Miley distances herself from Hip-Hop

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

34 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I actually find everything you've said to be very offensive. It seems putting down white people and European culture in general is fine because some ignorant people think we have no culture or are stupid and ignorant just by virtue of where we live or the colour of our skin (which is pretty racist and xenophobic). Nobody is saying that Europe is the only continent or that it's the baseline for everything, where on earth did you get that idea? All that's being said is merely: "Americans with their racial obsessions could learn a thing or two from Europe and its colourblind standpoint." More and more Americans, especially the ones who are very PC, are claiming that being colourblind doesn't work when in reality, this idea is operating very well in Europe. Surely history has shown us that when people start to see differences between them and other groups, that's when the problems start? But no, PC American culture insists on not even trying out the concept just to see how it goes. And where do you get the idea that Europeans know nothing about indigenous people or the slave trade? Considering that my country was one of the biggest slave trade capitals of the world, I think you'll find that this history is one we're always reminded of. I am really interested to know where you get the impression that Europeans don't know about this stuff. As a Brit, we're very into American culture, so we are well aware of stereotypes, people making a mockery of culture and the social justice conversation in general. Europe is not cut off from America, we do have the internet and tv to connect us. I've noticed that ever since last year, for the first time ever, I'm starting to get people assuming that I'm uneducated and ignorant about certain things just because I am white, which has been a very frustrating experience for me. But bringing my nationality into it as well? Is that really the way the wind blows?

Is it too much to ask that Americans look outside themselves and see how other nations are dealing with race and see if they're better or worse off for it? And then see if they could emulate some of those ideas? I think when a country becomes too caught up in their way of seeing things, their way of doing things, like America is famous for, they can restrict themselves to limited ideas and perspectives. The reason why America isn't improving in its race relations is because they just keep peddling out systems that have been proven to not work. America likes to do things its own way and thinks they can educate the world on the right path. They don't want to take inspiration from other countries and their way of doing things, even if said countries are thriving and America is not. I feel really sorry for American citizens who are trying to push ideas of colourblindness forward but are getting stifled by the overwhelming idea of segregation that unfortunately pervades millions in their country.

Again, why does America have to look to Europe for what to do? We have a vastly different history with race, and you said yourself that you'd only seen a few black people in person. That worldview is something few Americans can relate to. Colorblindness has been shown time and time again to simply mask problems, and Europe has race problems as well, acid attacks are known to occur, and Islamophobia is just as big of a problem. Again, America's history with race is more recent than the European slave trade popularized by our white ancestors. I'm not attacking European culture, I just don't agree with the assertion that more diverse continents need to look to Europe for guidance, as that narrative has led to so many problems. 

[Whispering 18,865]

16 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

 

 

Is it too much to ask that Americans look outside themselves and see how other nations are dealing with race and see if they're better or worse off for it? And then see if they could emulate some of those ideas? I think when a country becomes too caught up in their way of seeing things, their way of doing things, like America is famous for, they can restrict themselves to limited ideas and perspectives. The reason why America isn't improving in its race relations is because they just keep peddling out systems that have been proven to not work. America likes to do things its own way and thinks they can educate the world on the right path. They don't want to take inspiration from other countries and their way of doing things, even if said countries are thriving and America is not. I feel really sorry for American citizens who are trying to push ideas of colourblindness forward but are getting stifled by the overwhelming idea of segregation that unfortunately pervades millions in their country.

Is it too much to ask for non Americans to try and understand the long, complex history of race relations in the US? Generations of oppression tend to lead to ideas and attitudes that miiiight just be different from an area of the world in which the same types of oppression to the same people did not, and does not, occur. The reason why race relations are not improving is because the systematic oppression is still in place. No one is trying to educate the world on race relations...just deal with everything we have going on here. I feel sorry for Americans who are still victims of prejudice due to their skin color. I feel sorry for people who get followed around in stores because of their race. I feel sorry for people who get pulled over repeatedly for "driving while black or brown". I feel sorry for people who are denied a job or housing dud to the color of their skin. I feel sorry for moms and dads who are scared that their twelve year old will be shot by police for walking down the street...that putting their hands up won't be enough for the person with all the power...the person that the courts will back. 

Colorblindness is a nice idea, but one that doesn't work when the white folks in power are blinded by color. Millions live together in harmony in societies across the nation, but that doesn't mean that there aren't deep and concerning issues still left to deal with. 

[Whispering 18,865]

3 minutes ago, Dorothy Gale said:

 We have a vastly different history with race, and you said yourself that you'd only seen a few black people in person.

Wait...what? Is this for real? 

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

5 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Wait...what? Is this for real? 

 

[LDGA 1,260]

So glad that the oversexualized Miley was just a phase in her career and not her real persona. I die to listen her new material.

[LePetitGAGABLover 21,234]

Has anyone seen her Bangerz tour videos? She's the biggest hypocrite and is disgusting for using what's "trendy" in the black community to sell records. 

[Whispering 18,865]

3 minutes ago, Dorothy Gale said:

 

That explains so much. Could count the number of black people she ever saw in her whole life on two hands?! I can walk around my block and see more black people than that! Lol 

Different worlds, indeed! 

[StrawberryBlond 14,874]

3 minutes ago, Dorothy Gale said:

Again, why does America have to look to Europe for what to do? We have a vastly different history with race, and you said yourself that you'd only seen a few black people in person. That worldview is something few Americans can relate to. Colorblindness has been shown time and time again to simply mask problems, and Europe has race problems as well, acid attacks are known to occur, and Islamophobia is just as big of a problem. Again, America's history with race is more recent than the European slave trade popularized by our white ancestors. I'm not attacking European culture, I just don't agree with the assertion that more diverse continents need to look to Europe for guidance, as that narrative has led to so many problems. 

I'm not saying you have to look to America for what to do, just look at how any country other than your own is doing things and see if you could get inspired? I know that British schools have been trying to implement some of the Scandinavian models of teaching after Finland was revealed at the nation with best education system in the world with the most students staying in school, passing exams and generally being good students. We admitted that our system could be improved and looked outside ourselves at how the countries with the most thriving education systems are doing things and tried to emulate them. The key is swallowing your pride and admitting that your country doesn't always know best.

Yes, I admitted before that I actually saw very few black people growing up...so why wasn't I scared of them or viewed them as inferior or in any way different to me? Because I was raised in a place that, while not explicitly voicing it, encouraged colourblindness. Yeah, I saw a different colour but that was it, nothing more to say. No one else pointed out differences either. I remember my mum got me a black Barbie and she didn't even say to me something like "I know this is odd that I got you a black Barbie" and I didn't think it was anything unusual. That is how normalised we tried to keep things when it came to race. It was always seen as a big no-no in my culture to assume a black person was poor or liked rap music and suchlike because the idea was to get to know someone to find out what kind of person they were, rather than basing your judgement on external factors. So, when I see American culture almost seeming to encourage these stereotypes like it's a positive thing, I'm flabbergasted.

Yes, we have racial culture clashes too. Like you said, Islamaphobia is the biggest issue here and honestly, I think the issue is just as bad in America, yet there seems to be a battle with black people over who's the most oppressed, like it's a kind of competition or something. Oppression Olympics is what keeps oppression going. All I'm asking is that America entertain some new ideas instead of shutting things down as soon as the conversation arises, like here.

1 minute ago, Whispering said:

Is it too much to ask for non Americans to try and understand the long, complex history of race relations in the US? Generations of oppression tend to lead to ideas and attitudes that miiiight just be different from an area of the world in which the same types of oppression to the same people did not, and does not, occur. The reason why race relations are not improving is because the systematic oppression is still in place. No one is trying to educate the world on race relations...just deal with everything we have going on here. I feel sorry for Americans who are still victims of prejudice due to their skin color. I feel sorry for people who get followed around in stores because of their race. I feel sorry for people who get pulled over repeatedly for "driving while black or brown". I feel sorry for people who are denied a job or housing dud to the color of their skin. I feel sorry for moms and dads who are scared that their twelve year old will be shot by police for walking down the street...that putting their hands up won't be enough for the person with all the power...the person that the courts will back. 

Colorblindness is a nice idea, but one that doesn't work when the white folks in power are blinded by color. Millions live together in harmony in societies across the nation, but that doesn't mean that there aren't deep and concerning issues still left to deal with. 

I do understand it...but how come the rest of the world has moved on in their post-slave trade countries and America hasn't? I know they took longer to end slavery than most other nations but they've had more than enough time to move on and change attitudes. And you don't need to just feel sorrow for the oppressed. There's all different people who deserve your sympathy.

But if you implement colourblindess, it will eventually start to work, but it won't be overnight. No new system works overnight.

[Regina George 59,387]

22 minutes ago, Dorothy Gale said:

Again, why does America have to look to Europe for what to do? We have a vastly different history with race, and you said yourself that you'd only seen a few black people in person. That worldview is something few Americans can relate to. Colorblindness has been shown time and time again to simply mask problems, and Europe has race problems as well, acid attacks are known to occur, and Islamophobia is just as big of a problem. Again, America's history with race is more recent than the European slave trade popularized by our white ancestors. I'm not attacking European culture, I just don't agree with the assertion that more diverse continents need to look to Europe for guidance, as that narrative has led to so many problems. 

LMAO this is so funny.. cuz Europe people made America. It's a fact. It's a history. Learn about it. 

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

Just now, ReginaGeorge said:

LMAO this is so funny.. cuz Europe people made America. It's a fact. It's a history. Learn about it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

1 minute ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm not saying you have to look to America for what to do, just look at how any country other than your own is doing things and see if you could get inspired? I know that British schools have been trying to implement some of the Scandinavian models of teaching after Finland was revealed at the nation with best education system in the world with the most students staying in school, passing exams and generally being good students. We admitted that our system could be improved and looked outside ourselves at how the countries with the most thriving education systems are doing things and tried to emulate them. The key is swallowing your pride and admitting that your country doesn't always know best.

Yes, I admitted before that I actually saw very few black people growing up...so why wasn't I scared of them or viewed them as inferior or in any way different to me? Because I was raised in a place that, while not explicitly voicing it, encouraged colourblindness. Yeah, I saw a different colour but that was it, nothing more to say. No one else pointed out differences either. I remember my mum got me a black Barbie and she didn't even say to me something like "I know this is odd that I got you a black Barbie" and I didn't think it was anything unusual. That is how normalised we tried to keep things when it came to race. It was always seen as a big no-no in my culture to assume a black person was poor or liked rap music and suchlike because the idea was to get to know someone to find out what kind of person they were, rather than basing your judgement on external factors. So, when I see American culture almost seeming to encourage these stereotypes like it's a positive thing, I'm flabbergasted.

Yes, we have racial culture clashes too. Like you said, Islamaphobia is the biggest issue here and honestly, I think the issue is just as bad in America, yet there seems to be a battle with black people over who's the most oppressed, like it's a kind of competition or something. Oppression Olympics is what keeps oppression going. All I'm asking is that America entertain some new ideas instead of shutting things down as soon as the conversation arises, like here.

Buying a black doll for a child is hardly that progressive, my sister had primarily black dolls because she simply preferred them, and it was never an issue in my family, even with my grandparents. Not talking about racial differences at all is not the solution, we are different, what's wrong with talking about it? 

You just equated liking rap to being a negative stereotype. We're not encouraging stereotypes, but the fact is that the median wealth of white families is twenty times that of black families, clearly colorblindness isn't going to solve wealth distribution issues that have persisted for generations. 

[Whispering 18,865]

22 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

I do understand it...but how come the rest of the world has moved on in their post-slave trade countries and America hasn't? I know they took longer to end slavery than most other nations but they've had more than enough time to move on and change attitudes. And you don't need to just feel sorrow for the oppressed. There's all different people who deserve your sympathy.

But if you implement colourblindess, it will eventually start to work, but it won't be overnight. No new system works overnight.

I don't know, maybe because Grandmas are still around that had to sit at the back of the bus, Grandpas who had to drink from a different water fountain or Uncles and Aunts who had to use different bathrooms...because the income levels, despite education gains, is still the same as it was sixty years ago...because black and brown people are still being denied housing or jobs...because of police brutality...

You mean I can feel bad for people who lose their insurance or who have cancer? Thanks for letting me know! Lol  Feeling sympathy for one group of people does not exclude me from feeling sympathy for other groups. 

Decades of systematic change need to occur. It's a long road and yes, we know that there is no overnight solution. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,874]

6 minutes ago, Whispering said:

That explains so much. Could count the number of black people she ever saw in her whole life on two hands?! I can walk around my block and see more black people than that! Lol 

Different worlds, indeed! 

Wow, what smugness, what nastiness. You and @Dorothy Gale should be ashamed of yourselves for ganging up on me like this. You don't even have the grace to do it behind my back, but in public, in front of everyone else, presenting a negative view of me to anyone who hasn't followed the link to see the full story. You have completely taken what I said out of context and misinterpreted it. That post I made was one of the greatest I've ever made on this forum, destroying any false perception of me as a racist that has unfortunately been doing the rounds. My whole point in what I said was that even though I hadn't seen many black people and no one actually coached me about racial inequality and the right and wrong thing to say, I instinctively knew that racism was wrong. Because I'm a good person. It flies in the face of every theory that SJWs present about how white people don't understand anything they're unfamiliar with, that they're coached to be racist. My post proved that colour blindness was successful because despite rarely seeing black people growing up, I never viewed them as less than because I didn't see them as different to me. Because I took a colour blindness view. What part of this are you misinterpreting?

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

Just now, StrawberryBlond said:

 

I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you have a fixation with casting yourself as a victim in any thread where people dare to disagree with you. A lot of people on this site have told me that they don't even try to have a discussion because you end up demanding apologies or guilt-tripping people. @Whispering and I have nothing to apologize for, we simply disagree with you. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,874]

9 minutes ago, Dorothy Gale said:

Buying a black doll for a child is hardly that progressive, my sister had primarily black dolls because she simply preferred them, and it was never an issue in my family, even with my grandparents. Not talking about racial differences at all is not the solution, we are different, what's wrong with talking about it? 

You just equated liking rap to being a negative stereotype. We're not encouraging stereotypes, but the fact is that the median wealth of white families is twenty times that of black families, clearly colorblindness isn't going to solve wealth distribution issues that have persisted for generations. 

The fact that not a word was said about it and it was totally normalised speaks volumes, though, don't you think? SJWs have been saying that white children are known to question why someone isn't white and to see black dolls as ugly. Puts that notion out the window, right? There is no problem with talking about why we're different, but we don't have to frame it in a "You're oppressed, therefore, you're screwed" frame. It's no wonder so many minorities have a lack of confidence because they're being raised to believe that because society is wildly racist, they don't have a chance of achieving anything they want in life. As a feminist, I know how toxic this mindset can be and encourage women to not expect oppression everywhere they go and expect the best, demand the best. Telling any oppressed group that they're screwed from the get go will ensure they are trapped in that cycle forevermore.

Liking rap isn't a negative stereotype but it's still a stereotype and that's problematic. I know that I get offended when someone assumes I only like white artists and pop music just because I'm white, or any other stereotype about being white. And I'm not saying colour blindness will solve wealth distribution but it might help day-to-day social interactions and improve from there. And there's a big reason why so many black people in America remain poor and why anyone stays poor in general - not investing money and spending money immediately on things that don't matter. I live in one of the poorest areas in my country and it astounds me how people on the minimum wage can think buying designer clothes, the latest phone and going on multiple holidays a year is a good idea. That's why they can look rich but live in poverty because they're not putting it towards the stuff that really matters, like saving up for a deposit on a better house or even building up their savings in general. My family earn more than them and we wouldn't dream of spending as much as the poorer communities do on clothes, gadgets and constant holidays. The reason why people are poor can be so much more obvious when you really think about it. And by the way, the race with the highest household income is the US are Asian-Americans, with an average of $70,000, roughly $11,000 more than white Americans. So, explain why racism is cited as the only reason why minorities are poor?

8 minutes ago, Whispering said:

I don't know, maybe because Grandmas are still around that had to sit at the back of the bus, drink from a different water fountain or use different bathrooms...because the income level despite education gains is still the same as it was sixty years ago...because black and brown people are still being denied housing or jobs...

Really... I didn't know that. Lol You mean I can feel bad for people who lose their insurance or who have cancer? Thanks for letting me know!  Feeling sympathy for one group of people does not exclude me from feeling sympathy for other groups. 

Decades of systematic change need to occur. It's a long road and yes, we know that there is no overnight solution. 

That's a shame but again, that time is over. It's time to move on. It's funny, whenever Americans want to talk about how bad racism still is in the modern age, they bring up the past. Ironic, much?

I'm merely pointing out that even dominant groups can be worthy of sympathy in some situations. I don't believe in this "I only have sympathy for the most downtrodden of society" idea because it's just something people say to make themselves sound like an angel. It's so transparent.

But there needs to be a solution of some sort. And we have to start somewhere.

1 minute ago, Dorothy Gale said:

I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you have a fixation with casting yourself as a victim in any thread where people dare to disagree with you. A lot of people on this site have told me that they don't even try to have a discussion because you end up demanding apologies or guilt-tripping people. @Whispering and I have nothing to apologize for, we simply disagree with you. 

Oh, here we go with the victim talk again. I'm not painting myself as the victim if it's true. I don't exaggerate or invent victimhood, despite what some of you may think. It's just that the mere act of me defending myself when I'm attacked or feel offended as viewed as me playing the victim. What a narrow-minded viewpoint to have. I'm not mad because people 'dare' to disagree with me, they are entitled to their opinions, I'm just putting mine forward, just like them. It's just somehow a problem when I say it. If anything, they play the victim when I dare to disagree with them. And well, if anyone avoids discussing anything with me because they're afraid of repercussions...when have I ever shown myself to be a truly horrible person? I try to be nice to everyone, unless I feel like they've stepped out of line. I'm offended when people don't respect me when I've been nothing but respectful to them. Is that so bad? And I think you two do have something to apologise for - unnecessary rudeness. You both have a right to disagree with me but you do not have to do it in such a rude way. The worst part is, you don't even think you're being rude. It's moments like these that I wish I could talk to people here in person. Textual conversation never comes across right when I do it, it seems because in reality, people don't respond to my arguments this way.