Luc 4,776 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, Benji said: Best deal? Definitely. You'll notice in a decade or so. 25 minutes ago, Saint Laurent said: No she isn't, the majority who voted leave voted to leave all parts of the EU. She's following her mandate. Freedom of movement of persons is not as beneficial as a selective immigration policy would be. Not to mention freedom of movement of goods is an absolute shambles and she should never agree to such ridiculous policies. Nope. Most of them voted with no idea or the 'Norway option' or 'Switzerland option' in mind, both of which included single market access and freedom of movement. Had the Brexit camp, including selfish Boris Johnson, been honest to the British people and said what was going to happen after leaving, the Leave camp would've never won. The UK had a lot of power to block migration in the past, half of migrants came from outside the EU and could've been stopped, Eastern Europeans didn't get freedom of movement till 2008 but the UK was the only country to allow Eastern European workers two years earlier, Theresa May used to be Home Secretary and promised every year to get less (non-EU) migrants in the UK and failed every year, the UK was the greatest push for EU enlargement, Boris Johnson even promised Turkey to help them enter the EU after the referendum. This is what you get with the shitfest which is UK media and UK political culture. The EU has continuously taken the blame for all that went wrong for the past thirty years and the majority fell for it. Those who didn't, still believe most of those lies. The UK government is to 'blame' for increased migration, not the EU. I sincerely hope the UK fails. You'll get to join the EU again. In the meantime the EU will finally be able to reform itself. Afterwards, the UK will come back - but without exemptions! They will have to join Schengen and the Eurozone. Hurray for Scotland leaving the right-wing shitfest that is the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Luc said: Most of them voted with no idea or the 'Norway option' or 'Switzerland option' in mind, both of which included single market access and freedom of movement. Source? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Luc said: This is what you get with the shitfest which is UK media and UK political culture. The EU has continuously taken the blame for all that went wrong for the past thirty years and the majority fell for it. Those who didn't, still believe most of those lies. The UK government is to 'blame' for increased migration, not the EU. Sorry to double post, not sure how to split quotes anymore But I don't think this is exclusive to the UK. In Sweden we say that politicians go to the EU to pass legislation that will be unpopular with the elelectorate, then they can come back and say their hands were tied Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc 4,776 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 3 hours ago, bionic said: Sorry to double post, not sure how to split quotes anymore But I don't think this is exclusive to the UK. In Sweden we say that politicians go to the EU to pass legislation that will be unpopular with the elelectorate, then they can come back and say their hands were tied No country has press (mostly tabloids) as far to the right as the UK. I was following British news prior to the referendum and the amount of framing by the tabloids was incredible. There's three newspapers with a circulation of over a million in the UK and all three supported Brexit and led a propaganda campaign for a long time against the EU. If you need some examples, here's Juncker. Cameron used his contacts with UK tabloids to give Juncker a bad name to avoid him being elected. He got elected, but it shows the impact media can have, as to this day Juncker has a very negative image. The articles leading up to the referendum were about as bad and framing. https://www.thesun.co.uk/?s=juncker http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?offset=0&size=50&searchPhrase=juncker&sort=relevant https://www.google.nl/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/jean-claude-juncker-believes-aliens-8393024.amp 3 hours ago, bionic said: Source? What I'm saying is that had people known that it would've been a hard Brexit or a WTO-Brexit, they would've never gotten the majority of the votes. But yes, it was quite a common argument that the UK could somehow stay in the single market with no freedom of movement. That they could somehow get a better deal outside of the EU, as if EU leaders would let that happen. To this day there are Britons who believe the UK is more important for the EU than vice versa, and that the EU will be soft on the UK. Had Britons known beforehands that the 'leaving fee' was 60 billion euros, that the pound would fall tremendously, that products might get a 10% import tarive, and that signing deals with the UK might not be attractive at all, they would not have voted for Brexit in a majority. https://www.google.nl/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html%3Famp http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Laurent 4,862 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 23 hours ago, Luc said: Definitely. You'll notice in a decade or so. Nope. Most of them voted with no idea or the 'Norway option' or 'Switzerland option' in mind, both of which included single market access and freedom of movement. Had the Brexit camp, including selfish Boris Johnson, been honest to the British people and said what was going to happen after leaving, the Leave camp would've never won. The UK had a lot of power to block migration in the past, half of migrants came from outside the EU and could've been stopped, Eastern Europeans didn't get freedom of movement till 2008 but the UK was the only country to allow Eastern European workers two years earlier, Theresa May used to be Home Secretary and promised every year to get less (non-EU) migrants in the UK and failed every year, the UK was the greatest push for EU enlargement, Boris Johnson even promised Turkey to help them enter the EU after the referendum. This is what you get with the shitfest which is UK media and UK political culture. The EU has continuously taken the blame for all that went wrong for the past thirty years and the majority fell for it. Those who didn't, still believe most of those lies. The UK government is to 'blame' for increased migration, not the EU. I sincerely hope the UK fails. You'll get to join the EU again. In the meantime the EU will finally be able to reform itself. Afterwards, the UK will come back - but without exemptions! They will have to join Schengen and the Eurozone. Hurray for Scotland leaving the right-wing shitfest that is the UK. Literally nobody that voted leave wanted that, especially nobody that I know. Don't be so sure that they're leaving yet, Theresa May hasn't even agreed to a second referendum yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic 11,922 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Seeing Nicola desperately cling onto the coat tails of a flagging EU is really a sight to see. She's going to potentially risk the livelihood just to seize this opportunity. The EU won't make it an easy ride for Scotland at all but let's be real Scotland can't sustain itself anyway The hardest thing in this world is to live in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Laurent 4,862 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Dominic Marc said: Seeing Nicola desperately cling onto the coat tails of a flagging EU is really a sight to see. She's going to potentially risk the livelihood just to seize this opportunity. The EU won't make it an easy ride for Scotland at all but let's be real Scotland can't sustain itself anyway Not to mention Spain would definitely veto Scotland joining the EU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic 11,922 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Saint Laurent said: Not to mention Spain would definitely veto Scotland joining the EU. Exactly. They've already said Scotland would be 'at the back of the queue'. I've heard those words somewhere else before The hardest thing in this world is to live in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 44 minutes ago, Saint Laurent said: Literally nobody that voted leave wanted that, especially nobody that I know. Don't be so sure that they're leaving yet, Theresa May hasn't even agreed to a second referendum yet. Did you vote to leave? Curious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 26 minutes ago, Saint Laurent said: Not to mention Spain would definitely veto Scotland joining the EU. To clear things up... Spain said they would veto Scotland if they unilaterally declared independence (see: Kosovo). They said that if Scotland's independence was valid (i.e. approved by Westminster) then they would not veto it. Still, Spain will want to make Scottish independence difficult and likely go special lengths to slow down Scotland's EU accession as you and @Dominic Marc have stated several times throughout this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Laurent 4,862 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, bionic said: Did you vote to leave? Curious I did vote leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 Just now, Saint Laurent said: I did vote leave. Which of the 4 regions are you from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Laurent 4,862 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, bionic said: Which of the 4 regions are you from? I must take this opportunity to let you know that they are in fact countries and within each of the 4 countries there are numerous regions. I am from the North West of England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Saint Laurent said: I must take this opportunity to let you know that they are in fact countries and within each of the 4 countries there are numerous regions. I am from the North West of England. The UK's use of 'countries' is a historic thing. They could be called regions, provinces, zones, cantons, etc. They're all the defined administrative regions. EDIT: But calling them regions when they're called countries in the UK makes me seem like a pedantic **** so I will stop doing it. Sorry Liverpool? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Laurent 4,862 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, bionic said: The UK's use of 'countries' is a historic thing. They could be called regions, provinces, zones, cantons, etc. They're all the defined administrative regions. EDIT: But calling them regions when they're called countries in the UK makes me seem like a pedantic **** so I will stop doing it. Sorry Liverpool? You could say the same of the USA, but nevertheless, for all intents and purposes they are individual countries under one union. To refer to them otherwise would be like calling all 27 member states of the EU 'regions'. Yes I'm the black sheep in the family it seems as a large majority of my city voted to remain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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