Joanne would naturally be more personal considering the subject matters she touches on are different.

 

[FfFfFfFF 56,270]

21 minutes ago, Acsnpdx8 said:

First I'll say, I totally understand what you mean 100%. 

But second, I remember seeing her discuss this topic several times during the Joanne era where she said something along the lines of "that's not to say my previous albums weren't me" or "I'm not saying 'this is the real me and my albums before weren't' " (I'm pretty sure these are from radio interviews for PI)

 I think the 5F2 doc touched on this as well in the middle when she's taking about growing up in the industry and leaving your past behind. Just because you move on doesn't mean you don't love what you created before. But she's over 30 now, this is what she wants to create. What she did in her 20's was what she felt was appropriate for that time and people/artists grow and change over time.  And I think the weird-ness of ENIGMA (even though it's NOWHERE NEAR TF, TFM, BTW, ARTPOP weird-ness, it's given me hope that future projects will be reminiscent of her previous experimental work. 

She also said her fans know her previous albums are as personal as Joanne, at a JWT date I think.

[MaryJaneHolland 77,348]

She's just trying to sell the album, it's normal 

[That J 12,166]

If she didnt have faith in her older music, she could have easily done a Madonna Drowned World type show where she literally only performed 3 of her older classics. I think she respects all of her work and has a fondness for them all but there are always going to be some that just come from a place that feels perfect at that time. Not to mention its normal to really love your latest stuff more because it's new.

She also has more personal  control than ever which adds to it.  

They all represent a time in her life and therefore will always be special to her in different ways. 

[2School4Cool 6,449]

I understand what you are saying, and I don’t remember what interview you are referencing where she discredits previous work, but I personally haven’t noticed her criticizing past albums. I think as an artist, relations with past work is bound to change. For example, the Born This Way Ball was an immensely difficult, painful time in her personal life. It’s possible that as a result, some songs on that album may bring back negative emotions. I think Gaga is proud of her work, or else she wouldn’t be bringing back Scheiße, Bloody Mary, Government Hooker, The Fame, etc into her most recent tours/shows. It’s not uncommon for artists to be especially proud of what they’re working on at that moment. As for her claiming it’s her most personal, I don’t think she’s saying her past work is less personal, Joanne is just personal in a different sense. It’s personal to her in terms of sharing family stories and things like that.