Why I Admire Gaga Less Now

[Katsuki Bakugo 9,788]

Certaintly you could have summarised it? 

Or not even posted this. 

 

[Princess Zelda 726]

She was raped. Isn't that traumatising enough?

[Bebe 17,093]

That was a lot to read

I disagree that Gaga plays the victim, I don't think she is trying to create this "I've overcome so much, I'm amazing" narrative. I do think that she is open about her struggles, but we also saw in one of her first interviews with The Rolling Stone her reluctance to talk about some of her darker experiences (likely the sexual assault she revealed later)

You have a lot of things in your behavior that are signs of someone who had a traumatic experience in adolescence or childhood. Is that something you would ever discuss publicly?
Probably not.

When Christina Aguilera began talking about the dark issues in her past — growing up around domestic abuse — there was no negative response to it, and it ended up informing her work.
[Hesitates] I feel like I tell this story in my own way, and my fans know who I really am. I don't want to teach them the wrong things. And you also have to be careful about how much you reveal to people that look up to you so much. They know who I am. They know how they can relate to me. I've laid it all on the table. And if they're smart like you, they make that assessment, but I don't want to be a bad example.

A bad example in the sense of being a victim?
Yeah, and I'm not a victim. And my message is positive. My show has a lovely naivete and melancholy to it: a pop melancholy. That's my art. If I told that other story in that way, I don't know if that's the best way I can help the universe.

Because if you did talk about it, then things you did would be misinterpreted and seen through that experience?
Yeah. Maybe if I was writing my own book or something. I guess it's hard to . . . . If I say one thing in our interview right now, it will be all over the world the day after it hits the stands. And it would be twisted and turned. And it's like you have to honor some things. Some things are sacred.

I understand.
There are some things that are so traumatic, I don't even fully remember them. But I will say wholeheartedly that I had the most wonderful mother and father. I was never abused. I didn't have a bad childhood. All of the things I went through were on my own quest for an artistic journey to **** myself up like Warhol and Bowie and Mick, and just go for it.

That's interesting that you have this idea that the artist has to expose himself to these dark parts of life.
You do, but all of the trauma I caused to myself [pauses]. Or it was caused by people that I met when being outrageous and irresponsible. What I'm trying to say is that I like to, within moderation, respect that I'm not Mick Jagger or David Bowie, and I don't just have fans that are a certain age. There are, like, nine-year-olds listening to my music, so I guess I try to be respectful of them if at all possible.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-broken-heart-and-violent-fantasies-of-lady-gaga-20100708

Did she go through a period of self destructive behaviour? Absolutely - it's not really that uncommon, for young rebellious people. She talks about her desire to go out and really go for it without much concern for her safety, to '**** herself up' like Warhol, Mick and Bowie (A lot of that looks like survivors response to abuse though, that it was her fault 'all of the trauma I caused to myself [pauses]. Or it was caused by people that I met when being outrageous and irresponsible').

She talks about what happened in her early years as something she is to blame for due to her recklessness. That she caused her trauma by running into bad people when she was irresponsible.

She also expresses that she doesn't want to go into her trauma at that time though and talks about how she isn't a victim. I don't fault Gaga for showing some real emotion and showing cracks in her persona - I don't think it's with the intention of looking like a victim, it's with the intention of being ****ing real with her audience.

I have nothing but love for Madonna too, but she dressed like a sad clown during her Rebel Heart tour and talked about how depressed she was over her son Rocco's custody battle.

She has had plenty of moments of weakness:

It's not a side of herself she shows us much, which is fine, but I think it's equally fine to open up in the way that Gaga does. I don't think that = playing the victim at all.

[Rugbyguy 144]

I think you made a lot of sense and you'd be surprised how many people agree with you, none of those people being from GagaDaily however

[jojuun 4,159]

20 hours ago, aaronyoji said:

how is gaga less dedicated and motivated than the others based off of how open she is about her problems? is openly discussing it when interviewers ask in regards to the main theme of her album, somehow not strength?? also, to put into context, gaga's main crux with joanne is not that she personally knew her, but that joanne had an impact on gaga's family directly, particularly her dad. its like, a third party observation, pain through seeing the pain of others. i don't see how gaga acknowledging the heartache of her aunts death on her parents/family members is a self inflicted problem, or something gaga is using as a means of pity. 

It's not about the fact she's open about it. It's about the fact she goes back to that darkness every single time, then talks about it, gives us a sparkle of hope she's overcome it during the early promotion of an era, then goes back into the negative spiral during the era. She is obviously also less dedicated to her career than she was in the beginning. Of course she was establishing herself in the beginning so it's logical she performed 10 times more then than she does now but do you want to compare schedules? It's just a well-known fact with the general public that Madonna and Beyonce rehearse like maniacs. Their careers are almost purely-based on the live show power. That's where they shine most. Gaga did too. The Monster Ball was (arguable but in my opinion it was) the most iconic tour of a "new" artist in recent times. She SLAYED that tour. It was on na established Madonna/Beyonce level. NO ONE put on that kind of show as their first major tour. She did that. Madonna and Beyonce didn't even slay that hard with their first headline tours. Gaga did. But her last few album campaigns, the BTWB and ARTRAVE are NOT on the same level as her early dedication, blind people can see that. The reviews prove it, the opinions of the fanbase proves it and then there's the objective part of it all: her ticket sales prove that. She doesn't have the same level of work ethic as M & B anymore. That's why THEY are still selling out their mega tours, despite careers at least 2x longer than Gaga (almost 5x in Madonna's case) and DESPITE their struggles. It's not even about the music "ARTPOP was just not relevant enough", "Joanne is too country for the GP." It's about the work ethic which is automatically tied to an artist's general well-being.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

She is not congruent but I can't think of one person who is congruent all the time. 

We are all allowed to change our mind and our vision. She did and she deserves respect even if you don't like her decisions or her current point of view.

If you only like your idols strong then you're probably never going to find one because there's no one is always strong. They may fake it like Kanye and Madonna but we all have seen them having breakdowns on stage and doing things that scream for attention.

Gaga used to fool herself and everyone else saying that she was indestructible but now she has grown up and discovered that feeling indestructible is a weakness and not a strength. Being aware of your weaknesses is a strength and she definitely has it now. 

[kizurl 1,801]

I think it's rather problematic when one talks about Gaga's career a single line of thread as if she's ever coherent about the thought processes of her work. No, she changed and that's why you can't use her words 2-3 years ago as a thesis of her current self. I do find her becoming more and more detached from her performance nature and that's so telling of the whole Joanne era where she bares all of her personal self. That's why the Beyonce and Madonna references are rather skewed because they are indeed performers and they aren't apologetic about the fact. They leave their personal lives behind closed door, whereas Gaga has struggled with that more in the recent years I feel. Then again, I don't think we'd even get an album this time if it wasn't a Joanne. Gaga set herself up for something unforeseen which she couldn't perform anymore. It's not fair to justify what she does now with her ambitions back in 2011 when her shortcomings of her art were not yet realized.

[Diamond Heart 4,400]

Celebrities are people too jesus christ 
This fanbase is the worst lmao

[Computer 10,973]

35 minutes ago, jojuun said:

"I'm not just rehearsing over and over again to put on a show like Madonna. There's a spontaneity in my work. I allow myself to fail, I allow myself to break. I'm not afraid of my flaws. There are major differences between me and her." 

I think that bold part says it all. Gaga sees it as a strength, while I consider it as her biggest flaw.

I wanted to post again about this part.  I don't see this as a flaw in Gaga because I don't believe her at all.  I think it was just a convenient thing to say about Madonna.  For a lot of the reasons you put forth about Gaga's early career, I see her as a total control freak and doesn't like to fail.  I think the only time she was really depressed during her career was when ARTPOP didn't go as planned.  For the first time she felt herself losing grips on her career and freaked out and fired everyone.  All these new tv roles and Oscar performances and new Joanne stylings are her attempting to seize back control.  I also thought Madonna seemed like a much more spontaneous personality, Gaga seems at least as calculating as Madonna if not more so and hates failing.

[Bebe 17,093]

4 minutes ago, jojuun said:

It's not about the fact she's open about it. It's about the face she goes back to that darkness every single time, then talks about it, gives us a sparkle of hope she's overcome it during the early promotion of an era, then goes back into the negative spiral during the era. She is obviously also less dedicated to her career than she was in the beginning. Of course she was establishing herself in the beginning so it's logical she performed 10 times more then than she does now but do you want to compare schedules? It's just a well-known fact with the general public that Madonna and Beyonce rehearse like maniacs. Their careers are almost purely-based on the live show power. That's where they shine most. Gaga did too. The Monster Ball was (arguable but in my opinion it was) the most iconic tour of a "new" artist in recent times. She SLAYED that tour. It was on na established Madonna/Beyonce level. NO ONE put on that kind of show as their first major tour. She did that. Madonna and Beyonce didn't even slay that hard with their first headline tours. Gaga did. But her last few album campaigns, the BTWB and ARTRAVE are NOT on the same level as her early dedication, blind people can see that. The reviews prove it, the opinions of the fanbase proves it and then there's the objective part of it all: her ticket sales prove that. She doesn't have the same level of work ethic as M & B anymore. That's why THEY are still selling out their mega tours, despite careers at least 2x longer than Gaga (almost 5x in Madonna's case) and DESPITE their struggles. It's not even about the music "ARTPOP was just not relevant enough", "Joanne is too country for the GP." It's about the work ethic which is automatically tied to an artist's general well-being.

You seem a little erratic with your criticisms. It's a little hard to respond to when you are drifting from:

She has "some kind of tragedy-wish"

To

"She likes to play the victim"

To

"I believe she knew the amount of scrutiny she was going to be under very, very well.... She wanted to be a huge superstar

To

"Why does she go back to self-destruction time and time again?"

To

"She is obviously also less dedicated to her career than she was in the beginning."

and so on These are all completely different points.
 

[Manul 7,377]

I cant wait for the drama, bookmarked

[Whispering 18,865]

Gaga and Madonna are completely different personalities. If you like the way that Madonna's acts and behaves, go spend your time on her. It's not like there aren't places to discuss her.

Gaga has always been different than Madonna...and I'm much more interested in the way Gaga reacts and interacts with the world and her fans...and how she expresses herself artistically. 

[PeterPan 0]

54 minutes ago, jojuun said:

Hey guys, first of all let me get started by saying this is in no way meant to hurt Gaga or upset any of you who feel passionate about defending Gaga in these kind of seemingly "negative" threads. I do not mean to be hurtful or derogatory towards anyone, it's just simply what I've been feeling for a long time now and I'm hoping to see a real discussion about this and share thoughts on this subject. I would like it to be done in a respectful manner so please refrain yourselves from saying I'm a "bad fan" or reply with shady gif's and emoji's that serve little purpose in a section where it's supposed to be all about discussion of our personal opinions. Let's be kind towards one another. 



After the recent news of Kanye's mental breakdown, watching last night's AMA's where Selena Gomez gave her emotional speech, seeing Gaga react to that in the audience and Gaga's struggles over the past years and her recent Instagram posts about the subject: I've figured out why I am still a fan of Gaga but am not as big of an admirer as I used to be. Or how much more admiration I feel now when I look at Madonna's astonishing career for instance.

I don't like the "weakness" of it all. I like my idols to overcome their biggest struggles and not go on about it endlessly publicly.

Let me dive in a little more.

I get the feeling there's this entire victim thing going on with a lot of the current generation of popstars. I get that this is a post-Britney Tumblr generation and Britney's struggle with fame has been famously captured by every single camera ever and I do agree with the general appreciation that she's come a really long way since then. I've always rooted for Brit, I've always felt that she was being authentic during that time. But even Britney in 2008, crying in front of a camera, clearly struggling with mental illness, sat down in her post-breakdown documentary For The Record on probably tens of mood-stabilizers and said clearly that she dislikes being seen as a victim. I feel like Gaga, in a way, has found comfort in being a public "victim" of her success ever since she had her meteoric rise to fame in 2008. I think she really finds comfort in the heroic "I overcame something story". But I don't feel like it is justified. I don't feel like it is authentically hers. I think there's something really, really dark inside of her that wishes she had a more dramatic life story than she really does, just so it makes her a bigger legend when a biography is published and someone looks at her life 100 years from now. 

In Gaga's Anderson Cooper hosted 60 Minutes special, in the early days of the Born This Way era, she was so cocky during the segment where she talks about "the art of fame". She spoke about people wanting to see her fail, the demise and downfall of a superstar. She claimed that she had studied that pattern and implied that she was not heading down that path. Minutes later during the same special, she was shown crying on a staircase and the clip of her crying in her dressing room before a Monster Ball show was aired too. A complete contradiction. "The master of fame" at 8 PM, a self-proclaimed victim of it by 8:05 PM. During that same period, she flat-out told Vanity Fair she was on drugs for anxiety and implied that she, before her fame and high-profile career, took drugs at a young age to inflict a struggle upon herself. She said, and I quote: "I used to pray every night that God would make me crazy."

The full quote is even more upsetting. "I prayed that God would teach me something, that he would instill in me a creativity and a strangeness that all of those people that I love and respected had." It has always bothered me. What the f*ck is that about?

Don't get me wrong here... I do believe Gaga has personal struggles and demons. I do believe that mega-fame is really hard to handle. But I also believe she knew that beforehand.  She said so herself countless times. The Paparazzi video is about it, for goodness sake. I believe she knew the amount of scrutiny she was going to be under very, very well. Weeks before Just Dance dropped, she was photographed by a random streetstyle photographer in New York, while walking around with her mother. The blogger/photographer asked for her name and she said "Lady Gaga". The photographer looked at her like "What kind of name is that?" And she quickly replied to his confused face "You'll know it soon enough." 6 months later, she was the biggest new popstar in the world. She knew damn well what she was getting into. She WANTED to be a huge superstar, her parents had invested heaps of money into it, her father registered corporations (he's listed in some of them) in Gaga's name months ahead of the final deal with Interscope so she could get a more-than-average cut of the royalties/publishing rights from her soon to be global hit-music. He knew. She knew. You don't send a teenager to the best vocal teacher in the world (Don Lawrence) for years if you do not see potential in that child. She was hungry for superstardom from the get-go. That's why she did endless shows and appearances in the beginning of her career. She worked like a maniac from 2008 until the end of 2011 because she wanted to be a superstar more than anything. 

I strongly feel like Gaga has inflicted a lot of her struggles upon herself in order to emulate the tumultuous, tragedy-filled lives of her personal idols and iconic stars. Even though I am sure she's intelligent enough to recognize that self-destructive tendency within herself and resist against it. Yet she didn't.

Mind you, all those quotes and the first anxiety pills came YEARS before Troy and the BTW Ball hip-break/ARTPOP mess. A lot of you think her struggles started there when it's well-documented the signs of self-inflicted struggles have always been there, her drug habit at 18/19/20/21 being one of them.

I truly believe Gaga has some kind of tragedy-wish, in the VF article she basically admits it. And like I said in the beginning of this post, slowly coming to this conclusion for myself over the past few months, has only made me appreciate someone like Madonna more. Madonna's mother died when she was five years old. She was very close to her and was even named after her mother. Her father always refused to talk about grief or emotions and she wasn't allowed to talk about it either. He was a very disciplined father who insisted Madonna would be academically successful instead of supporting her dream to become a professional dancer. She has 7 siblings, didn't have a lot growing up (opposed to Gaga's privileged upbringing, even if she likes to call it "middle-class") and had to move to New York as a young adult to pursue her dreams all by herself (as opposed to Gaga's parents paying for her elite education, expensive vocal teachers, allowed to perform at talent showcases in nightclubs aged 14, prestigious higher education at an expensive art school and her father helping her out business-wise before her career even went anywhere).

I think that kind of Madonna-esque American Dream biography that smells of light heroism is honestly what Gaga has always longed for. From the get-go she's talked openly about her drug abuse, about her dead aunt and now there's a song and an entire album dedicated to it... Why is that? I'm sure it HAS impacted her in some way. How could it not? But I think there's a self-destructiveness inside of her more than anything that's at the root of her struggles and I don't like that because I know that she knows that too. That's not what I saw in her when I first became a fan (which is why I chose the 2008 picture in the beginning of this post). I feel like back then, she made a conscious decision not to let that twisted side get the best of her. And then along the road, it became kind of convenient to use it as her own personal "hero" biography and as an excuse for being, I'm going to say it y'all (don't get upset), kind of mediocre. Let me be clear here, I don't think she's mediocre in the talent departement. She's an outstanding vocalist and performer. But the hunger, the discipline and dedication she showcased at the start of her career has been lost. There's no denying it anymore now. Someone with a non self-inflicted backstory like Madonna has never lost that. Madonna is 4 decades into her career. She's still a massive star and the only one from her generation that is not tragically dead (Michael, Prince, Whitney...) or faded into oblivion. She is incredibly, incredibly disciplined and dedicated and most importantly: not self-destructive. Gaga knows that, by the way. Why do you think she went on about Madonna in the Beats 1 Radio interview like that recently? Here's the quote:

"I'm not just rehearsing over and over again to put on a show like Madonna. There's a spontaneity in my work. I allow myself to fail, I allow myself to break. I'm not afraid of my flaws. There are major differences between me and her." 

I think that bold part says it all. Gaga sees it as a strength, while I consider it as her biggest flaw. I think she needs to resist that self-destructive side. She's still hinting about recreational drug use (not the medical kind) on Joanne. For someone who's always posting about ways to deal with chronic pain and mental health, I think that's incredibly stupid. Why would you f*ck yourself up some more when you are fighting against inner-demons and are aware of that? Some like Amy Winehouse clearly wasn't able to think clear in her darkest moments. Gaga is, cause she's posting about them during those times on Instagram.

I like strength in my idols and not in the look-at-what-I-overcame way Gaga is doing it.

Madonna went to her mother's grave in her Truth Or Dare documentary. The scene was obviously edited to make the viewer feel sorry for her. But it was obvious, transparent even. Madonna wasn't crying for the camera either. It wasn't "feel sorry for me" cinema. It was "look at the fact I'm on a cemetery next to my dead mother who I've only known as an infant and the way I turned that negative into a positive. Be inspired." It's brief and it's used as a short passage to make the viewer aware that you can bend any negative into a positive. But she didn't actually need to hashtag that on Instagram or dwell endlessly about it like Gaga has over the past few years.

Or look at Beyoncé. Who has talked about miscarriages. But, just like Madonna personal tragedy, it was brief. It was never used as some kind of excuse but rather as a brief moment of inspiration. Beyoncé was puking backstage in between songs during one of her most iconic sets (Glastonbury 2011). She said that once and never brought it up again on her own. She and Madonna are the perfect examples of the ultimate showcasing of strength. They go forward, they don't dwell on the past. Self-inflicted drug use and the death of an aunt you never even knew, I'm sorry, they don't weigh up in my book when you compare them to the death of your mother or the loss of your unborn child. Of course, it is not a "pain contest" but I'm just wondering why these two other women can use that as a stomping ground where they source strength from and Gaga writes a song like Joanne and then says "I allow myself to break." Publicly. As if it some kind of achievement. She could've just put it in the music like Madonna & Bey (songs like 'Promise To Try' and 'I Was Here' spring to mind). But no. It's always coming back in interviews. Endlessly.

I feel like Gaga genuinely likes the victim role and also the quite unauthentic praise she gets because of it.

Thoughts?

(And don't even bother with saying mental illness is serious and needs more public awareness. Of course it is and of course it does, she could still do that. Things like the BTW-Foundation and the Born Brave Bus could've still happened without Gaga going on endlessly about it for years. And I still love her. I just don't like the self-destructing, then victimising herself because of it part of her.)

Didnt Gaga struggle before her superstardom. I thought i read before she was famous in like 2005-2008 that she struggled financially and lived of ramen noodles and what not?

And why would anyone want to live a tragedy filled life? Im pretty sure thats not what she wants. No one wants to spend their life in pain and misery

[littlepotter 75,083]

28 minutes ago, Bebe said:

If I say one thing in our interview right now, it will be all over the world the day after it hits the stands. And it would be twisted and turned. And it's like you have to honor some things. Some things are sacred.

6 years later she releases a whole album about her dead aunt

[Tumblr 1,846]

All of these essay I can't