Cultural Appropriation

[Supersonic 49,376]

2 minutes ago, stvn said:

First: it's shouldn't be a privilige , it should be a right to wear the clothes you wanna wear and not experience death threats

No one should ever experience death threats for anything. That is not cool. However, that does not mean that people should not be respectful of other cultures. If the appropriation is being done in a way that commoditizes and/or fetishizes a culture / if it doesn't come from a genuine place / if it does harm to a community by stereotyping them or painting them in a bad light / if it does harm to a community by cheapening the actual cultural message / if it presents itself in a way antithetical to the actual meaning of the cultural item or custom / etc., THEN IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE. There are certain questions that should be asked in these situations because the context is different in any situation. Eminem gets a pass from the black community because 1) he grew up in a hip hop culture and is legitimately a part of it and understands it 2) he never claims to be black and doesn't use the N word and knows why he shouldn't. Eminem is not bad cultural appropriation because he has an intimate understanding of the culture he was influenced by. On the other hand, you have Lana Del Rey who threw on an indian headdress with presumably no knowledge of its sacred meaning and significance, and that is flat rude and damaging. Imagine your favorite movie in the whole world being used to sell albums for someone who literally didn't even know the plot. It's ignorant and uneducated.

That's the point I was trying to make, but thank you very much for mansplaining it as if I was an adolescent child incapable formulating complex thoughts.

4 minutes ago, stvn said:

I literally don't even know why you said this or what your point is, but it certainly sounds like you're blaming victims. Like this is the kind of mindset where you say poor people are poor because it's their fault and it has nothing to do with a greater societal structure. If this isn't what you meant, please clarify why you said it.

The point is: Cultural appropriation is not a phenomenon that only white people exhibit: Korean hip-hop culture commodifies and mindlessly appropriates African-American and Latinx culture, the Ganguro subculture of Japan appropiates African-American culture to the point of people walking around in permament blackface, Nicki Minaj appropriated Japanese culture, Beyoncé has been criticized for appropiating Hindu imagery and Indian culture in that Coldplay video. If you think that people of color cannot be criticized or held accountable for their wrongdoings, you're following a narrative that strips them from their responsibility and makes them into adult babies that have to be taken care of constantly. And that's actually kinda racist.

[stvn 618]

12 minutes ago, ZacharyMark said:

My issue is that we scorn white people for cultural appropriation even though it exists everywhere including in the asian and black communities. CA happens all the time and it's stupid, but it's even worse to be hypocritical and only attack certain groups for doing it when everyone can be an abuser of the act.

Of course nonwhite people can do it. But white people certainly do it with the most power and visibility. And privilege.

[stvn 618]

1 minute ago, Supersonic said:

That's the point I was trying to make, but thank you very much for mansplaining it as if I was an adolescent child incapable formulating complex thoughts.

The point is: Cultural appropriation is not a phenomenon that only white people exhibit: Korean hip-hop culture commodifies and mindlessly appropriates African-American and Latinx culture, the Ganguro subculture of Japan appropiates African-American culture to the point of people walking around in permament blackface, Nicki Minaj appropriated Japanese culture, Beyoncé has been criticized for appropiating Hindu imagery and Indian culture in that Coldplay video. If you think that people of color cannot be criticized or held accountable for their wrongdoings, you're following a narrative that strips them from their responsibility and makes them into adult babies that have to be taken care of constantly. And that's actually kinda racist.

4

When the hell did I say that people of color can't culturally appropriate? Don't call me racist. And I wasn't mansplaining or gaysplaining or whatever, I was literally responding to what you said and elaborating on the statement, not just for you, but for some of the people in this thread who are making extremely ignorant comments. I don't know your entire thought process on this and I would never speak for you, but I have a right to be a part of this discussion without being called racist for god knows what reason. If you can't handle the discussion that's fine, but I'm happy to have it, and if I misunderstood you (which it seems I might have in some ways) then I am happy to admit that too!

If you think that people of color cannot be criticized or held accountable for their wrongdoings, you're following a narrative that strips them from their responsibility and makes them into adult babies that have to be taken care of constantly. And that's actually kinda racist.

I never said that people of color can't culturally appropriate, nor did I ever say they shouldn't be held accountable. But as a part of a larger discussion, the context, again, is different in every situation. Racism is the systemic oppression of a certain race on a societal level, and it's different from prejudice. The case for racism against white people is weak at best, although people can be personally prejudiced against them. So please don't throw around the word racism casually and as an insult. It has a specific meaning. And let me explain what you just did here: you called me racist because I pointed out that very often white people appropriate other cultures. You weren't happy that I was vilifying white people (even though that's not what I was doing -- I was holding them accountable for their power and what they do more often than anyone else) and you questioned why I didn't also call out POC. It certainly seems like you have an angle on this, and it certainly seems like you're intrinsically skeptical and hostile towards anyone who makes statements about white people without knocking down POC at the same time. Again, I never said POC can't appropriate, but the fact that you got so mad when I mentioned white people (who have the most power and visibility) speaks volumes.

[Daredevil 2,133]

If I were to walk down the street in a Led Zeppelin t-shirt but couldn't name one of their albums, a fan would think I'm stupid and be annoyed, right? But if a person does the same thing with a culture, then cultural appropriation isn't real and people "are offended by everything"?

People on this website need to educate themselves. There's a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation 

[DeleteMyAccount 11,881]

15 minutes ago, stvn said:

Of course nonwhite people can do it. But white people certainly do it with the most power and visibility. And privilege.

It doesn't matter. That wasn't my point. Everyone does it.

[stvn 618]

7 minutes ago, ZacharyMark said:

It doesn't matter. That wasn't my point. Everyone does it.

Actually the fact that white people have the most power and visibility in society, in general, is definitely relevant to any sociological analysis of any cultural practice.

That does not mean cultural appropriation is any less of an issue when it's done by a POC, but erasing white privilege from the discussion is also problematic.

[stvn 618]

12 minutes ago, Daredevil said:

If I were to walk down the street in a Led Zeppelin t-shirt but couldn't name one of their albums, a fan would think I'm stupid and be annoyed, right? But if a person does the same thing with a culture, then cultural appropriation isn't real and people "are offended by everything"?

People on this website need to educate themselves. There's a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation 

EXACTLY.

I was going to try to make this example: Think of your absolute FAVORITE movie/comic/whatever in the world. Now imagine someone using that comic/movie/whatever for their branding or to sell albums or energy drinks. Now imagine that the person using your FAVORITE thing has NO knowledge of your favorite thing, it's story, it's context, and it's emotional meaning, and is misrepresenting it. Would you be annoyed? Of course you damn well would. And the brand being misrepresented could suffer by being delegitimized, bastardized, made fun of, etc etc etc

So it's funny how people understand the issue when it's a corporate/capitalist problem but fail to see the issue when it's cultural stock that is being stolen without proper knowledge.

[DeleteMyAccount 11,881]

10 minutes ago, stvn said:

Actually the fact that white people have the most power and visibility in society, in general, is definitely relevant to any sociological analysis of any cultural practice.

That does not mean cultural appropriation is any less of an issue when it's done by a POC, but erasing white privilege from the discussion is also problematic.

I not erasing anyone. I'm clearing stating that it's an issue that we all face and groups who blame another while cultural appropriating other cultures is hypocritical. I said nothing about erasing white privilege or dismissing the acknowledgement of white power.

[stvn 618]

Just now, ZacharyMark said:

I not erasing anyone. I'm clearing stating that it's an issue that we all face and groups who blame another while cultural appropriating other cultures is hypocritical. I said nothing about erasing white privilege or dismissing the acknowledgement of white power.

Okay, then we agree! Sorry if I misunderstood. It's hard to tell what's going on because there were a bunch of ignorant comments in this thread (not from you)

[theahsfan 13,822]

People literally make comments like this to seem all woke and it's so annoying

[ifuseektrading 7]

5 hours ago, Red said:

Why people keep opening threads about cultural appropriation every week? It always turns into a mess and a WP storm

omg really, i'm new here so like i don't know if your joking or not 

[Sailor 3,321]

"Enigma popstar is fun, she wear burqa for fashion. It's not a statement as much as just a move of passion."

[Red 98,021]

28 minutes ago, ifuseektrading said:

omg really, i'm new here so like i don't know if your joking or not 

There is at least two per month and it always gets messy

[Adampervez 603]

You must be white

[PerfectIllusion 6,616]

White people cant do this but it is totally ok when black women wear wigs to look more "white"....