Ohio bans abortion after 1 month and a half

[PartySick 174,241]

2 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

Please reread the underlined and bolded lines in my post. People have already enlightened me on the subject so any further replies are simply redundant.

Part of my response was just generally speaking, not directly responding to your post(s)

 

3 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

But to touch on the argument of "their body their choice", my only issue is this opens up the prospect of the right to suicide. 

What's the issue there?  I'm a believer that if someone feels strongly enough that they don't want to live anymore, it's their life to end. That choice is especially justified when terminal illnesses and such are thrown into the mix.

However, just like other options are considered before abortion is chosen, there's always the choice to improve your quality of life rather than ending it. Both are devastating decisions to make but that's just life for you, I guess.

6 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

Again people, I AGREE with abortion. NOT against it, and will 100% defend women's rights. My only issue is ending a life (that is after the 24th week as users have already mentioned). I don't see how people promote animal rights, human rights (sans babies), yet somehow abortion (after the 24th week) is justified, as once again for the millionth time, someone had told me that being against one kind of abortion means being anti-abortion completely, which is clearly wrong.

Good! That's all that matters in the end.

Being hung up on peoples' hypocrisy will drive you mad. It's practically a human virtue to be a hypocrite. Imo, it's justified because of the point I made earlier.

The woman's rights > the fetus' rights

That's what it all boils down to I guess

[PaperIz 7,354]

7 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I find this so stupid. Like, if the mother dies the child will also die. You basically save one life and lose one or lose both, there is no other option in those awful situations

 

That's what's ironic about this though. These same people that are so against abortion are also against the very things that saw abortion rates fall drastically in the last few decades. Contraception, sex education, as well as Planned Parenthood that offers both of those services and more.

It's ludicrous. They raised their kids to be tight lipped about sex and told them the only way is to wait until you're married. That's exactly why their teenage pregnancy, STD, and abortion rates were so much higher than our generation's

And one more thing, someone tell them that outlawing abortion doesn't stop abortions from happening. It just stops safe abortions.

Well like I said, I am pro-choice. And I am also 100% for educating people about safe sex and so on. I understand both sides. I just think that if you can have the kid, you really should. They deserve a chance at life. But I understand sometimes it's just not in the cards and it should definitely be a safe viable option to get an abortion. 

9 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

Pregnancy from rape is possible, so it wouldn't be the woman's choice.

And I'm completely okay with that. Rape, incest, dangerous pregnancies should definitely be cases for abortions. I do not think a woman should be forced to carry a child born from those conditions. But if you choose to have sex and know the risks, you've made your choice to have a baby. The baby's life shouldn't be thrown away because of a mistake. But again I do understand sometimes it isn't viable so I am pro-choice, but I really hope they chose life.

[PaperIz 7,354]

5 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Part of my response was just generally speaking, not directly responding to your post(s)

 

What's the issue there?  I'm a believer that if someone feels strongly enough that they don't want to live anymore, it's their life to end. That choice is especially justified when terminal illnesses and such are thrown into the mix.

However, just like other options are considered before abortion is chosen, there's always the choice to improve your quality of life rather than ending it. Both are devastating decisions to make but that's just life for you, I guess.

Good! That's all that matters in the end.

Being hung up on peoples' hypocrisy will drive you mad. It's practically a human virtue to be a hypocrite. Imo, it's justified because of the point I made earlier.

The woman's rights > the fetus' rights

That's what it all boils down to I guess

That last part gets me though. Why does the fetus not have a right to life? Like I said earlier, if the mother is being Reckless with her life the baby shouldn't have to pay the price for it. 

[MonsterPaws 2,745]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

What's the issue there?  I'm a believer that if someone feels strongly enough that they don't want to live anymore, it's their life to end. That choice is especially justified when terminal illnesses and such are thrown into the mix.

 

But what if bullying lead to a suicide, then in this case would the bullies be prosecuted?

I personally am not against suicide either as I always ponder the thought of committing it myself and it would be my choice and no one else's. But if you really think about life that way in terms of personal choice, we can begin to justify murder, rape, etc.

Yes, the actions I listed affect others as well so they're "wrong". But couldn't we boil it down so that we can justify these actions as well? I feel like if you really delve into a series of arguments, one can justify any "terrible" doing. Nothing would be black or white anymore, just grey. But okay if you're smart enough to break it down through an extensive logical sequence.

[PartySick 174,241]

4 minutes ago, PaperIz said:

That last part gets me though. Why does the fetus not have a right to life? Like I said earlier, if the mother is being Reckless with her life the baby shouldn't have to pay the price for it. 

There is no objective answer to that question. That's why this issue is still so hot and will always be. It's all a matter of perspective and opinion.

[MarryTheKnight 2,181]

So they're going to limit abortions as much as possible and also plan to lower taxes and government funds to poor families, thus creating a problematic and dangerous cycle that will have serious social-economic repercussions. 

Also, anyone who believes people use abortions as a primary source of contraception are whack and uneducated.

The Republican Party allegedly believes in limited government intervention, but when it comes to women's rights to their own bodies, that seems to go out the window. Funny how these idiots put the 2nd amendment before the first. Absolute trash. 

[PartySick 174,241]

2 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

But what if bullying lead to a suicide, then in this case would the bullies be prosecuted?

Of course. If it's a case of something like illness, crippling mental illness, a severe unsatisfactory with life, those are all personal issues that you can decide to tackle or "run from" (I didn't know how else to put that). However, if someone's actions pushed someone to the point that they wanted to stop living, they should definitely face consequences for that. What those consequences are, I couldn't say, but those are two very different scenarios.

5 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

I personally am not against suicide either as I always ponder the thought of committing it myself and it would be my choice and no one else's. But if you really think about life that way in terms of personal choice, we can begin to justify murder, rape, etc.

Yes, the actions I listed affect others as well so they're "wrong". But couldn't we boil it down so that we can justify these actions as well? I feel like if you really delve into a series of arguments, one can justify any "terrible" doing. Nothing would be black or white anymore, just grey. But okay if you're smart enough to break it down through an extensive logical sequence.

Suicide also affects others. Namely your loved ones which is partially one of the reasons why I decided against that when I hit my lowest point years ago.

Nothing is black and white already  around the world there's things that are taboo for some but tradition for others. That includes things like rape, incest, homosexuality, abortions, etc. All of these things, unfortunately or fortunately (depending on who you ask), lie in a grey area and it's up to us as individuals to give our own personal assignment of "right" or "wrong" to each one and to back up that stance with our own logic which is nearly always subjective and merely another opinion in the vast sea of conflicting human thoughts.

We're strange creatures to say the least.

Spoiler

Btw, I appreciate your thought process

 

[DrewStevens 5,249]

23 minutes ago, PaperIz said:

Well then you should accept the risk  I mean it's not just your own life that it will effect by having an abortion. Whether or not anyone is willing to admit it's murder which truly is debatable, the fetus still will become a life and if you brought it into being you should take responsibility for it.

Uhm no.

First of all a fetus doesn't exist till week 11 after fertilization. Before week 11 it's an embryo.

I don't know if you believe in spirits and souls but before that period an embryo is not even close to being a human being.

How is it murder to abort an embryo of, lets say, 5 weeks?

Does this look like a baby?

[666 others 1,856]

19 minutes ago, PaperIz said:

That last part gets me though. Why does the fetus not have a right to life? Like I said earlier, if the mother is being Reckless with her life the baby shouldn't have to pay the price for it. 

Saying that the mother is being reckless is unfair imo. If a woman becomes pregnant even after practising safe sex (because no method of contraception, apart from abstinence of course, is 100% foolproof) and is not in a position to have the child (I really don't think any woman decides to have an abortion for fun, or on a whim), then forcing her to do so would boil down to punishing her for having sex.

[PaperIz 7,354]

3 minutes ago, DrewStevens said:

Uhm no.

First of all a fetus doesn't exist till week 11 after fertilization. Before week 11 it's an embryo.

I don't know if you believe in spirits and souls but before that period an embryo is not even close to being a human being.

How is it murder to abort an embryo of, lets say, 5 weeks?

Does this look like a baby?

Whether or not it is currently a baby in that form isn't the issue, the issue is that it will become one. I think that the baby deserves a chance at life even if you don't want to call it a baby yet. 

3 minutes ago, Joanne Angelina said:

Saying that the mother is being reckless is unfair imo. If a woman becomes pregnant even after practising safe sex (because no method of contraception, apart from abstinence of course, is 100% foolproof) and is not in a position to have the child (and I really don't think any woman decides to have an abortion for fun, or on a whim), then forcing her to do so would boil down to punishing her for having sex.

Not everyone who gets pregnant on accident is reckless, that wasn't the point. The point is saying anyone who is Reckless shouldn't punish their future child for their mistakes. I am pro-choice, but I wish more people would chose life. I can't force them to and I shouldn't be able too. I have sympathy for anyone who gets pregnant and if they can't handle it, I understand. I still want the babies to have a chance at life as well though. 

[Morphine Prince 109,926]

9 minutes ago, MarryTheKnight said:

So they're going to limit abortions as much as possible and also plan to lower taxes and government funds to poor families, thus creating a problematic and dangerous cycle that will have serious social-economic repercussions. 

Also, anyone who believes people use abortions as a primary source of contraception are whack and uneducated.

The Republican Party allegedly believes in limited government intervention, but when it comes to women's rights to their own bodies, that seems to go out the window. Funny how these idiots put the 2nd amendment before the first. Absolute trash. 

You just ENDED the Republican Party 

[DrewStevens 5,249]

4 minutes ago, PaperIz said:

Whether or not it is currently a baby in that form isn't the issue, the issue is that it will become one. I think that the baby deserves a chance at life even if you don't want to call it a baby yet. 

Not everyone who gets pregnant on accident is reckless, that wasn't the point. The point is saying anyone who is Reckless shouldn't punish their future child for their mistakes. I am pro-choice, but I wish more people would chose life. I can't force them to and I shouldn't be able too. I have sympathy for anyone who gets pregnant and if they can't handle it, I understand. I still want the babies to have a chance at life as well though. 

Well that's just your opinion which is based on your own feelings and points of view.

The fact is that an embryo is not a baby. You can call it a baby if you want to, but it's not a baby or a future child.

[PaperIz 7,354]

1 minute ago, DrewStevens said:

Well that's just your opinion which is based on your own feelings and points of view.

The fact is that an embryo is not a baby. You can call it a baby if you want to, but it's not a baby or a future child.

But that's really dumb though. If someone is pregnant, they're going to have a baby. Yes things happen like miscarriages, but it's still going to become a baby. A human life. 

[666 others 1,856]

7 hours ago, PaperIz said:

Whether or not it is currently a baby in that form isn't the issue, the issue is that it will become one. I think that the baby deserves a chance at life even if you don't want to call it a baby yet. 

Not everyone who gets pregnant on accident is reckless, that wasn't the point. The point is saying anyone who is Reckless shouldn't punish their future child for their mistakes. I am pro-choice, but I wish more people would chose life. I can't force them to and I shouldn't be able too. I have sympathy for anyone who gets pregnant and if they can't handle it, I understand. I still want the babies to have a chance at life as well though. 

I understand and respect your point of view.

On topic of this thread, I think imposing a blanket ban on legal, safe abortion will do no good to anyone. I think a more humane and reasonable approach would be to have counselling sessions for women who apply for abortion. Some women may actually change their decision after receiving emotional support and possible solutions of their problems from an empathetic counsellor. Also, if the government is so willing to stop foetuses from being killed, it should extend all possible kind of support to the mothers so that they need not have to abort due to external reasons (lack of resources, career etc.) that can be taken care of.

If after all these a woman still chooses to go through abortion, she should be allowed to do so.

Edit: Here I'm talking about women who are medically not at risk for giving birth. In cases where the mother is in danger, there is no question of prioritizing the rights of an unborn foetus over the rights of an alive woman.

[PaperIz 7,354]

5 minutes ago, Joanne Angelina said:

I understand and respect your point of view.

On topic of this thread, I think imposing a blanket ban on legal, safe abortion will do no good to anyone. I think a more humane and reasonable approach would be to have counselling sessions for women who apply for abortion. Some women may actually change their decision after receiving emotional support and possible solutions of their problems from an empathetic counsellor. Also, if the government is so willing to stop foetuses from being killed, it should extend all possible kind of support to the mothers so that they need not have to abort due to external reasons (lack of resources, career etc.) that can be taken care of.

If after all these a woman still chooses to go through abortion, she should be allowed to do so.

Exactly. I agree 100%.