Ally, Gaga, and selling out.... SPOILERS (mild)

[giskardsb 12,565]

this is actually a well written article discussing the meta issues of ASIB in terms of Gaga's own career path, and the messages in the film. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/10/does-lady-gaga-sell-out-star-born/572074/

 

he brings out something in the dialog of "Shallow"...

Tell me something, girl
Are you happy in this modern world?
Or do you need more?
Is there something else you're searching for?

Tell me something, boy
Aren't you tired tryin' to fill that void?
Or do you need more?
Ain't it hard keeping it so hardcore?

which seems to be Jackson asking Ally "arn't you looking for something deep and meaningful" while Ally is basically answering "Isn't it hard trying to be so deep all the time?"

I think the movie is pretty clear in that Ally, while prodded by her managers, is also moving in her own direction and defends her music as not having to always be "serious" as Jackson would accept, although in ASIB even the pop song lyrics have some meaning in the context of the movie.

This part of Ally's journey is maybe a bit close to real life for Gaga.   I've often said though, that I don't really think Gaga "sold out", it's more like she "bought in."  And Gaga in her own music has always subverted the pop machine to some extent.   Like she's said in many interviews during the ASIB era, she had a way of twisting the industries requests and pushing for certain actions and making them her own.

Whats always entertaining around GGD of course is that different fans will consider different era's of Gaga "selling out."  As a mostly non-pop fan, I could easily look at Gaga's pre-Gaga work and then what she became in The Fame and basically say she "sold out" then.   Some pop fans continuously claim Gaga sold out with C2C or "Joanne" which in their mind was simply a calculated move to change her image and demographics. 

My actual belief is that Gaga embraces all these things, and is such a well trained musician and so well versed on all styles of music, that she can't help exploring these different sides of herself.   And as a performance artist and method actor, she changes herself to some extent also.  Gaga literally embeds and wears her moods, in her choices of style, clothing, even speech and attitude.  In this sense, there is definitely a bit of real Gaga in Ally's attitude about pop music.

 

 

[Mirages 20,259]

9 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

My actual belief is that Gaga embraces all these things, and is such a well trained musician and so well versed on all styles of music, that she can't help exploring these different sides of herself.   And as a performance artist and method actor, she changes herself to some extent also.  Gaga literally embeds and wears her moods, in her choices of style, clothing, even speech and attitude.  In this sense, there is definitely a bit of real Gaga in Ally's attitude about pop music.

 Yes! Preach! Gaga always molds her persona around the idea of her current record, because shes a chameleon. She evolves, she tries new things and thats what I find so captivating about her.

[androiduser 7,438]

the one thing I find slightly ironic is that Ally's "selling out" sees her create music similar to Gaga and follow the Gaga dance routines etc.

[elijahfan 26,312]

5 minutes ago, androiduser said:

the one thing I find slightly ironic is that Ally's "selling out" sees her create music similar to Gaga and follow the Gaga dance routines etc.

The only thing similar is the genre - Gaga's pop songs are infinitely more twisted and edgy than Ally's.

Also, I don't really think Ally is selling out: she is indeed following her manager's advice, but not blindly. She still wants to do certain things on her own terms, like having dancers or not, or changing her hair a certain color. She does believe in the pop music she makes, as demonstrated in the bathroom scene.

[androiduser 7,438]

1 minute ago, elijahfan said:

The only thing similar is the genre - Gaga's pop songs are infinitely more twisted and edgy than Ally's.

well, I see some weaker Gaga songs on the same lever as Ally's weak pop songs, but it's just an opinion

[huttont 5,341]

54 minutes ago, Mirages said:

 Yes! Preach! Gaga always molds her persona around the idea of her current record, because shes a chameleon. She evolves, she tries new things and thats what I find so captivating about her.

[Didymus 34,380]

"while Ally is basically answering "Isn't it hard trying to be so deep all the time?"

No, she's referring to his fast lane life (and, unknowingly, his drug addiction).

It's true that the movie doesn't present Ally's music as inferior to Bradley's, and it's also true that Ally's self-written pop songs have lyrical value. If Gaga pushed the movie in that direction, I applaud it, because it was very refreshing.

[JazzGa 14,621]

1 hour ago, giskardsb said:

this is actually a well written article discussing the meta issues of ASIB in terms of Gaga's own career path, and the messages in the film. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/10/does-lady-gaga-sell-out-star-born/572074/

 

he brings out something in the dialog of "Shallow"...

Tell me something, girl
Are you happy in this modern world?
Or do you need more?
Is there something else you're searching for?

Tell me something, boy
Aren't you tired tryin' to fill that void?
Or do you need more?
Ain't it hard keeping it so hardcore?

which seems to be Jackson asking Ally "arn't you looking for something deep and meaningful" while Ally is basically answering "Isn't it hard trying to be so deep all the time?"

I think the movie is pretty clear in that Ally, while prodded by her managers, is also moving in her own direction and defends her music as not having to always be "serious" as Jackson would accept, although in ASIB even the pop song lyrics have some meaning in the context of the movie.

This part of Ally's journey is maybe a bit close to real life for Gaga.   I've often said though, that I don't really think Gaga "sold out", it's more like she "bought in."  And Gaga in her own music has always subverted the pop machine to some extent.   Like she's said in many interviews during the ASIB era, she had a way of twisting the industries requests and pushing for certain actions and making them her own.

Whats always entertaining around GGD of course is that different fans will consider different era's of Gaga "selling out."  As a mostly non-pop fan, I could easily look at Gaga's pre-Gaga work and then what she became in The Fame and basically say she "sold out" then.   Some pop fans continuously claim Gaga sold out with C2C or "Joanne" which in their mind was simply a calculated move to change her image and demographics. 

My actual belief is that Gaga embraces all these things, and is such a well trained musician and so well versed on all styles of music, that she can't help exploring these different sides of herself.   And as a performance artist and method actor, she changes herself to some extent also.  Gaga literally embeds and wears her moods, in her choices of style, clothing, even speech and attitude.  In this sense, there is definitely a bit of real Gaga in Ally's attitude about pop music.

 

 

Great article and thread response! I always value your contributions to this forum, members like you keep me coming back!  I might come back and add my own thoughts later 

[Molly Aphrodite 241]

2 hours ago, giskardsb said:

 My actual belief is that Gaga embraces all these things, and is such a well trained musician and so well versed on all styles of music, that she can't help exploring these different sides of herself.   And as a performance artist and method actor, she changes herself to some extent also.  Gaga literally embeds and wears her moods, in her choices of style, clothing, even speech and attitude.  In this sense, there is definitely a bit of real Gaga in Ally's attitude about pop music.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself! I think it's also open to interpret that Ally's experience with the beginning of her career up until "a star was born" in the last scene is parallel to Gaga's experience with the "end of the beginning" of her career. Selling out, gaining fame, finding your voice, management using you, shallow pop music paving the way for a gifted/talented legend to be born. I think there's definitely a reason Ally name drops Interscope Records in the film, & I even think Rezz represents some characteristics of Gaga's former manager Troy.