Vox - ASIB and Rape Culture

[SEANGT 5,294]

3 hours ago, RabbitHeart said:

I thought the point of their relationship was that it was co-dependent, which is what exacerbated the uh...problems that arose toward the end of the film.

Gaga has definitely said that the movie is about co-dependence......................so their relationship isn't supposed to be perfectly healthy for either of them. I think everything they read into was done intentionally to stress this point?

Yeah, it was a toxic relationship. I think the article is correct in it's interpretation ... Except they missed the part where it's on purpose. Lol.

[That J 12,166]

While I think the article is ridiculous, bring on these words!!!  All it does is make people curious and if it sells tickets then so be it.   Lol

[Tyler1992 2,264]

4 hours ago, Pierre said:

It's. A. Movie.

Imagine if all the movies were made to please SJW and everybody 

There wouldn't be movies if that was the case. There is ALWAYS  something SJW will come up with that they don't agree with. they complain for the sake of complaining. Its best to ignore them.

[Pierre 10,480]

10 minutes ago, Tyler1992 said:

There wouldn't be movies if that was the case. There is ALWAYS  something SJW will come up with that they don't agree with. they complain for the sake of complaining. Its best to ignore them.

They also need to sit about casting roles. Gaga is their target cuz according to the film Ursula is a black woman, however, according to the same movie the little mermaid is white and they were supporting Zendaya. Wtf is wrong with them.

[wahkeenasitka 1,995]

I think this is actually very interesting and insightful. 

Keep in mind, the original version of the story came out in the 30s, and the second adaptation came out in the 50s. This story, really is created in the bubble of pre-feminism. And I would say the story itself does imply that women must rely on men for their success. 

[funkmedowntown 1,136]

34 minutes ago, wahkeenasitka said:

 And I would say the story itself does imply that women must rely on men for their success. 

I can see that line of logic, but is that really a fair statement about the film or the story? I understand that movies today are expected to be relevant to a larger cultural moment but at the same time, the story of ASIB doesn’t HAVE to be concerned with that. It shows a flawed but incredibly compassionate woman who would do anything for her man, a highly volatile rock star with a substance abuse problem...

Weird to say it but I know people like that. It’s a relatable story, but also imaginary and creative. If we look deeply enough into any work we can find something problematic by whatever the popular standard for art is at that time and place. In a way, ASIB is wholesome and enjoyable for unapologetically depicting two extremely flawed individuals experiencing a momentous tragedy, with enough glamour shots and pop music to compensate for the devestation. 

PS Everytime something good happens to Ally, something bad happens to Jack. Their lives are going in completely separate directions from the moment they meet. That **** is dark. 

[chromadica 636]

7 hours ago, smitherz said:

I am so over these stupid ASIB think pieces 🙄🙄🙄🙄

It is a well-made film that deals with very serious topics. I'd be surprised if people weren't writing think pieces.

[Ziggy 11,849]

I agree to a certain extent with what the author is pointing out, but that's only because the movie made it so. As @RabbitHeart pointed out, the movie is about codependence. We aren't supposed to root for their relationship, we root for them to get and be better. Ally's passivity towards much of Jack's behavior is a very very real experience for a lot of spouses of alcoholics, I know it was with my mother, not because she loved my dad but because 3 kids and divorcing is hard when you travel for work. So I think what the article points out is correct, but not the conclusions made from it. The movie isn't glorifying their relationship, I thought that part was crystal clear. It is, however, showing the deep love these two have for one another and how it creates a co-dependence that is not good for either of them. I will say, however, that

 

*SPOILER*

 

Her signing with the label and making it big away from Jack and his shadow is a step in a healthy direction. That's really when she starts to stand up for herself more even if she doesn't all the time.

 

*SPOILER OVER*

 

If anything, this article seems to be shaming timid, shy women whilst shallowly praising strong women as if they're some sort of paradigm. The point of movies and roles like ASIB and Ally are to show that women are nuanced. They are strong, they are independent, they are self-assured, but not all the time. Sometimes the break, sometimes they give up on themselves, and sometimes they work themselves into unhealthy situations because being a woman, being a person, is not easy. Ally cares for her dad then is suddenly very understanding and caring of Jack and his addiction?? That's a very real depiction of that life cycle with abuse and it's something women experience often. The fact that this article seems to indicate some sort of binary in female experiences is problematic in and of itself. Women are not some nebulous abstract, they are living, breathing, complex humans JUST. LIKE. MEN. Jackson is messed up and so is Ally. They each have their own vices, but where Jackson's consumes him, Ally's does not. This article reads like a feminist 101 class syllabus rather than a legitimately nuanced understanding of the cycles of abuse. They aren't pretty. Sorry life ain't a fairytale.

 

Sidenote: It's worth mentioning that the film never once glorifies Jack or his decision-making. If it did then I think there'd be more merit to this article, but as is the film HIGHLY condemns, if is able to empathize with his behavior.

[ode 1,530]

The bar that editors set for these type of hit pieces keeps being lowered, so that we get pieces of crap like this that are almost entirely based upon conjecture and distorted, critically negligent perspectives.

[Emvee 8,405]

Ally is definitely a character written by a man. There’s no doubt about that. 

But to tie it to ****ing rape culture? Come on...

[ARTPOPSYCHOLOGY 6,270]

9 hours ago, strangerthings said:

why are you threading this article and giving it clicks and attention? 

i swear, monsters are not the sharpest tools in the shed. 

Um, as I stated in an earlier comment, whether we like to admit or not, Vox is well known and I wanted other monster's honest opinions. It's also the FIRST article on Google, or was when I Googled ASIB last night. So it's irrelevant that a 3-page thread on GGD will contribute to this article gaining any other traction. In addition, idk who you think you are talking to me/other monsters like that. I don't need you rudely questioning my cognitive abilities. Don't read the thread next time. Thanks. 

[giskardsb 12,565]

reviewer never once mentions that Ally and Jack actually love each other.    Thats how you can tell they had an agenda.   The reviewer is treating Ally as a useless object way more than Jack is, as the reviewer isn't even acknowledging any depth in her at all.  They went in pre-disposed by previous versions and didn't really actually experience this movie.

[lairofhk 931]

I saw his  motives as less wanting total control over her, with him being a man, her being a woman, but more about truly believing in her, wanting her to believe in her, loving her, and wanting the world to witness her amazing talent. It never once rubbed me the wrong way or came off as offensive to me. 

[Rino 5,120]

I think they got it right in some places and wrong in the others. 

Ally has given up on herself, that's why she keeps saying no in the beginning, she's tried it but failed and thus lost her confidence. Vox makes it seem like Ally never even tried and is just a very passive female character from the get-go.