Hillary set to receive the second most votes ever in US history

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

9 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Yes

 

If this is what happens with Gore winning by 500k, God can only know what will happen during Trumps inauguration when he loses by (projected) 2M votes.

And this is much worse. 

It's already a mess. Inauguration Day will be so crazy in MANY CITIES, not just DC.

One of my relatives will attend the inauguration and I fear for their safety tbh. 

[Luc 4,776]

7 minutes ago, reysus said:

Nice counterargument. Very insightful.

It's a good counter-argument. In a democracy ideally all votes should count just as much. To give the lower educated a bigger say than the higher educated equals stupidity

if the electoral college were to be removed, it could also prove useful for third parties. I think the US is ready for a France-like system of elections with first and second round for president and proportional representation in parliament.

 

 

As for the state thing: the problems where states can have different interests, like with forestation, infrastructure and culture, should be left to the state level of administration. In that way states can be given what they want on issues that matter for those states. In areas where competition or morality plays a role, the government with legitimacy from the popular vote should decide.

[Luc 4,776]

5 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

And this is much worse. 

It's already a mess. Inauguration Day will be so crazy in MANY CITIES, not just DC.

One of my relatives will attend the inauguration and I fear for their safety tbh. 

There's going to be real riots  maybe they could movethe inauguration to rural Texas?  DC doesn't seem like the most Trump-friendly place.

[reysus 1,064]

2 minutes ago, Luc said:

It's a good counter-argument. In a democracy ideally all votes should count just as much. To give the lower educated a bigger say than the higher educated equals stupidity

if the electoral college were to be removed, it could also prove useful for third parties. I think the US is ready for a France-like system of elections with first and second round for president and proportional representation in parliament.

 

 

As for the state thing: the problems where states can have different interests, like with forestation, infrastructure and culture, should be left to the state. In that way states can be given what they want. In areas where competition and morality play a role, the government with legitimacy from the popular vote should decide.

For the education of voters, what about some of the urban black voters who barely graduate high school? I think that their votes should count equally, but you imply that they shouldn't just because their educational resources are poor.

I do agree that the electoral college system has encouraged the corrupt two-party system in this country.

And states can't just be "given what the want". I'm not sure I even understand what that is supposed to mean. The federal government has limited resources, and it has to choose which states receive funding or other benefits for certain projects. The president basically promises funding to a particular state when he/she campaigns in that state.

[Luc 4,776]

2 minutes ago, reysus said:

For the education of voters, what about some of the urban black voters who barely graduate high school? I think that their votes should count equally, but you imply that they shouldn't just because their educational resources are poor.

I do agree that the electoral college system has encouraged the corrupt two-party system in this country.

And states can't just be "given what the want". I'm not sure I even understand what that is supposed to mean. The federal government has limited resources, and it has to choose which states receive funding or other benefits for certain projects. The president basically promises funding to a particular state when he/she campaigns in that state.

I mean that the individual states should have the right to decide on things that concern their state alone, and to raise taxes for that. I think that's already the case, and thus the whole representing states thing is useless.

I did not say that education should play a role... I meant to point out the irony of the 'founding fathers' who wanted to give the higher-educated a bigger say with the system but it ending up with the lower-educated deciding the election in the favour of nobody.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

26 minutes ago, reysus said:

Trump told the rust belt that he wouldn't let any more of their jobs go to Mexico or China (again I'm not arguing the validity of any of his statements). His lack of previous political positions didn't matter. He told Ohio and Michigan voters what the wanted to hear just as Obama told Illinois and Iowa voters what they wanted to hear.

So basically the system allows little towns to be fooled by politicians just as big cities. Wow that's such a progressive way of driving politics.

[reysus 1,064]

3 minutes ago, Luc said:

I mean that the individual states should have the right to decide on things that concern their state alone, and to raise taxes for that. I think that's already the case, and thus the whole representing states thing is useless.

I did not say that education should play a role... I meant to point out the irony of the 'founding fathers' who wanted to give the higher-educated a bigger say with the system but it ending up with the lower-educated deciding the election in the favour of nobody.

Hamilton thought that more of a direct democracy was a bad idea, but Jefferson would be fine with regular people having a say in things. The current system is just a compromise, and there probably isn't a better way to do things in a country like the US. That's all. I'm tired now lol 

[Adakam 2]

People can give me any explanation and excuse they want but this is not a democracy, and Ive felt that way before this election.

It is the reason why the turnout is so low and it is the reason why it keeps swinging back and forth between D and R with no real change and so much division between the people, its like dems are at war with reps, and that is not ok.

[LuMetal 68]

posted this in another thread but its more appropriate here

the electoral college isnt the culprit here, its a good compromise so smaller states dont feel unrepresented as that is justification for secession or revolution just like we revolted when we weren't represented in parliament. the rural areas have issues that are geographically distinct from cities that deserve to be addressed by politicians and popular vote leaves them out to dry. morally, popular vote isn't something i can support

 

the winner take all system that the states use that is the culprit. divide the electoral votes by percentage votes and you get a more accurate representation of what he country wants. i think this can be changed at the state level and the constitution does not have to be amended though you need all states to get on board and i don't think you'll convince the smaller states or republican states to give it up

[Delusional Aura 5,129]

3 hours ago, CrazyMonster said:

Me too. I hope he gets shot.

Oops did I just say that?

I guess my ass is gonna get

I don't know ya  

 

[xoxo cupcakke 4,781]

4 hours ago, Maleficent said:

He was elected by the people for the people. I think American citizens need to understand that the ball is in their court. He will have to listen to the voice of the majority. 

I mean, not like POCs and minorities have anything to lose but their entitlement to respect and equal rights as a human being, because it's not like we exist in this country and fear that everything that has been done in the name of social progression could possibly be eliminated thanks to a conservative Congress and a President who is upholding his promises to elect conservative cabinet members or Supreme Court Justices which will be approved by a conservative Congress 

Because even though I was born and raised in America and have had to work twice as hard to get where I am because of my state as an American coming from a lower-middle class and a minority trying to make something of himself in this systematically oppressive society, I'm still considered the other 

But that's the thing, I'm not privileged enough to exist or have a voice in this country if a majority of conservative, white Americans disgruntled by their lack of attention from government officials directing their attention towards those who are suffering America's double standards believe that they believe America is falling to pieces. Sure Joanne... let's make America great again by reverting to where we were at the beginning of the millennium, because it's not like a majority of Trump's supporters are uneducated, lower-middle class individuals fooled into thinking those in a similar socioeconomic state are the real enemies 

[xoxo cupcakke 4,781]

2 hours ago, reysus said:

Hamilton thought that more of a direct democracy was a bad idea, but Jefferson would be fine with regular people having a say in things. The current system is just a compromise, and there probably isn't a better way to do things in a country like the US. That's all. I'm tired now lol 

That is true, a true democracy is absolutely horrendous to many philosophers and government officials, and I agree with them to an extent; think of all the turmoil that can arise from one man, one vote

Then again, the electoral college is just as bad as it genuinely sides with the popular vote rather than who the best candidate for the position is. It's a matter of educating ourselves on the politics of our country, becoming involved individually in more political affairs, and not letting our representatives fall prey to their constituents' sometimes incorrect or unconstitutional beliefs or possible financial or political gain

Then there's this paradox of a government which supposedly separates church and state, which it does in that the US is not a theocracy, but politics constantly intermingle with religion thanks to a plethora of American representatives putting their religious beliefs over what is constitutionally or socially right, believing that religion is the true moral compass rather than deciding that on a humanistic level 

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

51 minutes ago, CowSiss said:

I mean, not like POCs and minorities have anything to lose but their entitlement to respect and equal rights as a human being, because it's not like we exist in this country and fear that everything that has been done in the name of social progression could possibly be eliminated thanks to a conservative Congress and a President who is upholding his promises to elect conservative cabinet members or Supreme Court Justices which will be approved by a conservative Congress 

Because even though I was born and raised in America and have had to work twice as hard to get where I am because of my state as an American coming from a lower-middle class and a minority trying to make something of himself in this systematically oppressive society, I'm still considered the other 

But that's the thing, I'm not privileged enough to exist or have a voice in this country if a majority of conservative, white Americans disgruntled by their lack of attention from government officials directing their attention towards those who are suffering America's double standards believe that they believe America is falling to pieces. Sure Joanne... let's make America great again by reverting to where we were at the beginning of the millennium, because it's not like a majority of Trump's supporters are uneducated, lower-middle class individuals fooled into thinking those in a similar socioeconomic state are the real enemies 

Thank you for sharing this. Personally, as a white man who can acknowledge his white privilege (also male privilege) I like to listen to voices that are silenced rather than speak myself in situations where I am in the conversation.

We all know there's been enough white people who have spoken how they feel, and unfortunately that can get out of hand.  

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

2 hours ago, CowSiss said:

That is true, a true democracy is absolutely horrendous to many philosophers and government officials, and I agree with them to an extent; think of all the turmoil that can arise from one man, one vote

Then again, the electoral college is just as bad as it genuinely sides with the popular vote rather than who the best candidate for the position is. It's a matter of educating ourselves on the politics of our country, becoming involved individually in more political affairs, and not letting our representatives fall prey to their constituents' sometimes incorrect or unconstitutional beliefs or possible financial or political gain

Then there's this paradox of a government which supposedly separates church and state, which it does in that the US is not a theocracy, but politics constantly intermingle with religion thanks to a plethora of American representatives putting their religious beliefs over what is constitutionally or socially right, believing that religion is the true moral compass rather than deciding that on a humanistic level 

One of the most frustrating things about American government ever  

Less people when polled would vote for an Atheist for President than a Muslim person. And you know how much rural america and their guns hate Muslims  

2 hours ago, CowSiss said:

I mean, not like POCs and minorities have anything to lose but their entitlement to respect and equal rights as a human being, because it's not like we exist in this country and fear that everything that has been done in the name of social progression could possibly be eliminated thanks to a conservative Congress and a President who is upholding his promises to elect conservative cabinet members or Supreme Court Justices which will be approved by a conservative Congress 

Because even though I was born and raised in America and have had to work twice as hard to get where I am because of my state as an American coming from a lower-middle class and a minority trying to make something of himself in this systematically oppressive society, I'm still considered the other 

But that's the thing, I'm not privileged enough to exist or have a voice in this country if a majority of conservative, white Americans disgruntled by their lack of attention from government officials directing their attention towards those who are suffering America's double standards believe that they believe America is falling to pieces. Sure Joanne... let's make America great again by reverting to where we were at the beginning of the millennium, because it's not like a majority of Trump's supporters are uneducated, lower-middle class individuals fooled into thinking those in a similar socioeconomic state are the real enemies 

[uo111 5,282]

15 hours ago, reysus said:

Interesting graphic, but I never claimed that the electoral college is a perfect system. And as the map shows, more states are represented than there would be if the system was based purely on popular vote. And like I said in another post, swing states can change, so over time more states will be addressed as well.

This is an illogical conclusion.

If everyone's vote counted (which is NOT how it is now) then the presendtial candidates would have to campaign EVERYWHERE!

 

This country is not made up of urban and rural. This country is made up of people. Everyone's vote should carry the same weight. The idea that if everyone's vote is equal, city folk would have an advantage literally makes no sense.