Cultural Appropriation

[Wolf 1,328]

Just now, Creativek said:

I don't think you have factual information regarding how offensive this is to native Japanese. I just see another opinion.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/11/katy-perrys-geisha-style-performance-needs-to-be-called-out/281805/

https://crystalleww.tumblr.com/post/68037649566/isabelthespy-enaek-sent-me-a-link-to-katy-perry

“I am in my 20s, and the shitbag boys who used to pull their eyes back and say 'ching chong' still hurt me,” the writer (and friend of mine) Crystal Leww wrote last night. “This sort of **** is not funny or artistic to me; it just reminds me that I am still not an American to a lot of people and that someone who looks like me still cannot be a Katy Perry of the world.”

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Like I said, just because your boyfriend is not offended by it, it's still an issue that exists. This goes hand in hand with racism and at worst, hate crimes (especially with black culture).

Do i need to hand it in a silver platter to you to prove that it exists? I'm not saying that you and your boyfriend should be offended by just a small sight of cultural appropriation. Just acknowledge this exists and don't merely dismiss it as something as annoying.

and fyi, I also have a close friend who's Japanese as well, and she hates when people treat Asian culture as a general/one thing, and when people are so misinformed. Is that enough opinion for you?

[Wolf 1,328]

22 minutes ago, Bette Davis said:

She's not even dressed as a geisha or even in Japanese attire for that matter  It's a Chinese dress called a qipao. I'm sorry, it's just a little ironic after reading your post 

Japanese Geisha

Chinese Qipao

Oh God lol. My mistake. See, this is what I was trying to point out 

[Cuchulainn 3,040]

8 minutes ago, Wolf said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/11/katy-perrys-geisha-style-performance-needs-to-be-called-out/281805/

https://crystalleww.tumblr.com/post/68037649566/isabelthespy-enaek-sent-me-a-link-to-katy-perry

“I am in my 20s, and the shitbag boys who used to pull their eyes back and say 'ching chong' still hurt me,” the writer (and friend of mine) Crystal Leww wrote last night. “This sort of **** is not funny or artistic to me; it just reminds me that I am still not an American to a lot of people and that someone who looks like me still cannot be a Katy Perry of the world.”

-------------------------------------------------------------

Like I said, just because your boyfriend is not offended by it, it's still an issue that exists. This goes hand in hand with racism and at worst, hate crimes (especially with black culture).

Do i need to hand it in a silver platter to you to prove that it exists? I'm not saying that you and your boyfriend should be offended by just a small sight of cultural appropriation. Just acknowledge this exists and don't merely dismiss it as something as annoying.

and fyi, I also have a close friend who's Japanese as well, and she hates when people treat Asian culture as a general/one thing, and when people are so misinformed. Is that enough opinion for you?

But you seem to think his opinion is irrelevant because he disagrees about this issue. I am not dismissing the fact that people are offended (people get offended about literally anything) I am just giving you another perspective. One Japanese person thinks it's ridiculous, and apparently you found some that think Katy Perry is being offensive. 

My issue was that you seemed to speak on behalf of all of Japan in your original argument. Sweeping statements like that are not generally accurate.

I don't know why you feel the need to insult my intelligence? Can't you argue without getting so heated?

[Wolf 1,328]

15 minutes ago, Creativek said:

But you seem to think his opinion is irrelevant because he disagrees about this issue. I am not dismissing the fact that people are offended (people get offended about literally anything) I am just giving you another perspective. One Japanese person thinks it's ridiculous, and apparently you found some that think Katy Perry is being offensive. 

My issue was that you seemed to speak on behalf of all of Japan in your original argument. Sweeping statements like that are not generally accurate.

I don't know why you feel the need to insult my intelligence? Can't you argue without getting so heated?

I also respect your opinion. Sorry if I made it seem otherwise  but I respectfully disagree. And no, I don't speak for all of Japan, nor does any single person does. 

And I agree that people get offended about literally everything. But I was triggered by the OP and got carried away. This issue hits close to home 

[Bette Davis 12,742]

1 hour ago, Wolf said:

Oh God lol. My mistake. See, this is what I was trying to point out 

It happens to everyone at one time or another  

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

1 hour ago, River said:

Do you consider Gwen and the Harajuku Girls as Cultural Appropriation for example? because as I see it, from neutral point of view, she embraced this culture and let us know that it exist, but in the other hand she used it for profit and even designed clothes for her line. so I would like to know what do you think and to learn from it.

 

That's complicated  With Gwen, its nice that she had a genuine interest in and love of the culture, but it was problematic that she marketed it in such a glazed over, non specific way. If she was really interested in being accurate though, she would've actually gotten to know the Harajuku scene, collaborated with designers and models from there, spoken to people there, etc. She had a very definite "This is what I see of the culture, therefore the culture is this __" mentality from what I recall. This obv. isn't the end of the world, but it was still problematic, so take that as you will.

Some Asian cultures (people love to bring up Japan) love to have their culture shared in any way possible. Japan even has lots of cultural ambassadors, and sharing culture is really big even within and between different parts of the country. So many people might tell you that they do not mind. They also have different values and some Asian countries believe maintaining composure is sometimes even more important than being correct, so they may not tell you to your face  Ofc, this is all based on my experiences with people from said countries and research I've done, I've not traveled all over Asia, so grain of salt  

Even if they may not mind it, we can surely say that accurate portrayals of culture are more beneficial to everyone involved. To me, this indicates that you respect and admire the culture and do not wish to benefit off of it. And again, none of this is world endingly bad, but some examples are more life changing than others. You dont have to do anything to stop it, but I'm a big fan of action and hate complacency, so I work to better myself anyway I can, even if its unnoticed by others.

[donutellha 13,819]

4 hours ago, PartySick said:

So white culture being present in the culture of minorities is forced but minority culture being present in white culture is appropriation and offensive?  Could it not just be assumed that those traditions were integrated into a society filled with thousands of different backgrounds to be expressed by anyone in that society? Why is it only people with white skin who are the criminals in these scenarios? It's as if they can do no right unless they're constantly walking on egg shells and pandering to everyone while talking down to people who are the same color as they are  Even then, they're only one misstep away from being a bigot.

Like, would it have been fine for Katy to wear that Japanese inspired outfit if she carried a text book with Japan's rich cultural history and read it aloud as she walked down the carpet? Or would that have also been interpreted as her mocking the culture or trying to use it to sell the "Katy Perry" brand?

I just find all of this stuff so silly  Latino culture and gay culture have been used to sell products or grab views/steams/sales/whatever so many times here and I honestly couldn't care less. There are SOOOO many more problems in the world that need attention if you ask me  I'm not concerned with products or popstars, I'm concerned with bigots and violent people. If Gaga wants to make a Spanglish song about unfair immigration laws or say "chola descent" in a pride anthem, I think that's great.

And about the argument that white people can get away with doing things that others can't despite it actually being their culture...well, why make the white people that can do it the bad guy in that scenario? If black girls get detention for wearing braids but white people can get away with it, why aren't you guys gunning for the people who put black girls in detention for their hairstyle instead?  That's another part of this whole deal that I'm totally missing. "You can get away with this while they get punished for it so I'm going to hate you rather than the people punishing them!" Like...what?

Once again, I'm just not seeing the logic in these SJW/PC arguments. I just see a different method of division.

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I mean, you guys are entitled to your opinions of course. I won't even say that you're wrong either 'cause your feelings are just as valid as mine, I just disagree

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Also, I'm exhausted so Idk if half of this is even totally coherent

 

 

I get you and totally agree on those arguments (needless to say I did write that piece in a flurry of frustration), and as for the part I bolded, I really wish history could have gone that way too, but "westernization" was really brutal (w/ solid evidence). It was less of "hey! let's take the good stuff of mine an blend it in with yours" and more "hey! let's force our culture onto you instantly whether you like it or not because we CAN'T stand you not being like us!"

and the thing with katy is she totally doesn't have to be a well rounded expert, a 5-minute google search could tell anyone that what she wore was pretty inappropriate for the culture, and personally, I couldn't call it selling a culture if she or her stylists did a quick google search and could justify their choice, even on a basic level

and with the last part, I really agree with you on the whole division thing of not punishing the people who are doing it! But the thing is progress is always slow and painful- it always been, but hopefully it will be better soon!

[River 117,241]

2 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

That's complicated  With Gwen, its nice that she had a genuine interest in and love of the culture, but it was problematic that she marketed it in such a glazed over, non specific way. If she was really interested in being accurate though, she would've actually gotten to know the Harajuku scene, collaborated with designers and models from there, spoken to people there, etc. She had a very definite "This is what I see of the culture, therefore the culture is this __" mentality from what I recall. This obv. isn't the end of the world, but it was still problematic, so take that as you will.

Some Asian cultures (people love to bring up Japan) love to have their culture shared in any way possible. Japan even has lots of cultural ambassadors, and sharing culture is really big even within and between different parts of the country. So many people might tell you that they do not mind. They also have different values and some Asian countries believe maintaining composure is sometimes even more important than being correct, so they may not tell you to your face  Ofc, this is all based on my experiences with people from said countries and research I've done, I've not traveled all over Asia, so grain of salt  

Even if they may not mind it, we can surely say that accurate portrayals of culture are more beneficial to everyone involved. To me, this indicates that you respect and admire the culture and do not wish to benefit off of it. And again, none of this is world endingly bad, but some examples are more life changing than others. You dont have to do anything to stop it, but I'm a big fan of action and hate complacency, so I work to better myself anyway I can, even if its unnoticed by others.

Thank you for this! it's nice to learn new things

[15jocart 2,305]

Good lord, where do I start with this...GGD has a...history...of intentional ignorance towards this topic. But here's a rundown:

Cultural appropriation may not seem as bad as, say, lynching, and obviously it's not, but it is rooted in racism and toxic colonialism. Gaga's done it, Katy's done it, even Bey has done it...there is not a single celebrity on earth that hasn't done it to a degree. And they're all in the wrong, but honestly the best we can hope for once that happens is a sincere apology and an attempt to learn about the culture that was appropriated.

A great example of cultural appreciation is Lindsay Lohan and Islamic cultures. Look it up, she has immersed herself in the culture, educated herself, and is using her power as a star to give positive representation to it. This is directly opposite, to say Katy's geisha outfit or Gaga's dreads, where these stars just wore them for a fashion statement.

[15jocart 2,305]

8 hours ago, PerfectIllusion said:

White people cant do this but it is totally ok when black women wear wigs to look more "white"....

Well, yeah, because black women are routinely denied jobs, racially profiled, and more awful things due to their natural hair. White women, as a whole, are not: white features are the "beauty standard" and while this is slowly changing, it's understandable why a black woman would want to change what she looks like to fit what society deems as beautiful.

[15jocart 2,305]

7 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Cultural appropriation is a new concept.

No, it's not. Just because you're learning about something in 2017 doesn't make it new.

6 hours ago, PartySick said:

Latino culture and gay culture have been used to sell products or grab views/steams/sales/whatever so many times here and I honestly couldn't care less.

Good for you. However, it offends and impacts many more people than just you 

[GGDisbetter 2,187]

Well cultural appropriation doesn't actually exist 

 

Wearing clothing or hair in a particular way isn't stealing from a culture. Secondly, you can't get "permission" from a culture to wear something (since its impossible to get a whole cultures permisssion and there will always be one person complaining). And the other thing is culture we see today is mixed - ie. different cultures have aspects and beliefs which they got from other cultures through migration.

Calling out celebrities for clothing choices (in this way)  is really immature tbh. 

 

[The Master 376]

Cultural appropriation is BS, it doesn't exist. 

[Laceface 2,964]

15 hours ago, Adampervez said:

What a suprise of Simon having to mention the arab world and islam. Boy i see you in every single international relation or cultural or racial topic on this site and you always find a way to mention your dislike of arabs and muslims. Do not come for another member saying theyre trying ti come across as a 'white saviour' when in every single message u post you come across as some 'jewish saviour'

Before you come for me or claim im antisemitic, half of my family is jewish and the other half is muslim. Im simple stating what ive seen in the past few years.

 Exact same whenever negative news arises for a jab at Britain too. Noticed this for over a year now too. 

[sipthistea 21,099]

I think people are too sensible about everything nowadays. 

Instead of making a big deal about a popstar who wore a japanese costume or who used dreadlocks, we should be raising our voices against social injustice, terrorism, violence and intolerance.