CoS keeps slamming Taylor, SNL performance now

[Whispering 18,865]

@StrawberryBlond

I know dozens of parents who are involved in their children's lives and are supportive of their hobbies and talents. Some are wealthy, some are middle class and some are single moms who work around the clock to do it all. 

You are wrong. If happened in real life to Garth Brooks, Kathy Mattea, Faith Hill, Dierks Bentley, Trisha Yearwood and way too many song writers to list. 

I wasn't brought up as a wealthy kid. My Dad was a public servant. My family came from the farm fields of Arkansas and Kentucky and the other side from coal country West Virginia. We all started working by the time we were 13 and went to college on scholarships and loans. None of us sit back and rely on our parents or our government to take care of us. 

They got to where they are at because parents spent time, effort, money and attention on them...and they worked hard and dedicated their life to a certain talent or career path. I know one talented guy who just starred in his first movie. He is a product of a single mom and they lived in their car for a while in high school. He kept going, she kept going...now he has a future. 

[Hausofalexandru 325]

She can’t sing live like that. That’s for sure. She’s ok not hating on her but I’ve seen here sing live and she can’t keep up like that 

[StrawberryBlond 13,396]

4 minutes ago, Whispering said:

@StrawberryBlond

I know dozens of parents who are involved in their children's lives and are supportive of their hobbies and talents. Some are wealthy, some are middle class and some are single moms who work around the clock to do it all. 

You are wrong. If happened in real life to Garth Brooks, Kathy Mattea, Faith Hill, Dierks Bentley, Trisha Yearwood and way too many song writers to list. 

I wasn't brought up as a wealthy kid. My Dad was a public servant. My family came from the farm fields of Arkansas and Kentucky and the other side from coal country West Virginia. We all started working by the time we were 13 and went to college on scholarships and loans. None of us sit back and rely on our parents or our government to take care of us. 

They got to where they are at because parents spent time, effort, money and attention on them...and they worked hard and dedicated their life to a certain talent or career path. I know one talented guy who just starred in his first movie. He is a product of a single mom and they lived in their car for a while in high school. He kept going, she kept going...now he has a future. 

Again, some families want to make it work regardless of their income. But some just won't go to that extreme, believing that if their child wants something, they need to pursue it themselves, when they're older, using their own money, time and resources. What do you not understand about "some parents don't have this support for their children's dreams"?

Well, this is some miracle cafe, then. No wonder they wanted to move her to Nashville.

Well, if you were raised in such humble surroundings, I thought you'd have a more realistic view of how life is like for most people, but instead, you seem to believe everyone can come from nothing. Fame is rare enough as it is. A lot of people do it through connections these days. You seem to spend your time bigging up these supportive parents like they're better than every other kind of parent and like they're the only kind there are. Even Gaga wanted to earn fame on her own despite having rich parents, moving out of their middle class abode into a crappy apartment on the Lower East Side, working her ass off to pay the rent when she wasn't writing songs and doing gigs for barely any money before making it big. That's an artist that I can respect, not one who deliberately kept herself sheltered and needed fame before graduating high school.

[Whispering 18,865]

@StrawberryBlond

Again, some do use their money, time and energy to support their children. What do you not understand about "some parents have this support for their kids"?

It's a place where labels send people to scout for undiscovered talent and where undiscovered talent goes to get a break. I told you this two comments ago.

I have a realistic view. I have friends and family members who work in the arts, from teaching to being on Broadway or a professional actor. I grew up around friends that span every income bracket, who now have jobs and are productive citizens. I also know of kids who weren't so fortunate in the parental support department, but they have made something of themselves through hard work and education. I work and live among people from all walks of life. 

Lol, I'm not going to get into a silly comparison discussion between Gaga and Taylor. Gaga is not the topic of this thread. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,396]

1 minute ago, Whispering said:

@StrawberryBlond

Again, some do use their money, time and energy to support their children. What do you not understand about "some parents have this support for their kids"?

It's a place where labels send people to scout for undiscovered talent and where undiscovered talent goes to get a break. I told you this two comments ago.

I have a realistic view. I have friends and family members who work in the arts, from teaching to being on Broadway or a professional actor. I grew up around friends that span every income bracket, who now have jobs and are productive citizens. I also know of kids who weren't so fortunate in the parental support department, but they have made something of themselves through hard work and education. I work and live among people from all walks of life. 

Lol, I'm not going to get into a silly comparison discussion between Gaga and Taylor. Gaga is not the topic of this thread. 

There's no point continuing this discussion. You can't seem to get your head around the point I'm trying to make. I don't know what makes some people support Taylor so much. What's so amazing about her that you feel the need to defend every little valid criticism against her, like she's some kind of saint? I don't even defend Gaga to this extent.

[Whispering 18,865]

14 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

There's no point continuing this discussion. You can't seem to get your head around the point I'm trying to make. I don't know what makes some people support Taylor so much. What's so amazing about her that you feel the need to defend every little valid criticism against her, like she's some kind of saint? I don't even defend Gaga to this extent.

I know the point you are trying to make. I disagree with it. 

I'm not up in every thread defending Taylor or saying she is some saint. In the last two months, I've made 14 comments out of 375 about Taylor Swift. That's less than five per cent of my comments...and that is during an active release and promo for an era. 14 comments over the last two months wouldn't come anywhere close to defending "every little criticism" here. Obviously, I don't do that. 

And your criticisms aren't valid...just because you think they are inside your head. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,396]

Just now, Whispering said:

I know the point you are trying to make. I disagree with it. 

I'm not up in every thread defending Taylor or saying she is some saint. In the last two months, I've made 14 comments out of 375 about Taylor Swift. That's less than five per cent of my comments...and that is during an active release and promo for an era. 14 comments over the last two months wouldn't come anywhere close to defending "every little criticism" here. Obviously, I don't do that. 

And your criticisms aren't valid...just because you think they are inside your head. 

You're allowed to disagree but to act as if it's not an actual thing that some very talented young people can't get the support from their parents is kinda ridiculous.

I wasn't referring to just you when I said that, it was a reference to any one of her fans who feel the need to defend her over every little thing that most artists get criticised over without question. I can't even say something something simple like "how can she do stadiums worldwide when she barely has any demand for arenas in most countries?" without being accused of being stupid. Not since the Beyhive have I encountered fans this petty.

My criticisms are valid. Criticising a singer's ability to sing well and not develop their music is very valid.

[Whispering 18,865]

9 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You're allowed to disagree but to act as if it's not an actual thing that some very talented young people can't get the support from their parents is kinda ridiculous.

I wasn't referring to just you when I said that, it was a reference to any one of her fans who feel the need to defend her over every little thing that most artists get criticised over without question. I can't even say something something simple like "how can she do stadiums worldwide when she barely has any demand for arenas in most countries?" without being accused of being stupid. Not since the Beyhive have I encountered fans this petty.

My criticisms are valid. Criticising a singer's ability to sing well and not develop their music is very valid.

That's why I said some.

"What's so amazing about her that you feel the need to defend every little valid criticism against her, like she's some kind of saint?"

I can't be responsible for a fanbase, no matter who they belong to.

Your criticism in this thread wasn't valid. 

 

[StrawberryBlond 13,396]

4 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Your criticism in this thread wasn't valid.

Go back to the very first post I made, where I questioned if it was actually lipsynching or part live/part live lipsynch and her lack of dancing skills. Seems valid to me. I also brought up how I thought it was refreshing that CoS is giving a more balanced view in amongst all the other non-constructive praise.

[Whispering 18,865]

Just now, StrawberryBlond said:

Go back to the very first post I made, where I questioned if it was actually lipsynching or part live/part live lipsynch and her lack of dancing skills. Seems valid to me. I also brought up how I thought it was refreshing that CoS is giving a more balanced view in amongst all the other non-constructive praise.

That wasn't what I quoted or directed my comment towards and you know it. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,396]

32 minutes ago, Whispering said:

That wasn't what I quoted or directed my comment towards and you know it. 

I know, but someone else quoted me and I responded and you responded from the response I made. That's very different to what I was writing when I entered this thread. I can't help it if someone quotes me and someone picks up on what I say in the response. Basically, I was keeping on topic until others came along and picked up on other stuff.

[scallywally 626]

On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:50 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

What? Am I wrong? She comes from a rich family and from the age of 9, was travelling to NY for vocal and acting lessons and performed at festivals and various events when she got a bit older. She and her mother made frequent trips to Nashville when she was just 11, submitting demo tapes, trying to get her career started, but got rejection after rejection. Her parents moved the family to Nashville even though she was only 14 at that time. Her dad paid for her to get a record deal and purchased a 3% stake ($120k) in the company, which was new at the time. Rumours are that he even bought a load of copies of her debut album so she'd have good sales and they're all in a warehouse somewhere. She got all this because of money and connections.

So did Gaga. Ed Sheeran, Lenny Kravitz, Chris Martin, Whitney, Janet, Miley, Ariana. It doesn't matter if your family has money. Playing music & writing music that touches people is a talent that cant be bought. They would've had great voices and been artistic if they were poor. If they weren't artistically inclined I'm pretty sure their parents wouldve sent them to be doctors. We cant pretend Gaga didn't borrow from her family to live in downtown manhatten and her dad have a huge profit for the return. I'm glad she had the back up. Families work really hard so their kids can have the best opportunities in life. You cant knock that.

[doppelganger 3,754]

No parents want their kids to fail and they have every right to go out of their way to support and ensure their kids' success. Having said that, it is important to acknowledge that privilege and Taylor for me comes off as very entitled. She's a super talented musician, but that entitlement shows in her lyricism. 

[NCgaga 4,179]

She’s talented. Some of you go completely out of your way to hate on her and it’s obvious. Ive only purchased one album by her, so I’m far from a fan, but I don’t understand why she is a constant target. Is it because she is successful? I really don’t get it. She is not a vocalist, but she is a decent singer. Some of you have very pointed criticism of her. Meaning, every time there is a discussion about her, you make an effort to come to a thread and say “I don’t see it’, “She can’t sing live” etc. But you say nothing about the countless other females who can’t sing live (Rihanna, that girl from 5fth harmony, Jennifer Lopez, etc)..Some of you have vendettas against her. It’s weird. SHe writes her own music, plays her own instruments, and yes can actually sing. NOt the best, but she can sing. Let her be.

[StrawberryBlond 13,396]

14 hours ago, scallywally said:

So did Gaga. Ed Sheeran, Lenny Kravitz, Chris Martin, Whitney, Janet, Miley, Ariana. It doesn't matter if your family has money. Playing music & writing music that touches people is a talent that cant be bought. They would've had great voices and been artistic if they were poor. If they weren't artistically inclined I'm pretty sure their parents wouldve sent them to be doctors. We cant pretend Gaga didn't borrow from her family to live in downtown manhatten and her dad have a huge profit for the return. I'm glad she had the back up. Families work really hard so their ids can have the best opportunities in life. You cant knock that.

There's helping your kids and then there's buying opportunities for them. Most of the acts you listed got it on their own apart from child/sibling of situations, of course. Ultimately, I don't mind family pulling a favour if you are honest to God talented but can't catch a break. A lot of people said Lana Del Rey's millionaire dad bought her career for her, even though she claims otherwise. But even if he did do it, I wouldn't mind because it would be a crying shame if someone as talented as her never got her music out there and if it meant that she had to buy her way in, so be it. If your child is, without bias, unquestionably gifted, I'd say, yeah, give them the push if they need it. If that's what it takes to get decent music in the charts, so be it. But if you're just like many parents and think your child is wonderful simply because they're your child and there's a lot of blind praise and bias going on, don't interfere. If they really want it, let them wait until they're an adult and tell them they have to make it on their own when they do. We don't need hundreds of thousands of rich parents buying their untalented kids way into the industry and filling up our charts with sheltered music about their privileged, charmed life. Not that I'm saying that Taylor's untalented, but she's definitely not "needs a debut album at 16" kinda talented. Ironically enough, I think her debut was her best, but even then, it's still nothing outstanding. If I were a record label boss, I wouldn't be thinking that she needs to be signed and it would be a big loss if I didn't.

4 hours ago, NCgaga said:

She’s talented. Some of you go completely out of your way to hate on her and it’s obvious. Ive only purchased one album by her, so I’m far from a fan, but I don’t understand why she is a constant target. Is it because she is successful? I really don’t get it. She is not a vocalist, but she is a decent singer. Some of you have very pointed criticism of her. Meaning, every time there is a discussion about her, you make an effort to come to a thread and say “I don’t see it’, “She can’t sing live” etc. But you say nothing about the countless other females who can’t sing live (Rihanna, that girl from 5fth harmony, Jennifer Lopez, etc)..Some of you have vendettas against her. It’s weird. SHe writes her own music, plays her own instruments, and yes can actually sing. NOt the best, but she can sing. Let her be.

Well, it's partly because she's successful and doesn't have the talent to back it up. For me, the biggest reason other than that is her personality. She totally gives the impression of someone who's all sweetness and light for the camera, but a nightmare behind the scenes. If some reports from those around her are true, it's definitely the case. Her songs show how petty and immature she is, thinking another artist using your backup dancers makes them your enemy and so on. It seems like she deliberately dates men purely so she can dump them and get material for the next album. And the way the critics gush over her bland songs that don't show any development is nothing short of nauseating and some of us think she must be paying them to be positive because critics just don't fawn over such music and artists. And while I know you're speaking generally, I certainly never stop referencing other females who can't sing (Katy Perry especially always gets a very harsh slam from me), Taylor is far from the only artist that I criticise. I think no artist is immune from criticism, especially the biggest names because they're usually the most basically talented, hence why they appeal to the majority. And if they don't get criticism and get nothing but mindless praise from spineless critics, they'll never get better. But yes, I won't deny that she has her talents, but it's the songwriting that really gets to me the most - she just doesn't seem to have developed in all these years, matured or done experimentation. Blank Space seems to be her sole biggest songwriting achievement, everything else is average at best. Writing your own music is great and all, but it needs to be good to have it be truly laudable.

I hope that helps you understand things a bit better. At the end of the day, I just don't like to see people with problematic personalities getting lots of success. I value humbleness and likability in celebrities. Not everyone does, clearly, but isn't it not at least understandable?