Why do people say Madonna is Talentless?

[Xoxo Adriana 15,040]

1 hour ago, heimerdinger said:

 

Ray of light/Like a Prayer basic? 

Ray of Light is far from basic but Like A Prayer needs a prayer  

pray for it nunties  

[Bogdan 164]

3 hours ago, Edge Of Venus said:

I know better than the entire Grammy board.

Yea, I don't think so. Instead of dismissing my argument with the "it's stupid" basis (which is not a counter argument in itself and only points to ignorance), you should come up with your own arguments. After all, Gaga's voice is then times better than Madonna's and it shows in sound of music, new york new york performances as well as countless others. You can't judge an artist solely based on studio performance, but even then Gaga comes out on top easily. Gaga is also the better songwritter hand down. The only thing she's perhaps worse at is dancing, which she would have probably been if it weren't for chronic pain, mind you.

[insight 2,427]

58 minutes ago, Kylie Jenner said:

 but Like A Prayer needs a prayer  

pray for it nunties  

what you hear once you get inside the package is as close to art as pop music gets

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/like-a-prayer-19890406

[Edge Of Venus 731]

2 hours ago, Unwavering said:

Yea, I don't think so. Instead of dismissing my argument with the "it's stupid" basis (which is not a counter argument in itself and only points to ignorance), you should come up with your own arguments. After all, Gaga's voice is then times better than Madonna's and it shows in sound of music, new york new york performances as well as countless others. You can't judge an artist solely based on studio performance, but even then Gaga comes out on top easily. Gaga is also the better songwritter hand down. The only thing she's perhaps worse at is dancing, which she would have probably been if it weren't for chronic pain, mind you.

First you were using the Grammys as your argument and after I clocked you with logic, you suddenly change your narrative into who's the better singer, when literally no one here thinks Madonna is the better singer.

Madonna is a fantastic songwriter and has written some of the most iconic pop songs of all time. All of her collaborators have praised how involved she is and she comes up with most of the melodies within minutes. In this regard she's very similar to Gaga. She's the woman who's responsible for albums like True Blue, Like A Prayer, Erotica, Ray Of Light just to name a few. 

"Gaga is perhaps a worse dancer than Madonna but that's because of her chronic pain." Like please, we know dancing is not Gaga's forte even before she broke her hip. Madonna studied dancing in university with full scholarship FFS. 

It's one thing to dislike Madonna because of the Gaga beef but to completely dismiss her talent and legacy is just plain ignorant. 

[Bogdan 164]

1 hour ago, Edge Of Venus said:

It's one thing to dislike Madonna because of the Gaga beef but to completely dismiss her talent and legacy is just plain ignorant. 

I never dismissed Madonna's work. I just said Gaga's is better from many point of views. Nice strawman.

 

1 hour ago, Edge Of Venus said:

First you were using the Grammys as your argument and after I clocked you with logic, you suddenly change your narrative into who's the better singer,

Grammies are an indicator of artistry, whether you believe it or not. Grammies are awarded for artists within the music industry, which primarily consists of singers (and musical composers). They are a clear indicator of vocal dexterity and you are trying to make it look like those 2 things are disconnected. They aren't.

Gaga is the better singer and has more Grammies than Madonna per time invested. This is not a coincidence. And Grammy awards specific for pop performance date back to 1958-1959. Just because Like a prayer didn't receive any nominations, that doesn't mean Grammies were unjust back then. That's one big tin foil hat you got with no evidence to back it up.

[brizoda 3,109]

The problem I have with Madonna is that she's ever been a bytch to other artists

But I can't deny her place in music history

[Antichrist 9,818]

45 minutes ago, Unwavering said:

I never dismissed Madonna's work. I just said Gaga's is better from many point of views. Nice strawman.

 

Grammies are an indicator of artistry, whether you believe it or not. Grammies are awarded for artists within the music industry, which primarily consists of singers (and musical composers). They are a clear indicator of vocal dexterity and you are trying to make it look like those 2 things are disconnected. They aren't.

Gaga is the better singer and has more Grammies than Madonna per time invested. This is not a coincidence. And Grammy awards specific for pop performance date back to 1958-1959. Just because Like a prayer didn't receive any nominations, that doesn't mean Grammies were unjust back then. That's one big tin foil hat you got with no evidence to back it up.

you contradict yourself.

 

not every artist will have music for every person. doesn't mean someone's work is better tho.

[Edge Of Venus 731]

45 minutes ago, Unwavering said:

I never dismissed Madonna's work. I just said Gaga's is better from many point of views. Nice strawman.

 

Grammies are an indicator of artistry, whether you believe it or not. Grammies are awarded for artists within the music industry, which primarily consists of singers (and musical composers). They are a clear indicator of vocal dexterity and you are trying to make it look like those 2 things are disconnected. They aren't.

Gaga is the better singer and has more Grammies than Madonna per time invested. This is not a coincidence. And Grammy awards specific for pop performance date back to 1958-1959. Just because Like a prayer didn't receive any nominations, that doesn't mean Grammies were unjust back then. That's one big tin foil hat you got with no evidence to back it up.

Prince has 7 Grammys

David Bowie had 1 before he died.

Bjork has ZERO 

Taylor Swift has TEN.

 

Just keep going if you think the Grammys is an important indication of artistry.

 

 

 

 

[Oriane 18,987]

As a singer, I think we all know what kind of "talent" she has, any basic candidate at The Voice or shows like this sings better.

As a songwriter ? Ok, let's say she's more talented than an average person. I still find her music very basic. Even Ray of Light that is apparently supposed to be more sober and mature, I just heard basic "boom boom boom", except for a few songs.

As a dancer ? She's good but I've always been told she wanted to be a dancer but wasn't good enough so she did music instead. Certainly doesn't compare to the greatest dancers in the world. Sure, she's one of the best dancers in pop music but she's supposed to be a musician.

As an entertainer/performer/artist ? Oh, sure, you can say she's got some good visuals (I personally see more provocation than anything but whatever), but what is her contribution in this ? She has a whole team that helped her create her image, looks, visuals, and yes it's the same for all the pop singers, even Gaga. I love this side of Gaga because the visuals always match her music but I wouldn't respect her if she wasn't a talented singer and songwriter. I don't see the point if this is just a fig-leaf.

And calling her the Queen of Pop just because she was the most popular and had a great career... When her male equivalent is Michael Jackson...

[Bogdan 164]

51 minutes ago, Edge Of Venus said:

Just keep going if you think the Grammys is an important indication of artistry.

Nice argument dodging there. It is an important indication of artistry, but of course it's not the only one. You seem to think they're meaningless, which is flat out intellectually dishonest.

But ignore the Grammies if you'd like. I'm more content with the fact that Gaga has a better voice and better songwritting skills.

56 minutes ago, Antichrist said:

you contradict yourself.

"from many point of views."

Did you miss this?

59 minutes ago, Antichrist said:

doesn't mean someone's work is better tho.

We're not talking about the work itself. We're talking about voice and songwritting skills, which can be judged objectively to a certain extent.

[TheBatman 951]

I should stay out of this dumb thread but are we now comparing who is a better song writer?! 

What singles did Gaga write that are better than Like A Prayer, Live to Tell, or Oh Father, just for starters. ( I won't compare singles M wrote after 10 yrs in so we can stay comparable to Gaga's first decade, but of course Erotica, Bedtime Stories, ROL and American Life and on have some amazing songs she wrote as well)

How about videos? 

LAP era: Like a Prayer, Express Yourself, Cherish, Oh Father

Joanne: Perfect Illusion, Million Reasons

Artistry of the Blonde Ambition Tour compared to Joanne World Tour? 

Like, there is really no reason to compare two talented artists this way but ok, because the idea that one of our greatest artists in music is talentless is ridiculous

 

 

[PeterPan 0]

Madonna is definitely talented or she wouldnt have lasted 34 yrs in this industry

/end thread

[Bogdan 164]

19 minutes ago, TheBatman said:

Like, there is really no reason to compare two talented artists this way but ok, because the idea that one of our greatest artists in music is talentless is ridiculous

Yes, except no one said Madonna is talentless. It's just that Gaga is better.

Also, videos aren't accurate depictions of an artist's potential, especially not in music per say. There is an entire team that works on a music video and the artist only needs to stare in it and lip sync... That's pretty much it. Unless the artist directed the music video, but I wouldn't know in Madonna's case. But that's not musical artistry per say either.

[insight 2,427]

If Madonna is that talentless, then kudos to her for managing to fool the general public for 34 years. 

[codymonster 7,937]

She definitely is talented! She, in my opinion, just doesn't have a good voice. And that's important to me, so I can't say I'm a fan. But I definitely think it's foolish to say she doesn't have any talent; she's killed it with her career and her art, I you cant deny that.