Did Joanne Diminish Gaga's Artistic Integrity?

[HausOfMiklaus 1,803]

Just now, Rush said:

But the thing is, Cheek To Cheek wasn't a natural progression because just months before her "booty shorts and t-shirt era" she was serving DIVA. 

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about Perfect Illusion.  I was mostly thinking about the overall aesthetic of Joanne as a whole (if that makes sense?) and the genres she's now dabbling with: folk, country, Americana, etc. I can even interpret the dive bar, guitar girl persona as a reaction to the glamour and pomp – a reflective yearning for quieter moments and real human connection after the heights of that era. 

You bring up some good points though, but maybe it's just a subjective thing whether we can see her movement from era to era as authentic. Lord knows if the general public does. (But does it really matter from her own artistic standpoint? Maybe this is her own way of being unafraid, of being herself.)

[Drin Lon 7,875]

1 hour ago, boobtank said:

If Gaga did succumb to the criticism she's received, does that not make her artistic integrity seem questionable?

 

Well, you got it wrong though. Imo Joanne is one of the most rebellious and unexpected things Gaga has done. And it's the complete opposite of what you said tbh. Everyone, including her fans, expected Gaga to do dance music and to have extravagant visuals this era, but because Gaga is an artist with such an integrity, she didn't do what others expected  her to do just for the sake of it, she did what she felt she wanted to do as an artist, hence Joanne.

[Wolf 1,328]

In a way, it is kinda rebellious too. After C2C and her becoming more natural or "normal", everyone expected her to be her old self again. No one expected a country inspired album.

[Bebe 16,618]

To me it seems like a natural progression from C2C, which we know was planned since Born This Way.

In terms of performances, music videos and fashion I think Joanne (despite being my fave record musically) has been a little less interesting so far. I'm willing to accept that as part of the flow of her career though, I'm sure she is bound to continue to transform musically and visually as she moves forward.

I think it would have felt a little stagnant if she had continued with the outlandish looks and electropop sound. It would have started to feel like she was parodying herself, like she couldn't move forward artistically and like she was trying to continue to capitalize off past success.

I don't think this hurts her artistic integrity, I think it provides an opportunity for her to continue to change and transform.
 

[Panchecco 17,322]

That's what I keep asking myself...

If "Joanne" is supposed to be "the real Gaga" does this mean that the previous Gaga was manifactured? I've always believed that Gaga was being 100% herself all the times and that her "weird clothes" were just a way to reflect on the outside what she felt inside her on an emotional level. Now I feel she is forcing herself (and forcing us) to believe that she has always been very toned down and that in reality she is justaregulargirl.jpeg 

I agree with you because I do believe that this music is very mature and for some aspects her best music so far, but I also believe that this "Joanne/Gaga" persona is way more "manifactured" than Lady Gaga herself (?)

and I'm not saying that she is a fake b*tch or a liar I'm just saying that I feel that these past couple of years she realized that people were tired of the "over the top pop star persona" and she might have decided to show those people that she is "normal" like everyone else by talking about her pain and the past of her family (which is inspiring and a very brave thing to do) and by creating a new image of herself that can be seen by random people (maybe people that used to hate her) as very relatable (but we as her fans know that this new image is not very accurate)

In the end I just hope she's happy... no matter what music she does or what clothes she wears if she's happy I am happy as well and you all should be too

Spoiler

this doesn't mean I'll forgive or defend her laziness... MR music video was just visually boring and the production was lazy and you have to admit it (wheter you like the video or not)

 

[boobtank 9,090]

5 hours ago, Wolf said:

In a way, it is kinda rebellious too. After C2C and her becoming more natural or "normal", everyone expected her to be her old self again. No one expected a country inspired album.

 

I guess you could look at it this way also...

[giskardsb 12,565]

7 hours ago, boobtank said:

 Are artists supposed to adjust and change their work in accordance to the critics, or stick to their guns and continue creating, regardless of outside opinion?

 

artists are also allowed to change their own direction and explore different methods of artistic expression other than what most people might have gotten familiar with.

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

I believe this is a natural progression from C2C, which was planned back in 2012. So no! Next. 

[boobtank 9,090]

5 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

artists are also allowed to change their own direction and explore different methods of artistic expression other than what most people might have gotten familiar with.

 

This is very true, but when the direction is inspired by criticism, isn't that much more contrived than natural and more organic means of artistic progression/growth?

[giskardsb 12,565]

19 minutes ago, boobtank said:

This is very true, but when the direction is inspired by criticism, isn't that much more contrived than natural and more organic means of artistic progression/growth?

but there is no reason to believe that Gaga's change of direction was based on criticism.  This is mostly coming from fans that think she needed a reason other than artistic ones to go in the direction she did.  It's a fan mechanism trying to justify that Gaga is most "natural" as a pop star, when Joanne is in fact much closer to what she did pre-The Fame.

[MsSwan 1,379]

31 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

but there is no reason to believe that Gaga's change of direction was based on criticism.  This is mostly coming from fans that think she needed a reason other than artistic ones to go in the direction she did.  It's a fan mechanism trying to justify that Gaga is most "natural" as a pop star, when Joanne is in fact much closer to what she did pre-The Fame.

Really? No reason. Ahem, if I'm not mistaken there was an un-released music video of hers due out in 2013 that was cancelled because of the inevitable negative public opinion associated with it's collaborators. Yes, there was another music video in the spring of 2014, it's when that project failed, the direction changed. 

Edit:

Let us not forget about this:

[boobtank 9,090]

1 hour ago, giskardsb said:

but there is no reason to believe that Gaga's change of direction was based on criticism.  This is mostly coming from fans that think she needed a reason other than artistic ones to go in the direction she did.  It's a fan mechanism trying to justify that Gaga is most "natural" as a pop star, when Joanne is in fact much closer to what she did pre-The Fame.

 

Her commercial decline and the coincidental radical changes seen in her work is a reason to believe that Gaga's change of direction was rooted in the criticism of her work.

[giskardsb 12,565]

1 hour ago, boobtank said:

Her commercial decline and the coincidental radical changes seen in her work is a reason to believe that Gaga's change of direction was rooted in the criticism of her work.

if she was worried about commercial decline why would she move to a sound guaranteed to find difficulty getting on radio?  it's too "roots" for pop radio and not country enough for Country radio, and there is nowhere to play new brands of soft rock.  The easiest path would have been to grab RedOne and TFM2.0.  

If you want to argue about musical artistic Integrity, it's MUCH easier to argue that Gaga sold out when she moved away from the piano based rock of her early days and started making electronic pop.  When she mentioned early in the LG5 cycle that she was going back to her roots, the music from Joanne is much what I expected to get.  Many pop fans of course thought she was referencing The Fame.

As far as visuals etc go, then backing off some of that may be a reaction against people not seeing past that.   As an artist if you see that people are missing your core message because other aspects of your work are masking it, you are freely in your rights to do what you feel as an artist is necessary to make your message more obvious.  In Gaga's case her core being is one of musical and vocal capability and integrity, so she chose to make that the central core of the Joanne Era.  Many pop fans however consider her visuals to be her core artistic statement, and thats why we end up having these types of discussions.   You could argue that stripping back the visuals and concentrating on voice and music shows more artistic integrity towards her core artistic values, not less.

It's also within  her rights as an artist to think about where her career is going and what she wants to accomplish in the future.  Joanne can be both an artistic statement of how she feels now as well as an audition of sorts to show the breadth of her capability.   She is also perfectly capable of deciding who she wants her audience to be.  The big problem  is that many pop fans have decided that since Gaga became known in a certain way, then that version of her is her true authentic artistic self; and all other versions are imposters.