Austria to ban hijab in primary schools and kindergarten

[GypsyBabe 22,836]

This passing would really be a shame. This is a direct attack on Muslim girls and their age is truly irrelevant. To me, there is no difference in a head scarf or wearing religiously significant jewelry as a Catholic. If an elementary school child is allowed to wear a crucifix to school, then their peer should be allowed to wear a hijab. 

[GypsyBabe 22,836]

6 hours ago, geopang said:

I support this. No Should be forced to wear any garment due to indoctrination. No place for oppression in schools.

Then all religion items should be banned. 

[geopang 4,831]

6 minutes ago, GypsyBabe said:

Then all religion items should be banned. 

I agree. No place for religious indoctrination in schools

[Bebe 17,289]

Ridiculous. It's plainly discrimination and an attempt to erase the 'other' out group. It's a ****ing headscarf, what's the fuss?

Let's not be blind to the fact that we have all been 'indoctrinated' into wearing certain kinds of clothes or presenting in particular ways. I was dressed in shorts and shirts and my hair was cut short for cultural reasons - in my culture, and in the cultures of most here, that's what's expected of boys. The girls in my class wore skirts or little dresses and their hair was kept long. Are we rallying against this form of indoctrination? Is there an outcry that children like me probably didn't choose to wear the clothes they wore? Is there an outcry that I was 'forced' to cut my hair short for cultural reasons? Is there an outcry that some little girls in my class had to endure the pain of a needle poked through their earlobes so they could wear culturally appropriate jewelry through their ear?

Children are not capable of informed consent, parents inevitably have to make these sorts of choices for them - while you may disagree with some of those choices we have to accept it within reason... I don't think such a harmless fashion choice should become an area that causes such unnecessary outrage.

In some cultures little girls are expected to have long hair and braids, in some cultures little girls are expected to have head scarfs. I don't see much of a difference to be completely honest. We all grow up under certain cultural expectations that, as children, we have little room to challenge.

Banning one kind of cultural expression in favour of forcing families to conform to a more dominant and powerful kind of cultural expression seems like more of a major infringement of rights and freedoms than anything else in this story.

Forcing children to forgo their own cultural garments is just another way to force children to conform with our own cultural expectations and indoctrinate them into accepting how we present ourselves to be 'correct'. You're not saving or protecting these children by erasing their own cultural expression, you are just forcing them to assimilate and conform to an alternate 'correct' cultural expression that you and I happened to have been indoctrinated into. 

I'm not a fan of religion in general, but i'm also not really into policing people's thoughts and expressions. 

[GaGaAst 13,124]

I have always wondered how difficult it would be for all those girls who can't express their face and should  live behind burqa..especially in hot climates like arab dubai it would be dreadful to wear black in souring sun..

Everyone should have freedom..if they want let them wear but outright religious or societal rule to  compulsory wear or prohibition to wear is INSANE. 

[Bebe 17,289]

9 hours ago, geopang said:

I support this. No Should be forced to wear any garment due to indoctrination. No place for oppression in schools.

How do you avoid that though? It seems to me that you're just replacing one cultural norm with different, more 'correct', cultural norms more in line with western thinking.

I'm sure the majority of children in Austrian primary schools are indoctrinated into some cultural practices regarding their garments and physical appearance. I'm sure the boys generally get their hair cut short and wear shorts and shirts - consistent with the cultural gender norms imposed upon them by their parents and society at large. I'm sure the girls generally wear their hair long, get their ears pierced and wear dresses and skirts in accordance with cultural gender norms also imposed upon them by their parents and society at large.

Banning the hijab isn't freeing these young girls from imposed cultural norms, it's just forcing them to assimilate and ascribe to different and more dominant cultural norms that most of western society has been 'indoctrinated' into. All this does is ban one kind of cultural expression in favour of forcing families to conform to more dominant cultural expressions.

These little muslim girls 'forced' into wearing hijabs are no different from the little girls 'forced' into growing their hair long and showing it off. We all grow up under certain cultural expectations that, as children, we have little room to challenge. It's unavoidable. Children can't have informed consent, parents have to make decisions like these all the time. You don't have to agree with them, but if it's not harming the child why does it matter? Wearing a headscarf doesn't harm a child, it's just a cultural norm that's different to the ones you and I were raised into. 

[Yanko 9,860]

Good. 

[RAMROD 116,998]

The reasoning for this is not right nor can be justified.

”sees as a threat to Austrian mainstream culture.”

Are they serious? One would think a country which is part of EU would embrace diversities.

 

One step forward two steps back 

 

 

[BABYL0N 3,192]

17 hours ago, A Hybrid said:

Well, parallel societies? Bit of a stretch, huh?

But I don't think kindergarten or primary school kids are mature enough to make the decision to wear a hijab and I feel sad that they are being forced by their parents.

as a muslim I totally agree

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

17 hours ago, Florian said:

You're extrapoling what I'm saying. As far as I know burqa is a "religious sign"

No they should not. A 15 yo teen isn't mature enough.

Not since 2004 (I hope I'm correct) when they made a law to protect minors both from being forced to wear religious signs and being bullied because of them (because you know, teen are kinda dumb at this age ).

Religious signs (like Hijab and Kippah) are allowed in universities tho because it has always be seen as the sanctuary of freedom of expression and also because issues are very rare there.

Every now and then there are debates to know if it should or shouldn't be allowed tho.

That's an issue with your highschool in particular. Here the girls were coming to school in hijab, took it off in the hall and put it on again when they left the school. I've never seen any issues.

Not really, my schools were like that too, they tried to made us unwear any religious signs but they tried for like 1 year. You cant control people when they have 15 or 16 years old, + the school directors were totally lost cause they restricted so much things like shorts or skirt it was stupid at the end, everything was "not decent" so the students didn't care and now they Wear what they want

So today if we return in my old schools you will see everybody wearing what they want

But for the hijab I think it's more about a common sense that you don't put in a primary school or force someone at any age, everybody know that until you are mature enough for understand the meaning and that you agree personally for wearing it and only cause you really want it, you don't have to choose for a child or for anyone (adult, wife, teen..)

[JustinTrudeau 2,419]

Ban all religious wear, not just hijabs in kindergarten/primary schools. That include cross necklaces, Jewish caps, and Sik rumals. Those parents are influencing their kids as well. 

It is wrong to target one religion if each religion has a certain way of wearing clothes and accessories for both boys and girls. Ban all or allow all.

Also, get the **** out of here if you think kids in the Western world had a choice in wearing what they want. When I was younger, my mom bought clothes for myself, she chose hairstyles and outfits for myself, and I had little wiggle room. I went to high school wearing uniforms cause my parents wanted me to go to a Catholic school. Many of my classmates went to a private primary school with uniforms as well.

The people who support this think it's going to benefit everyone if it's targeting Muslim hijabs only. But who are you to say that? Protecting the girls? More like alienating them and making them feel like they're the Other. 

[xoxojohnwayne 574]

7 hours ago, GaGaAst said:

 live behind burqa

BEHIND THE BURQAAAAAAAA

[Florian 20,017]

3 hours ago, RAMROD said:

The reasoning for this is not right nor can be justified.

”sees as a threat to Austrian mainstream culture.”

Are they serious? One would think a country which is part of EU would embrace diversities.

 

One step forward two steps back 

 

 

"In varietate concordia" is shook

[RAMROD 116,998]

 

Just now, Florian said:

"In varietate concordia" is shook

Honestly truly

 

[lairofhk 936]

Fascism is on the rise all across Europe. Austria happens to be particularly racist/xenophobic, as does Poland. There are some scary ultra-right wing movements going on right now. Of course in the US, we're dealing with our own related problems here.