PunkTheFunk 124,425 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, hausofcy said: i'm just saying that no one associates zwarte piet as something related to slavery, black people and racism. Yes they do. "In Amsterdam, most opposition towards the character is found among the Ghanaian, Antillean and Dutch-Surinamese communities, with 50% of the Surinamese considering the figure to be discriminatory to others, whereas 27% consider the figure to be discriminatory towards themselves." http://www.ois.amsterdam.nl/pdf/2013_zwarte piet.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet Black people find Zwarte Piet to be racist, but white people don't think its racist, so it must be okay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Sanne Godijn said: Oh oke thank you for your kind response what did it say originally? My post asking about your point wasn't meant in a snarky way, it was a serious question, cuz we were kinda saying the same thing, sorry if it came across like that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyZiggs 30,060 Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 hour ago, DutchHooker said: OMG, This topic... I'm not going to start an arguement, but I'm pro Black-Pete and I'll defend him till I close the coffin. The people need to accept our culture and stop being so SJW, because we'll just continue. The people and the media who bow to them are just weak. Ofc u don’t lmfao why? Cuz You’re WHITE and why would it matter to u when it’s not your people who are portrayed as caricatures of themselves. And let’s not act like the Dutch are angels. I still remember that show Ushi where a whole ass white woman dressed up as a japenese woman to interview celebs, y’all thought that was ok too. This is like a straight begot saying ‘ I WILL DEFEND MY RIGHT TO OPPOSE SAME SEX MARRIAGE CUZ MaRRiAgE iS Bw A MaN and a woMaN’ stop being so SJW? Lol how is this sjw when Dutch black people find it offensive and there’s a WHOLE argument that was even debated in the UN? Lol weak? Imagine if people had said this in the Jim Crow days. There’d be no progress. and imagine fighting for something SO SILLY and offensive to a whole community til u cLOsE THe CofFIn, when it can easily be remedied. Cant relate, cuz I’m sippin on my progress juice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanne Godijn 2,203 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, BadMonster said: what did it say originally? My post asking about your point wasn't meant in a snarky way, it was a serious question, cuz we were kinda saying the same thing, sorry if it came across like that! You didnt i thankt you for your kind response Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathanholland 5,321 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said: and why would it matter to u when it’s not your people who are portrayed as caricatures of themselves. And let’s not act like the Dutch are angels. I still remember that show Ushi where a whole ass white woman dressed up as a japenese woman to interview celebs, y’all thought that was ok too. While I understand what you're saying about that Ushi program, I need to say that there is a fine line between making fun for the sake of comedy and making fun of other people or cultures. I think the Ushi program wasn't intended to be racist in any way, although I heard that actress say she wouldn't do it anymore nowadays because she understands people might object. Spoiler Also: I still pee my pants because of the Adele episode The Jim Crow laws are of a completely different kind tho, by far not comparable. Before there was love, there was silence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorrgh 679 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said: Ofc u don’t lmfao why? Cuz You’re WHITE and why would it matter to u when it’s not your people who are portrayed as caricatures of themselves. And let’s not act like the Dutch are angels. I still remember that show Ushi where a whole ass white woman dressed up as a japenese woman to interview celebs, y’all thought that was ok too. This is like a straight begot saying ‘ I WILL DEFEND MY RIGHT TO OPPOSE SAME SEX MARRIAGE CUZ MaRRiAgE iS Bw A MaN and a woMaN’ stop being so SJW? Lol how is this sjw when Dutch black people find it offensive and there’s a WHOLE argument that was even debated in the UN? Lol weak? Imagine if people had said this in the Jim Crow days. There’d be no progress. and imagine fighting for something SO SILLY and offensive to a whole community til u cLOsE THe CofFIn, when it can easily be remedied. Cant relate, cuz I’m sippin on my progress juice THIS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysatan 293 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 4 hours ago, JonathanHolland1 said: While I do agree it's racist and Black Pete should be abolished the tradion arguement is not that unfounded. People need to understand every boy and girl in the Netherlands grew up with Saint Nicolas and Black Pete as childhood heroes. The Petes go through the Chimney and put presents in children's shoes. While it's absolutely no arguement for racism it explains why people here feel so offended by the assaults on Black Pete. The discussion is growing stronger each year and chances are slowly being made. While I understand Black Pete looks massively racist if you're not familiar with the story, you should keep in mind 99% of the people here have always viewed him as a child friend and these people should have time to learn seeing him for what he really is. And didn't white people grew up with the confederate flag in the US back in the days? I'm sorry but that's not an argument to justify white people wearing black face. It is a dated tradition that needs to be updated after the times we live in. Period. It is NEVER ok for a white person to use black face to resemble a black person, never. I don't know why that's so hard for people to understand but i'll say it again, it is NEVER ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM 4,067 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 2 hours ago, JonathanHolland1 said: The Netherlands has a colonial heritage but so do all the other European nations. Most of the European countries never had a colony actually... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathanholland 5,321 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 18 minutes ago, babysatan said: And didn't white people grew up with the confederate flag in the US back in the days? I'm sorry but that's not an argument to justify white people wearing black face. It is a dated tradition that needs to be updated after the times we live in. Period. It is NEVER ok for a white person to use black face to resemble a black person, never. I don't know why that's so hard for people to understand but i'll say it again, it is NEVER ok. I never said that it's a legitimate reason, nor do I justify anything. Don't accuse me of that. I only try to explain why Black Pete isn't immediately abolished and why people need time. I don't like it if you or anyone else compares this to the confederation or Jim Crow Laws. I know the American history and you can't say or suggest people in the Netherlands are acting like those filthy people did back then. These dutch people don't intend to do anyone harm but are only interested in celebrating a tradition they grew up with. Things will chance, but you can't expect people to just abolish their traditions overnight. Before there was love, there was silence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathanholland 5,321 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, LM said: Most of the European countries never had a colony... Sorry, wrong choice of words. I meant many other countries. Before there was love, there was silence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aga Gydal 3,158 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 3 hours ago, DutchHooker said: OMG, This topic... I'm not going to start an arguement, but I'm pro Black-Pete and I'll defend him till I close the coffin. The people need to accept our culture and stop being so SJW, because we'll just continue. The people and the media who bow to them are just weak. Black people have been exploited, manipulated, enslaved, and caricatured since the beginning of time by white people and everyone needs to keep this in mind anytime our precious “culture” is called out. Sometimes the right thing to do is listen to why things you do are hurtful to others and try to be compassionate and understanding. Don’t give me this “sensitive” bullshit. Don’t be a **** head and acknowledge that your culture is not infallible. That makes YOU the sensitive one, actually. And this goes for everyone here, including mine. We’re trying to challenge people to think smarter about humanity and how we’re contributing to it. Refusing to listen or being defensive is not helping anyone here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 20 years later and it seems the conversation hasnt evolved at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaMariaSpears 1,627 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 hour ago, hausofcy said: Can't you just accept the fact that every country has different issues with racism? In Greece there's racism towards Albanians. In Belgium towards muslims. In America well don't let me start with that country. And I live in Belgium and I can assure you that racism towards black people is practically non existent. Just because you don't see or experience racism, that doesn't mean it's nonexistent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwings 12,885 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 This thread has been very interesting to me because I was totally unfamiliar with this tradition, and I love learning about holiday traditions in other countries. That being said, though... yeah, this is totally racist. I don't care if it's your feel good nostalgic tradition. It's very racist. I live in the Southern U.S. All the excuses I keep hearing sound so similar to the arguments people use to support their right to fly the confederate flag: "It's not about hate! It has nothing to do with racism or slavery! It's just part of our heritage! It's a tradition!" If that excuse doesn't fly, then these other ones shouldn't either. And yes, of course I know about the insidious history of slavery and racism in the U.S., but the Dutch participated in the slave trade too, so you can't claim non-equivalence. If indeed he is supposed to be "black" because of soot, then he should look like a white guy with soot on him, not a caricature that is very reminiscent of Jim Crow propaganda from the U.S. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cailleach 2,974 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Interesting story ... When I was younger, I watched a movie with Black Pete in it, and I looked him up to find out more about him, but for some weird reason, gay p0rn came up instead, and that’s how I found out about gay p0rn That's not very born this way of you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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