Beyonce Cultural Appropriation

[LocosTacos 19]

I’m pretty sure Katy Perry got heat for it because she had her backup dancers dressed as mummies with huge, ridiculous boobs and butts and had them twerk.

edit: oh wow. I’m surprised at a lot of the responses here. Y’all sound like white people that get mad that they can’t use the n word. Actually, I’m not as surprised. Just little monsters living up to their reputation of being racist. Peace out y’all. 

[Bam 1,695]

OMG. I didn't know that this would blow up like this. And i'm neither white nor black--I'm asian. I love Beyonce... But I just don't like the hypocrisy. I love her Coachella very very much. It's just that I have confusion with all this appropriation. I also want to be educated since I'm not from america.

 

I have this confusion when my fellow Filipino, Bruno Mars, was said to have culturally appropriated black culture. When in fact, he grew up with black culture, loving hip hop, doo wop, rnb. So what do you expect from him, sing country? Also, music is popularity-centric. So what may have been popular right now and you liked it may influence you.

 

Next, Katy Perry. Her Unconditionally performance. I thought it was beautiful (coming from an Asian) and there's a video where japanese were interviewed about her performance and they liked it. The problem is not with the people they appropriate, it's only in america that they find it freaky or problematic. I would be touched if they did the performance as an asian because they appreciated culture.

 

When Gaga wore dreadlocks during the ARTPOP era, do you think she was problematic? Did you ever think she tried to 'WHITEWASH' her hair? N-O . She did it because she LIKED IT AND WAS INFLUENCED BY IT.

Cardi B. She grew up in the projects. She's latina, however, she grew up with black culture. Imagine she would sing country. I couldn't imagine (I do have a problem with her saying the N word).

 

So now, Beyonce. I respect her and love her. But where is her backlash? I don't wish ill on her but I also exprcted, oh, here we go, people are gonna say ish about her. But no. I was just curious why? Why is it that whenever one 'appropriates', no one touches her? I don't believe she appropriates but artistically woven egyptian themes perfectly.

 

So no, I don't believe in this cultural appropriation. If no one is shitting on the imagery, it's okay.

[Bam 1,695]

35 minutes ago, Fable said:

African Americans who are descendants of slaves had their specific cultures erased. They were forced to assimilate and they lost their religions and cultures. Many African Americans find that embracing their "Africaness" and "blackness" in opposition to the standard of "whiteness" that has been forced upon them is a way to reclaim some power and live authentically. 

Let's not get it twisted and act like people are going to call appropriation if Katy dressed up like she was in Ancient Greece - that's a European country full of white people. People aren't pissed at Beyonce dressing up like she is in Ancient Egypt because it's an African country and she is paying homage to a powerful black civilisation and using historically black references, rather than usual 'white' references to power (such as European royalty), to communicate strength and power. Some people didn't like Katy dressing up as an Ancient Egyptian because Ancient Egyptians have consistently been portrayed by white europeans, white washing the achievements and influence of civilisations and societies that were led by people of colour.

My question to you is, if Beyonce did an ancient Greece-themed peformance, is it appropriation? 

[Bam 1,695]

Just now, RAMROD said:

Are you serious or are you just out of touch?

You don’t realize why she was dressing herself as Nubian Queen? Have you watch the show at all  and all the black culture stuffs she sprinkled on that almost 2 hours show and busy pointing out things like this to diss her throught the evening?

 

Hi. I love Beyonce. I'm only confused why the SJWs didn't attack her.

[Infinity Wave 7,635]

2 hours ago, Fable said:

Literally that entire paragraph was just a bizarre rant and was in no way related to anything I've said  

I don't think you understood what I wrote so I don't see the point in replying properly tbh.


 

I'm gonna show you were you said those things I referred to and then I'll try to explain me better - please read this because I'm interested in this discussion (and note that in no way I wanna offend or insult you, if it seems like that is because Eng is not my 1st language so I'm sorry)

3 hours ago, Fable said:

1) African Americans who are descendants of slaves had their specific cultures erased. They were forced to assimilate and they lost their religions and cultures.

2) Many African Americans find that embracing their "Africaness" and "blackness" in opposition to the standard of "whiteness" that has been forced upon them is a way to reclaim some power and live authentically. 

3) she is paying homage to a powerful black civilisation and using historically black references, rather than usual 'white' references to power (such as European royalty), to communicate strength and power.

4) white washing the achievements and influence of civilisations and societies that were led by people of colour.

1) That is true but that has nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptian culture. That culture really was a one of a kind in the whole Africa (and also in Europe, along with the Ancient Romans and Greeks), and the African people of today really have nothing to do with that - that's history. So, being African American actually is like being white if you're talking about a connection of the race with the ancient Egyptian culture. 

2) As I already said, in no way "whitness" was forced upon the ancient Egyptians. You see, we're not talking about colonialism or exploitation or slavery here - we're talking about a more than 2 thousand years old culture, that has nothing to do with what has happened just a couple of centuries ago.

"Africaness" and "blackness" have no connection with those old culture and civilization. And, before you say that, it's different from the ancient Romans because the conquered the whole Europe and forced their culture upon those coutries, so in that case we can talk about a connection between us Europeans and the Ancient Romans. 

But ancient Egyptians didn't conquer the whole Africa or even more countries than the only Egypt. They were a relatively small civilization. Africa is a BIG country, like, really big, with billions of people. You cannot talk about a connection between african people of today and the ancient Egyptian simply because ancient Egyptian culture was only shared by some thousand of people.

3) Again, you do not communicate strenght and power for the black community through ancient Egyptian culture, because, again, they cannot be considered a "black" civilization as we intend it today.

4) The same goes here: nobody white washed what the ancient Egyptians did and conquered, simply because they are a 3 thousand years old civilization and they weren't even black.

So, you do not communicate a message of freedom and power thruogh that imagery, that's history.

Edit: read this en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_race_theory

It explains what I'm saying: there are only theories which say that the ancient Egyptians were Africans and not caucasian - or European. So, no, for the commonly accepted historical view African people of today do not descend from the ancient Egyptians.

[RAMROD 109,709]

12 minutes ago, Bam said:

Hi. I love Beyonce. I'm only confused why the SJWs didn't attack her.

Well, Beyonce is POC. And Egyptians are too. It is scientifically proven that Nubia Egyptian are Sub Saharan.  Although she is not Egyptian, she is still a part of the race and allowed to borrow their culture. She didn’t claim it at hers, in this case she is representing it for the world to see. It is the whole different meaning altogether when white people wearing it like done by katy Perry, or as potrayed in some movies like Cleopatra and Gods of Egypt for examples. 

[JupiterDrive 2,788]

Cultural appropriation does not exist people need to chill 

[Andreu 37,216]

2 hours ago, RAMROD said:

Are you serious or are you just out of touch?

You don’t realize why she was dressing herself as Nubian Queen? Have you watch the show at all  and all the black culture stuffs she sprinkled on that almost 2 hours show and busy pointing out things like this to diss her throught the evening?

 

I admit I haven’t im here bc of egyptian topic is interesting to me, i couldn’t care less bout bey 

edit: and I don’t think bey did anything wrong

[Bam 1,695]

Just now, RAMROD said:

Well, Beyonce is POC. And Egyptians are too. It is scientifically proven that Nubia Egyptian are Sub Saharan.  Although she is not Egyptian, she is still a part of the race and allowed to borrow their culture. She didn’t claim it at hers, in this case she is representing it for the world to see. It is the whole different meaning altogether when white people wearing it like done by katy Perry, or as potrayed in some movies like Cleopatra and Gods of Egypt for examples. 

So for instance, here in the Philippines, we conduct a stage show about Cleopatra, we don't have any black people here nor in China nor in Indonesia (except for tourists and student tourist) is it cultural appropriation? Also, we have this thing here called United Nations pageant and we dress up to different cultures of different countries and perform their traditiomal dances, is that cultural appropriation? TBH, I really think it's only in America that this 'appropriation' thing exist since America is still finding its identity whick coincides whyAmerica is looking for the Great American Novel.

 

My question same as one of the commentors here, if Beyonce performed an ancient Greece performance, is it cultural appropriation? That's white European culture.

[RAMROD 109,709]

5 minutes ago, Bam said:

So for instance, here in the Philippines, we conduct a stage show about Cleopatra, we don't have any black people here nor in China nor in Indonesia (except for tourists and student tourist) is it cultural appropriation? Also, we have this thing here called United Nations pageant and we dress up to different cultures of different countries and perform their traditiomal dances, is that cultural appropriation? TBH, I really think it's only in America that this 'appropriation' thing exist since America is still finding its identity whick coincides whyAmerica is looking for the Great American Novel.

 

My question same as one of the commentors here, if Beyonce performed an ancient Greece performance, is it cultural appropriation? That's white European culture.

Well, it is exist in Europe too but not as vocal.

Back in the 1990s. Spice Girl was protesting when they performed on TV Show in Holland, and there were these white dutch people dressing up in Black Face, commonly called as Zwarte Piet. They told the presenter to update their culture for it

[Bebe 17,094]

1 hour ago, Infinity Wave said:

I'm gonna show you were you said those things I referred to and then I'll try to explain me better - please read this because I'm interested in this discussion (and note that in no way I wanna offend or insult you, if it seems like that is because Eng is not my 1st language so I'm sorry)

1) That is true but that has nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptian culture. That culture really was a one of a kind in the whole Africa (and also in Europe, along with the Ancient Romans and Greeks), and the African people of today really have nothing to do with that - that's history. So, being African American actually is like being white if you're talking about a connection of the race with the ancient Egyptian culture. 

2) As I already said, in no way "whitness" was forced upon the ancient Egyptians. You see, we're not talking about colonialism or exploitation or slavery here - we're talking about a more than 2 thousand years old culture, that has nothing to do with what has happened just a couple of centuries ago.

"Africaness" and "blackness" have no connection with those old culture and civilization. And, before you say that, it's different from the ancient Romans because the conquered the whole Europe and forced their culture upon those coutries, so in that case we can talk about a connection between us Europeans and the Ancient Romans. 

But ancient Egyptians didn't conquer the whole Africa or even more countries than the only Egypt. They were a relatively small civilization. Africa is a BIG country, like, really big, with billions of people. You cannot talk about a connection between african people of today and the ancient Egyptian simply because ancient Egyptian culture was only shared by some thousand of people.

3) Again, you do not communicate strenght and power for the black community through ancient Egyptian culture, because, again, they cannot be considered a "black" civilization as we intend it today.

4) The same goes here: nobody white washed what the ancient Egyptians did and conquered, simply because they are a 3 thousand years old civilization and they weren't even black.

So, you do not communicate a message of freedom and power thruogh that imagery, that's history.

Edit: read this en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_race_theory

It explains what I'm saying: there are only theories which say that the ancient Egyptians were Africans and not caucasian - or European. So, no, for the commonly accepted historical view African people of today do not descend from the ancient Egyptians.

1) No, the fact that African American culture was erased doesn't have anything to do with Ancient Egypt - but that wasn't the point I am trying to make. The point is really that African Americans have had their culture and history erased, their 'Africaness' is looked down upon and they have been forced to assimilate into a European culture with European norms (including standards of beauty, behaviour, culture).  African Americans looking outside of Europe to African countries for representations of African/black beauty, African/black power and African/black culture is understandable, it's got nothing to do with "African people are like the Ancient Egyptians!"

The problem people have with white people dressing up as Pharaohs or movies made about Ancient Egypt using an entire white cast is that it white washes and erases the history and people of Ancient Egypt and erases the history of people of colour because the most common representation of Ancient Egypt is that it was run by and populated by white people.

The reason that doesn't apply to Beyonce is because she isn't white and because she is of African decent (where in Africa who knows? Even if she had a DNA test they would likely be unable to specify where her ancestors came from). While Beyonce has dressed as a European Queen before, it's also understandable why she would want to draw from more African references, since her ancestry (as well as the ancestry of vast majority of African Americans) is unclear she doesn't have a specific African culture to draw from - HOWEVER what African American artists, and African American people in general, can do in order to create a kind of identity and culture that is there own is to connect to the history and culture of a wide range of African cultures in order to find and create an identity and culture that is uniquely African and not influenced by imposed European standards. 


2) I didn't claim Whiteness was forced upon the ancient Egyptians, of course it wasn't, but I would say that their history and culture have been widely whitewashed through modern depictions of Ancient Egypt. Africa isn't a big country, it's a big continent, but regardless - I'm not claiming Ancient Egypt is anything like modern Africa nor am I claiming that the cultures of many different African countries (and regions within those countries) are homogeneous. What I am claiming is that Ancient Egypt was once a significant empire and it is significant to African and "black" history. To a group of people whose history and culture has been erased, the only references they can use that relate to their African and/or Black heritage is of Ancient and current African societies and cultures. When Beyonce's music and performances have a theme of black pride, black power and black love she probably doesn't want to depict herself as a powerful European Queen, neither her nor her (black) audience have any specific reference to draw upon because their history and culture has been erased, but she can reference current and ancient African and/or black cultures (in a respectful way) in order to communicate those themes and seperate her worth from European standards. Dressing up as a medieval European Queen while trying to promote and celebrate Africaness and blackness makes little sense, references to ancient African queens does.


3) Ancient Egyptians were African... Whether they relate to modern Africa, or whether they where even totally dark skinned black is irrelevant as I've already tried to explain  Queen Nefertiti, who Beyonce referenced tonight, was an African Queen and is an icon of beauty and femininity. When Beyonce references her - what she is communicating through her fashion and performance is an African standard of beauty and femininity (an alternative to the European standard of beauty and femininity that is usually promoted) and invoking ideas of power and respect for African women. It's deeper than skin colour, whether Africa today looks like ancient Egypt is irrelevant, what Beyonce did was portray and show standards of beauty and an African power that is removed from the European expectations or representations imposed on African American women.

4) Obviously ancient Egyptian culture has been whitewashed... Watch any Hollywood movie that is about, or includes, ancient Egypt and no doubt the entire cast is as pale as a ghost. 

[Bebe 17,094]

1 hour ago, Bam said:

My question to you is, if Beyonce did an ancient Greece-themed peformance, is it appropriation? 

There isn't a history of 'blackwashing' ancient Greece so I wouldn't say so. I mean whiteness is also considered the standard in a lot of ways and assimilation is real.

There are just total differences in power dynamics between these groups. 

[Bam 1,695]

Just now, Fable said:

There isn't a history of 'blackwashing' ancient Greece so I wouldn't say so. I mean whiteness is also considered the standard in a lot of ways and assimilation is real.

There are just total differences in power dynamics between these groups. 

I think that's very unfair to say as white people have been enslaved too by black people before, infact longer than vice versa. Search Barbary slave trade.

It's not a matter of power dynamics, it's simply rooted on people demonizing the wjite which is a trend lately.

[Bebe 17,094]

2 minutes ago, Bam said:

I think that's very unfair to say as white people have been enslaved too by black people before, infact longer than vice versa. Search Barbary slave trade.

It's not a matter of power dynamics, it's simply rooted on people demonizing the wjite which is a trend lately.

It completely does have to do with power dynamics  if your understanding of power dynamics is limited to "____ people were once slaves" then you have a very basic understanding of racism and power dynamics - especially in the U.S

Some popular depictions of Ancient Greece (Europe) in the media:

 

Now some depictions of the Ancient Egypt (African):

Does that help?

In isolation, if there was scarce representation of 'white' ancient Egyptians, it probably wouldn't really be such a big deal if a white performer went on stage dressed like an ancient Egyptian- like I don't think it would be a big deal if Beyonce dressed like she was from Ancient Greece. The problem is that Ancient Egypt is consistently white washed black/brown people are not represented within tellings of their own history.

Ancient Greeks are always depicted as European, a person of colour dressing as someone from ancient Greece isn't going to erase that, but Ancient Egyptians are also always depicted as European which is problematic - media representations of an ancient African country/empire are consistently white washed  

It has nothing to do with hating white people.

[Infinity Wave 7,635]

50 minutes ago, Fable said:

 

. Africa isn't a big country, it's a big continent, but regardless - I

Yeah sorry I used the wrong word anyway, my point was that Egyptians were not Africans, they were just living in the modern Egypt. But, anyway, if you don't wanna accept that there is no point in going on discussing