Hey Girl Samples Elton John

[sillynate 6,170]

I don't think this has become an issue because Elton and Gagz are super close  she probably asked if she could sample it without giving credit when they wrote Room in my Heart 

But I do hear similarities between the two 

[styleyourvision 606]

22 minutes ago, sillynate said:

I don't think this has become an issue because Elton and Gagz are super close  she probably asked if she could sample it without giving credit when they wrote Room in my Heart 

But I do hear similarities between the two 

Yeah I never thought it would become an issue for that very reason - there's no way Elton would sue Gaga and there's no way Gaga would sample Elton without his permission. 

[Jewels n Drugs 4,629]

3 hours ago, styleyourvision said:

Goil look at you finkin u Jimmy Iovine o sumthin  - what I said are FACTS backed up by years studying intellectual property (specifically music)  law school from a top 10 intellectual property law school in the USA...so if you want me to walk you through your mistakes I don't mind 

First up "piano chords are structured already so everyone can use them the way they want so it's not like Elton or the producer of the song created it or something which is distinct of the melody." 

There is no court case ever handed down (at least in the USA) that says piano (or any other instrument) chords are structured therefore they're in the public domain. What you're probably thinking of is the theory called scènes à faire, which means that there is essentially no other way to express a particular idea except by using certain elements. For example, a simple C-F-G chord progression would fall under scènes à faire, because there is only one way to express a C-F-G chord.

Second "Legally speaking, a sample is the use of a part of the song (mostly hooks or instrumentation/ beats) you cannot sample a piano or guitar chord."

This is completely untrue as well. There have been plenty of copyright cases regarding an alleged copyright infringement for the unauthorized use of certain chords. For example (and there are many more than just this one), in a recent case between the bands Led Zeppelin and Spirit, Led Zeppelin is being accused of taking Stairway to Heaven's chord progression from Spirit's song "Taurus." The original complaint even admits facts such as:

  Reveal hidden contents

"[T]he similarities between 'Taurus' and the iconic notes, melody, chord progression, structure, tempo, instrumentation, and feel of 'Stairway to Heaven' are so strikingly similar that independent creation is precluded....Substantial similarity between 'Taurus' and 'Stairway to Heaven' is established because, to a reasonable observer, the iconic notes, melody, chord progression, structure, tempo, instrumentation, and feel of 'Stairway to Heaven' sound almost identical to Plaintiff's protected expression in 'Taurus.'"

Third "I recommend you to check the credits on ARTPOP, Gaga sampled Sun Ra on Venus and she credited the artist as a songwriter (most of the artist do check Beyoncé) since then labels or record companies are only responsible for the royalties for the artist under their control credited on another artist work."

The HUGE difference here is that Gaga actually used the LYRICS from Sun Ra's (and Zombie Zombie's subsequent remake of) Rocket Number 9. Lyrics and composition are an entirely different copyright from the actual sound recording. Gaga's use of their words is why they got writing credits on the song - not just simply because she "sampled" them so therefore any sampling will have gotten writing credits.

Similarly, and lastly, "recently Ed sampled TLC on Shape of You, the label that released No Scrubs was LaFace/Arista but he credited TLC not the label"

This also doesn't mean a thing about when or how artists list people they sample, but rather, artists add people to credits of their songs ALL THE TIME to avoid any potential litigation. It does NOT mean that they were actually sampled. It's much easier and MUCH cheaper to pay a small licensing fee for having sounding similar songs and give credit to fellow artists rather than fight it out in court costing millions.

See: http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/7735550/ed-sheeran-tlc-no-scrubs-writers-shape-of-you-credits

If Gaga did cover Bennie and the Jets in Hey Girl (which there is no doubt she did if you just listen and analyze the chords, progressions, instruments, and timbre) she would have no reason to fear litigation from Elton John who is a family member to her. I'm sure he didn't even make her go through any formal processes or get an official clearance and allowed her to just use it.

 

[HausofLenis 734]

16 hours ago, styleyourvision said:

Goil look at you finkin u Jimmy Iovine o sumthin  - what I said are FACTS backed up by years studying intellectual property (specifically music)  law school from a top 10 intellectual property law school in the USA...so if you want me to walk you through your mistakes I don't mind 

First up "piano chords are structured already so everyone can use them the way they want so it's not like Elton or the producer of the song created it or something which is distinct of the melody." 

There is no court case ever handed down (at least in the USA) that says piano (or any other instrument) chords are structured therefore they're in the public domain. What you're probably thinking of is the theory called scènes à faire, which means that there is essentially no other way to express a particular idea except by using certain elements. For example, a simple C-F-G chord progression would fall under scènes à faire, because there is only one way to express a C-F-G chord.

Second "Legally speaking, a sample is the use of a part of the song (mostly hooks or instrumentation/ beats) you cannot sample a piano or guitar chord."

This is completely untrue as well. There have been plenty of copyright cases regarding an alleged copyright infringement for the unauthorized use of certain chords. For example (and there are many more than just this one), in a recent case between the bands Led Zeppelin and Spirit, Led Zeppelin is being accused of taking Stairway to Heaven's chord progression from Spirit's song "Taurus." The original complaint even admits facts such as:

  Hide contents

"[T]he similarities between 'Taurus' and the iconic notes, melody, chord progression, structure, tempo, instrumentation, and feel of 'Stairway to Heaven' are so strikingly similar that independent creation is precluded....Substantial similarity between 'Taurus' and 'Stairway to Heaven' is established because, to a reasonable observer, the iconic notes, melody, chord progression, structure, tempo, instrumentation, and feel of 'Stairway to Heaven' sound almost identical to Plaintiff's protected expression in 'Taurus.'"

Third "I recommend you to check the credits on ARTPOP, Gaga sampled Sun Ra on Venus and she credited the artist as a songwriter (most of the artist do check Beyoncé) since then labels or record companies are only responsible for the royalties for the artist under their control credited on another artist work."

The HUGE difference here is that Gaga actually used the LYRICS from Sun Ra's (and Zombie Zombie's subsequent remake of) Rocket Number 9. Lyrics and composition are an entirely different copyright from the actual sound recording. Gaga's use of their words is why they got writing credits on the song - not just simply because she "sampled" them so therefore any sampling will have gotten writing credits.

Similarly, and lastly, "recently Ed sampled TLC on Shape of You, the label that released No Scrubs was LaFace/Arista but he credited TLC not the label"

This also doesn't mean a thing about when or how artists list people they sample, but rather, artists add people to credits of their songs ALL THE TIME to avoid any potential litigation. It does NOT mean that they were actually sampled. It's much easier and MUCH cheaper to pay a small licensing fee for having sounding similar songs and give credit to fellow artists rather than fight it out in court costing millions.

See: http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/7735550/ed-sheeran-tlc-no-scrubs-writers-shape-of-you-credits

If Gaga did cover Bennie and the Jets in Hey Girl (which there is no doubt she did if you just listen and analyze the chords, progressions, instruments, and timbre) she would have no reason to fear litigation from Elton John who is a family member to her. I'm sure he didn't even make her go through any formal processes or get an official clearance and allowed her to just use it.

ok I'm not acting like I'm the owner of the truth or something but neither are you, I also have my studies and actual practice in this stuff so as I said piano chords are in general now a chord progression is different (I don't see any similarities in the progression of both songs just the same chord in particular)

In the law camp you can check cases in other countries it's really something more of an interpretation as you said but anyways I don't think she sampled or covered anything bc if Elton is so close to her why wouldn't she just credit his name and praise him like she did with Beck?