Beyonce' exposedT again

[Borislshere 53,079]

6 minutes ago, Acsnpdx8 said:

When a pop song can be played and sung BY THE ARTIST with one instrument (piano, guitar...), that is true excellence to me. Waiting on Bey...

 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

Queen of compilations 

Queen of payola 

Queen of Diet Lemonade 

Queen of acclaim 

[Matangi 3,050]

its pathetic how insecure some of yall are about beyonces success and brilliant album

[Bebe 17,093]

5 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Because she's an actress, her one and only job is to act. But a singer can mean two things - someone who purely sings or someone who sings, writes and produces. The latter is called a singer/songwriter or an artist for a reason. Singers sing, artists create. Actors memorise some lines and speak them believably, an artist creates various concepts through music, film, paints, sculpture, etc. Acting and singing are two completely different mediums, they're incomparable. The same even with directing. You just can't compare them to a singer. Everyone knows this, which is why I've never seen anyone compare them, actually, until Beyonce's recent popularity that made certain people come up with this concept to give her more credibility.

And Beyonce created. I really don't think you have understood my comparison at all. Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel with 13 other artists, a Director can have a crew of over 2000+ people with a lot of talented, creative people giving their input.

I'm talking as somebody who studies Screen Production, as somebody who has worked on film sets. I'm comparing the two mediums because I know how integral collaboration is to every creative pursuit. Many great artists have had a team of extremely talented people behind them giving their creative input. 

A Director could feasibly write, produce, direct and star in their own movie - but the result would probably be work that lacks the depth and perspective that it would have if the Director actually collaborated. There are people in other creative fields that do a lot less and get a lot more credit  

We don't look at a director like Alfred Hitchcock and go "Whatever! Psycho was written by Joseph Stefano and  Robert Bloch!  Bernard Herrmann was the one who created the iconic score! His film was edited by George Tomasini, recognised for his  innovative film editing that was 'stylish and experimental'. He also helped set the pace for the iconic shower scene!"

As the main creator, and as the man who was able to curate the talents and ideas of all of these very talented people, Alfred Hitchcock is given due credit for being the mastermind behind Psycho. Hitchcock is seen as one of the greatest Directors who has ever lived.

Now Kubrick was a film director, screenwriter, producer, cinematographer and editor. He helped to write his films and was very hands on in his approach to filmmaking. His process was different to that of Hitchcock's but just as valid - he also created cinematic masterpieces. Kubrick obviously also had to collaborate with a team of people, but like Hitchcock he was the main creator and the brain behind the operations. People worked towards Kubrick and Hitchcock's vision.

You don't seem to like the comparison, but you don't really properly explain why? If you don't like the acting example then fine - but Directors are considered artists, they are considered creators. They work with a team of creative people. You just shove in "same with directors".

Beyonce created Lemonade. She directed a lot of talented people, but she is clearly and undeniably the main creator - she was the executive producer, she appears in every single song as a writer and producer. Her collaborators talk about how involved she was. She had a strong vision, she had concept and she was able to curate, collage and direct a team of people to deliver that concept.

Who exactly would you give credit to for Lemonade? Why shouldn't we think of Beyonce's creative process similarly to that of the creative process of a Director who also curates the talents and contributions of a team of talented people? Why shouldn't we compare it to an artist like Koons who has a team of people creating his sculptures? 

In every creative field we can find examples of artists collaborating with teams of talented creative people in order to execute a vision.

It seems bizarre to say that Beyonce should not be called an artist when she was the main creator and brain behind one of the most creative, acclaimed and successful albums of the year. 

[Thomas P 18,479]

3 hours ago, Haus Allorah said:

im not even gonna get into cuz this thread is already 7 pages long, and another opinion i feel is just not necessary so ima just be over here listening to lemonade in the corner with the rest of the GGD beyhive 

 

 

*insert BITCH me too the **** gif

[imwoahvicky 4,248]

14 hours ago, Kim Kardashian said:

Such a personal album though.

exposing snakes on the daily  

[Zazekina 785]

She is the Queen of samples tbh... Since the first single of her solo career, until now, I don't think that will change soon, lol.

[Bebe 17,093]

4 hours ago, Acsnpdx8 said:

You're basically saying, "Congrats on being so inspired by other artists' work that you sampled them and EVEN credited them on the album! Such a masterpiece"

"Joanne" contains inspiration from other artists and genres but does not sample anything that they themselves didn't make in the studio. THAT, is what takes great talent...

No that's not  even close to what I'm saying  It's so far off base that I don't even know where to start  

What I'm saying is that it takes enormous vision and talent to be able to curate a team of creative people and create a cohesive piece of work. This sort of collaboration is something that's done in every creative field, even by artists who are considered icons and geniuses.

Beyonce was executive producer of the album. She was undoubtedly the main creator and utilised the talents of an incredible team in order to create this acclaimed album. It takes talent and enormous vision to be able to collage together the ideas and sounds of multiple collaborators and make something different and cohesive.

Her process is similar to that of a Directors. Alejandro González Iñárritu is seen as one of the most intellectual and powerful film directors today. He is considered a genius and I think that's well deserved. In saying that, Emmanuel Lubezki is his Cinematographer. His cinematography is incredible, beautiful. He is known for groundbreaking uses of natural lighting and continuous uninterrupted shots. His contributions to films like Birdman and The Revenant are undeniably important. He worked with Mark L. Smith on the Screenplay for The Revenant which was based on the novel by Michael Punke. No doubt the story is an integral creative component of the Oscar winning film. He worked with Ryuichi Sakamoto on the Soundtrack, that man is brilliant and has been in the music industry since the 1970's creating and composing acclaimed works. Randy Thom, the Director of Sound Design at Skywalker Sound, the Holy Grail of film sound, was brought on as a supervising sound designer and re-recording mixer. Randy has worked on some of the finest films created over the last several decades. The Revenant was praised for it's sound design and how it was able to achieve a sort of dance between the sound design, the dialog and the score.

I could go on about  Alejandro Iñárritu, but I hope you get the point. One of the finest directors of our time collaborated with the most talented team of people he could get in order to help create films like Birdman and The Revenant. This team of people made significant creative contributions to the film and Iñárritu oversaw, curated and collaged their ideas to create a critically acclaimed and commercially successful film. Nobody in their right minds would dismiss Alejandro Iñárritu or claim he is uncreative. He has the vision and talent to collaborate with and curate the ideas of a very talented team of people.

As executive producer, Beyonce worked with a team of incredibly talented people. She collaged their ideas, she directed them, she curated their work, she remixed the songs, she was involved in the writing and production process. At the end of it all Lemonade was critically acclaimed and commercially successful and she was the main creator.


You have a narrow concept of talent. Is it not a talent to be able to have the vision to curate the work of a team of creative people? To mix together different instrumentals, themes, lyrics, samples, melodies into one cohesive piece of work? Is it not impressive that you can create something completely different from a sample? What's the difference between Gaga writing over a complete electronic track by Zedd and Beyonce writing over a sample?

You don't have any idea about how much vision it takes to direct a team of people and collage their ideas into one cohesive, acclaimed and commercially viable piece of work. 

[Bebe 17,093]

6 hours ago, JoanneT said:

It's like that time everyone thought Lemonade was so deep yet the writer of, "Sorry", Diana Gordon said the "Becky with the good hair" was something completely unrelated and dumb.

"The idea started in my mind, but it’s not mine anymore [...] I laughed, like this is so silly. Where are we living? I was like, 'What day in age from that lyric do you get all of this information? Is it really telling you all that much, accusing people?'"

She said the same about Daddy Lessons (which she wrote) :

"With Beyoncé, I feel like the songs we worked on were specifically for her. I didn’t have a dad growing up, so 'Daddy Lessons,' that was more of a fantasy for me. I felt like I was very strong in helping to raise my brothers and sisters, but that really was her story."

Lemonade is nothing short of amazing, nor conceptually innovative. Why is it getting all that praise ? People believe every good marketing strategy I guess. 

I don't understand how you think any of this discredits Beyonce or makes her seem less creative

Diana Gordon said that Becky with the good hair was not about any particular woman when she wrote the lyric.... So? I mean firstly, I don't the creative worth or the question of whether Lemonade achieved its ambitious creative goals rests upon that one line, but it just doesn't seem to mean anything. It applies to the life of executive producer Beyonce who took that lyric and inserted it into her song. If there is anything that can be said about the line it's that, along with the context of the greater theme and story of the work as a whole,  it provoked quite a reaction from a lot of people. The theme and story of the work as a whole added new context to that line that wasn't intended by the author, that's of course reflective of Beyonce who created the album like a patchwork quilt, as a combination of lyrics, melodies, samples, beats, themes etc. When combined these separate elements told a story. Whether or not that line was intended by Beyonce or Dianna to provoke anyone seems ultimately irrelevant though.

We are aware she had a team of people writing and producing tracks for her? We all know this... You just posted a quote that shows Dianna Gordon went into the project and worked on songs for Beyonce who directed the theme of the song. Daddy Lessons didn't apply to her life, she wrote it specifically for Beyonce to work towards Beyonce's vision  Beyonce had a vision, she had an idea for a song and she hired some talented songwriters and utilised those talents to help bring this vision to life.

Interestingly Daddy Lessons is the song where Beyonce is credited the least, she clearly still directed the theme and tone of the song - she communicated her vision to the writers. But it's not like the other songs from Lemonade, where we know she would ask for songs to be mixed together. She would take a lyrical sketch and turn it into a hook and take the pre-chorus from another song and turn it into the chorus. She would add a sample to the production and ask for the lyrics from the verses of another song to be re-written to match the theme of this song. That's what collaborators like Sia and Jack White have said. 

MikeWiLLMadeIt said she wrote the lyrics to basically all of Formation. 

Jonny Coffer who co-wrote and co-produced Freedom said "Beyoncé is really involved at all stages, she runs the show and will say what she likes and doesn't like and is always making suggestions. She knows exactly how she wants it to sound and how to get there."

Rapper-producer MeLo-X, who had a hand in writing "Hold Up," produced "Sorry," and scored the album's accompanying film said "She has a way of creating that I've never seen before as an artist, she produces, alters and arranges tracks in ways I wouldn't think of."

MNEK who contributed to songs like 'Hold Up' says that when he met Beyoncé, she already had the idea for each song to correspond to a different title card in the film, featuring words like "Intuition" or "Redemption." "She told me, 'This is the direction I want the lyrics to go, but the great thing about her team was that they were just like, 'We asked you to be a part of this because we like what you do, so just do your thing.' I did a few verse things, and she heard one bit, that middle eight, and loved it."

With each collaborator we get a clear story, that not only did Beyonce contribute to writing and producing the album herself, but she oversaw everything her collaborators did,  gave clear direction over what she wanted, had a greater vision in mind and was able to curate the ideas and talents of her team and piece them together to create a cohesive piece of work.

In the end what was just a lyrical sketch, a sample, a melody, a theme, a beat, an instrumental, a pre-chorus turns into a complete song. All these ideas merged together by Beyonce, the executive producer.  The album was created by Beyonce, a team of people working towards her vision and by Beyonce curating their work, directing them and mixing their ideas together to satisfy her greater vision.

That's ****'s impressive  

We can't expect artists to be superhumans who are the best songwriters, best producers, the best lyricists, the best instrumentalists who can adapt to every genre and are masters at every aspect of the album creation process. Lemonade encompasses a variety of genres including pop, reggae, blues, rock, hip-hop, soul, funk, Americana, country, gospel, electronic and trap. I can't think of anyone who could create such a cohesive, yet diverse piece of work by themselves. If you want to create an album that's so ambitious then you need to collaborate with a wide range of writers and producers who specialise in certain genres and you need to be able to direct this team in order to make sure the result is cohesive.

Beyonce is a brilliant director and executive producer who is able to conceptualise a vision for her work, knows where her talents lie and is able to direct and curate the work of a team of talented musicians in order to create a piece of work that is diverse, critically acclaimed and commercially viable. 

The samples and amount of writers are not something that should be used to drag Beyonce, the size of her team is a reflection of how ambitious the project was. It's a reflection of how wide the musical scope of this album is and how it encompasses so many genres, ideas and themes with such expertise. The acclaim the work has received is a result of the depth of the work, not just thematically but also musically and visually, and how cohesive the work is despite the wide range of influences and collaborators. Such cohesiveness is the result of the executive producer Beyonce, who effectively directed her team and curated their work to serve her grand vision for the project.

There are not many artists who can achieve what Beyonce did with Lemonade, if they could then they would. Lemonade is a great artistic achievement on the part of Beyonce and anybody who is ready to drag her for directing a team of talented writers and producers have no idea about the value of collaboration or the musical talent it takes to executive produce such an ambitious project.

[TopDomBoy 1,182]

I prefer Gagas hard work all over the studio, creating and crafting your very own piece of art instead all that critical acclaim and sales tbh. 

[Dayum 240]

15 hours ago, Bebe said:

People about to start acting sassy as if it's easy or uncreative to be able to sample and collage songs from the early 60's to the late 00's and work with a long list of talented collaborators in order to create one cohesive piece of work.

Collaboration is the cornerstone of innovation and creativity. If anything I wish an artist like Gaga would collaborate more - not because I think she is an untalented writer/producer but because more minds and more talent no doubt produce a body of work with more depth, better sound and that draws from more varied experience than one person alone could ever bring to the table.

It’s undeniable that Beyoncé had her hand on the controls for the creation of every piece of this album. Beyoncé is a credited writer on every single song. She is also a credited producer on every track but one. She touched everything. She tweaked the lyrics. She remixed the vocals. She made decisions big and small and perfected her art until it was ready for public consumption.

Congratulations to Beyonce for being able to curate the ideas of so many incredible writes/producers. Congratulations to her for being able to direct such an ambitious project. 

That takes great talent  

This this this. So much of this. I wish Gaga can see this and open her mind that it is not a weakness to ask for another's view.

[Omar Vela 2,744]

[Omar Vela 2,744]

Beyonce it's a good singer and dancer, that's all. People who thinks she is creative or that she works hard in creating her music are being dumb.

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

2009:

 

2016: 

 

OT: I am not saying that Beyonce it not talented. She is supremely talented. She is a kickass vocalist, dancer and performer. She is a legend and I love her. But i don't think she is "as" creative as she can be. She lets her "middlemen" do what they have/want to do. But I just want BEYONCE and ONLY BEYONCE to shine through. I want the girl underneath the aura.

[Anthagio 113]

this is kind of what happens when your music is a creation of a factory of people as opposed to coming from your heart. it's a joke that this album is considered "her most personal" when not a single beat, melody, or lyric came from her.

lol at people saying that because she has credits it means she did anything. this is a woman who was credited of a cover of a amy winehouse song she sang. this is the woman who gets credit for walking into the room. everyone knows she doesn't create her music or write or lyrics. she's a singer, not an artist. and she's a great singer so she should stick to that.