Maturity

[MonsterMum 2,532]

What you are doing is projecting your hopes and expectations onto her by latching onto nostalgia. It worked years ago so just copy paste and she's good to go.

When that doesn't happen you (people not you personally) get nasty and in disbelieve "why doesn't she just x,y,z" not realising that they only mad because she is not meeting THEIR expections. It's like the hopelesness of the situation (because you can't control it nor her) that make people lash out and get meltdown after meltdown because it's THEM that cannot adapt and get used to the fact that she is changing era after era. 

So for your own sanity I suggest you box your memories about every era she has done so far and take a look at Joanne and what it's bringing to you in it's own seperate way, not always going back to "but then' "but back when". Don't compare just go in with an open mind. 

Cut it off and see what you are getting now and if you like that. If you do, that's great but if you don't because, you don't like that type of music or the aesthetics don't give you enough then just let it be. There is no right or wrong when it comes to enjoying your style of music. But whatever has happened is in the past now and it will never come back that's one thing we all can be sure about.

[dannydevito 10,658]

1 hour ago, Karandr said:

This is an opportunity for Gaga to grow.

GIVE ME A FVCKING BREAK, yall are so disrespectful toward gaga and call it an opportuinity for her to grow?!?! she's fvcking growing with every step in her career whether yall think its "messy" or "lazy" or not, and thank god she doesn't listen to LMs waiting for her to rule the world again and become the artist with the most 1s in the history of music, i'm soo sooo glad she pays more attention to HER vision of her career and her art than YOURS, who do you all think you are? the most prominent and talented fortunetellers in the world?

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 hour ago, Karandr said:

The recent and numerous conflicts surrounding the Million Reasons video have exposed a lot of issues within the fanbase which point to a stark division between those who seek to nurture and support Gaga in all her ventures, and those who want to push her to achieve more. 

Falling myself in the latter camp, I've been accused of spreading negativity and wasting my breath, with the insinuation that anyone who critiques Gaga's work isn't a true fan. I argue the contrary: that the most avid fans of an artist's work will acknowledge the low points alongside celebrating the highs. To truly know the breadth of an artist's work is to recognise that not every album, song and video will hit the mark. We're in a forum dedicated to discussing the work and career of Gaga - if that conversation is unilaterally positive, it's not really a conversation. 

The issue that I think has become most apparent is one of maturity. The fanbase itself, bordering on ten years strong, is entering into its adolescence and adulthood. The initial buzz over Lady Gaga as a cultural phenomenon is largely decreased (when compared to the TFM / BTW imperial era) and what remains is arguably the core group of fans. 

Pretending that people who express opinions contrary to "spread love with every invention" / "no negativity on this site thank u" are not true fans is asinine. Smearing the entire portion of the fanbase who didn't like the video as abusive, hateful and not supportive is not only inaccurate, but unfair. Maybe because so much of this fanbase is young, but also perhaps because they've swallowed her two-to-three word mantras and manners of speaking without understanding the nuances of debate and discussion. While we're on the topic - I condemn any comments which do directly abuse Gaga on a personal level, but these seem to be in the small, small minority. 

Gaga, as an artist, is also entering a stage of more maturity. Her recent endeavours in jazz and acting, as well as her more toned down/classically elegant appearance over the last year or two point to an artist seeking to broaden her horizons and be taken more seriously and legitimately in the broader community. I applaud Gaga for this, and I think she is unique in the modern landscape for her spread across several platforms of entertainment. 

What comes with that, though, is opening yourself to more thorough critique. We should encourage and celebrate Gaga when she tries new things, but we should also be free to voice opinions when her work doesn't live up to expectations which have been set by a career dominated by large, spectacular events. Regarding the video, my personal gripes (so I'm not accused of being nonspecific or vague) are the reuse of existing footage - which she has never done before, and make the video feel like an afterthought, and the very limited and claustrophobic scope of the video. It's not a problem that it's simple, but it feels small and low budget. Not every video has to be a Judas or G.U.Y level spectacular, but every other Gaga video draws you into its world, the particular flavour and feeling of the song. MR lacks a cohesive feeling and aesthetic, there isn't really one iconic visual that comes to mind – like the Coke can hair roller, the flame thrower bra, the smudged paint makeup, or even the purple colour scheme of The Edge of Glory (a video which is also simple, but still presents a clear vision in a compact package). 

I don't know what all of this means for the future of this fanbase or for Gaga's career and creative endeavours. I do think, though, that it all comes down to what Gaga does in the coming months. If she chooses to only listen to the positive feedback, the sycophantic twitter monsters thirsty for a retweet, then I would be extremely disappointed. This is an opportunity for Gaga to grow. When you have a misstep (because, whatever you think of the video itself, the fact that it has provoked such a reaction in the fanbase seems to indicate that something is amiss), it's an opportunity to learn. 

I hope that we see a return to the calibre of work that we all fell in love with Gaga for. I encourage her to produce work that is different, challenging and unexpected. I love it when I see or hear something from Gaga that I never would have thought I'd see. But I want her to put her all into it. I want to be excited again. That's not an unrealistic request for an artist whose trademark is her ability to impress and surprise with quality and creativity. 

I just want to point out to you and everyone else reading this that the era that brought me closer to Gaga, and the era to really involved myself with Gaga was the ARTPOP era. Yeah, the Fame was great. I actually hated Bad Romance and Telephone when it first came out. Born This Way was okay. But ARTPOP was the era which I really placed my stan card down for Gaga and the era where I followed her more closely. So your earlier point about "The initial buzz over Lady Gaga as a cultural phenomenon is largely decreased (when compared to the TFM / BTW imperial era) and what remains is arguably the core group of fans."  is absolutely flawed. Not all monsters here are from TF/TFM or BTW eras, but rather some (like myself) are much later. There is still quite a buzz in the air when someone mentions Lady Gaga. The GP are starting to recognise her as a really strong vocalist. Everyone in my college group knows I support Gaga, and even a few have commented how good Joanne is (one watched the whole VSFS performance only to see Gaga perform). I don't know any monsters who live near me, but I'm sure if you were to say to them "Monsters, Gaga is performing at the Principality Stadium next week!" They will go nuts. I get hyped when ever Gaga performs or does things like drop MV or more songs. So there IS STILL a buzz about Gaga.

Your point about the Million Reasons music video, and I'm getting so so tired of saying this to people like you. The whole point of that video was to take a look deeper into Gaga's life, what she did, how she dealt with heartbreak (continuation of P.I) and her everyday schedule. On the day of the Apple commercial (where you people think she reused scenes) she obviously decided to shoot the MR MV scenes as she already had the backdrop and that was something that was real and happening at that point in time. The storyline of the video is very real. Its real life. Thats why it was shot similar to the Apple commercial, but not the same. A thread a few days ago suggested that the theme in the video is suicide, which Gaga actually faced. That is a very deep meaning of the video, and might make some of you understand it better. But reading your post, I'm curious to believe you do.

My FINAL point is what bugs me the most. You speak about maturity, yet you and some fans don't show any. Maturity means a lot of things. If you have matured then you are willing to accept change in a person in how they have grown up. You should know that as a person gets older, their style changes, they mature and see things in a different light. Gaga has very much matured infront of our eyes. The same singer who did 'Viva La Vida' on BBC R1 Live Lounge in 2008/9 could not have done the Oscars in 2015 as amazing as she did if she didnt mature. The problem is, the star has matured but the fans have not. You and many fans on here are stuck in the past, some believe that in 2016/17 she should go back to the likes of the BTW era cause 'everything was better'. Your point about not as much buzz comes about because you and some fans believe that she will never beat or get close to BTW era commercially. Maybe if you paid attention to her you'll see why ARTPOP really happened and the message she gave. Or maybe you should watch her Emotion Reveloution speech where she speaks about how BTW was one of her darkest times as she was really unhappy and felt like a money making machine to the point where she didnt even know who she was anymore. Also Gaga changes with every era (just incase you didnt know) so maturity in the fans would be accepting the new era. If you have followed Gaga from the start, then you have really grown up with her. So start showing it! You can dislike something, you are human. But this is a Gaga fourum. Its not meant for dragging her. I honestly think that if you are really unhappy with the way Gaga is this era then you should leave and comeback when you feel ready. Stan someone else, I dont care who. But what is the point if you are unhappy? I believe the Joanne era will be her best yet and cannot wait for the Halftime Show performance, and I do not care if it is a success on the charts. If my ears like it, then to me its a success. 

 

Show some MATURITY and grow up. Stop living in the past and if you are so unhappy then you may as well leave.

Thank you

[Edonis 28,950]

The nasty replies so many people had to a relatively thoughtful and polite OP 

I, just, can't. 

[SlaeUrAnus 15,955]

11 minutes ago, Edonis said:

The nasty replies so many people had to a relatively thoughtful and polite OP 

I, just, can't. 

I'm shaking my head.

This member gave the time to constructively discuss about recent events surrounding the Million Reasons MV, and not once did he put down Gaga or speak ill of her. 

I am truly disgusted. Not just at the fans who brand Gaga lousy terms (that is another story), but at those who drag others for absolutely no reason at all. If the OP was disrespecting Gaga then fine, but all he/she was doing was providing their own honest and, like you said, thoughtful opinions to the forum to be discussed in a civilised manner.

I am appalled, truly 

[Katie14 4,828]

1 hour ago, MonsterMum said:

What you are doing is projecting your hopes and expectations onto her by latching onto nostalgia. It worked years ago so just copy paste and she's good to go.

When that doesn't happen you (people not you personally) get nasty and in disbelieve "why doesn't she just x,y,z" not realising that they only mad because she is not meeting THEIR expections. It's like the hopelesness of the situation (because you can't control it nor her) that make people lash out and get meltdown after meltdown because it's THEM that cannot adapt and get used to the fact that she is changing era after era. 

So for your own sanity I suggest you box your memories about every era she has done so far and take a look at Joanne and what it's bringing to you in it's own seperate way, not always going back to "but then' "but back when". Don't compare just go in with an open mind. 

Cut it off and see what you are getting now and if you like that. If you do, that's great but if you don't because, you don't like that type of music or the aesthetics don't give you enough then just let it be. There is no right or wrong when it comes to enjoying your style of music. But whatever has happened is in the past now and it will never come back that's one thing we all can be sure about.

But I don't think most fans on here are upset because Gaga is changing. I love all her changes because it makes following her career more interesting. The pretty clear decline in quality and creativity in her videos and performances is what's bothersome.  But if Gaga is happy with this output and if this is the type of work she wants to create, thats fine. She doesn't owe any of us the standard of creativity that she used to display. She can do whatever she wants, but we still have the right to discuss how we feel about the art she delivers to us, provided we are respectful. Unfortunately,  a lot of fans on here have not been respectful and I wish that would change. 

To me, her music is the best its ever been, however, so I really don't have that much to complain about. I am enjoying this era for the most part. 

[Blueskye 1,087]

2 hours ago, M Monstre said:

There's a difference between being critical and constructive, and just being rude, it's plain and simple. 

This to a T. 

For me it's not a case of "oh you don't like this therefore you're not a real fan." It's the way it's put across, not constructive, not insightful critique, just rude and hateful and the sheer volume of it, it's like DrowningInHateDaily! 

[Katie14 4,828]

50 minutes ago, SlaeUrAnus said:

I'm shaking my head.

This member gave the time to constructively discuss about recent events surrounding the Million Reasons MV, and not once did he put down Gaga or speak ill of her. 

I am truly disgusted. Not just at the fans who brand Gaga lousy terms (that is another story), but at those who drag others for absolutely no reason at all. If the OP was disrespecting Gaga then fine, but all he/she was doing was providing their own honest and, like you said, thoughtful opinions to the forum to be discussed in a civilised manner.

I am appalled, truly 

This. I don't understand why people are saying the op is being rude. The op is well written and respectful 

[ooo 407]

3 hours ago, A Gaga Lad said:

just when i needed to like a well thought out post, I have hit my limit

same here! props to you OP, you said everything i wanted to say. 

[Katie14 4,828]

2 hours ago, PennyroyalTea said:

As people have already told, there is a difference between constructive criticism and turning to personal insults to Gaga. You could compare that to that kind of feedback that you would want to get for example from an essay you've written? Let's think it's not your best one according to the professors... You could get feedback that presents the good stuff in it but also tells things that could be helpful and improved in the future, with constructive criticism. Or you could get feedback that attacks you personally claiming you are "lazy, lost your touch, basic, no creativy left anymore" etc. I've seen here?

What I feel while reading your post your points were constructive in my opinion. I'm sure you also see the difference between the insults and your posts...

And people, it's just one video, don't take it as the end of the world...

I don't think everyone is melting down just because of the video. I think the video is a weak point that gives everyone an excuse to criticize this evolution in Gaga that has been going on for years.  

[Karandr 150]

Yikes. I'm not even gonna bother responding to the personal attacks I've received in this thread aside from to say that I'm deeply embarrassed for you. 

** edit: Special shoutout to ShockPop for assuming everything under the sun about my personality, as well as making sweeping generalisations about anyone young. If you have to resort to things like that instead of making a measured and well-developed point, you might not be as mature (in character, at least) as you'd like to think  **

The eternal positivity monsters sure have a nasty side. Maybe if you took the time to actually read what I wrote, you'd be able to construct an actual reply. 

Pathetic. 

[SilkSpectre0 547]

8 hours ago, PennyroyalTea said:

As people have already told, there is a difference between constructive criticism and turning to personal insults to Gaga. You could compare that to that kind of feedback that you would want to get for example from an essay you've written? Let's think it's not your best one according to the professors... You could get feedback that presents the good stuff in it but also tells things that could be helpful and improved in the future, with constructive criticism. Or you could get feedback that attacks you personally claiming you are "lazy, lost your touch, basic, no creativy left anymore" etc. I've seen here?

What I feel while reading your post your points were constructive in my opinion. I'm sure you also see the difference between the insults and your posts...

And people, it's just one video, don't take it as the end of the world...

I saw someone on here the other day say they were like a mother who wants the best for their child. As if you'd push your child by telling them they're lazy and have zero creativity' and think that's okay.

[GagaTheExplorer 3,053]

14 hours ago, PaperIz said:

This isn't about Taylor. This is about Gaga's "fans" attacking her every move  

but your comment was about searching for excuses to hate someone so...

[PaperIz 7,346]

30 minutes ago, GagaTheExplorer said:

but your comment was about searching for excuses to hate someone so...

There's a difference in pop stars hating each other than there is in us hating on gaga so openly. She deserves more than that.

[Noelle 207]

Okay so I just posted this in a thread in the news section but think it suits better here and Ill edit it a little: 

Ive been here on GGD for about 8 years now and Im usually lurking and not posting much (except during the BTW snippets leaking era) and Im turning 24 tomorrow. I just realized because of all that age shat that I really have grown with Gaga and got to understand her more and more. Anyway what I want to say is that the negativity on this era is really sad and it needs to stop. For anyone who has grown with her, look at her with different eyes. Be more respectful. Understand her change. I am not a big fan of the MR video, but I really appreciate her trying to get her vulnerability across as a person, if that succeeded or failed depends, and I think we should all have a little more respect for that, instead of bashing her for being cringeworthy. Focus more on your positive feelings, less on the negative. We have gone through a lot of meltdowns on this website and I've witnessed many of them. Although it sometimes went waaay too far at the time, it somehow fit the era's. The whole vibe of Born This Way sparked controversial talk and thats exactly what happened on GGD at the time. But. We've grown up. Gaga has. She does her own thing. She's gone through a jazz phase where she seemed very genuinely happy. And now she has a more peaceful phase as well. Don't go kicking her in the face for that. Its really not the point of this era.

As we all know Gaga is very diverse, in her music and in her personality. Therefore it is evident that not every fan will like every performance she does. But just have some respect, sit it out, sit down, chill and wait for the next one and see where she's going. Place it in the bigger picture. Enjoy the ride.