Cisgender man to act Transgender in Mark Ruffalo film

[SKANK 14,288]

30 minutes ago, gagzus said:

I'm reading through this thread and I can already tell who the White gays are who legitimately clearly don't understand the issue at all. Yikes.

OT: I believe that it is in fact offensive to have a cis gender male play a trans woman, and I am offended too. I also get offended when gay characters are portrayed by straight people and when white people play PoC's. To me it invalidates a lot of things and YES it does push the idea that a trans woman is simply a man in a dress on the audience because people are ignorant.

Plus, if you aren't trans you don't get a say in what is offensive to trans people, I mean would some of you not be offended if every straight person told you what was and wasn't homophobic like some do and like a lot of white people try to say what is and isn't racist.

 

"I can tell the race of people based on their opinion."

Yikes is right.

[Lion Heart 15,041]

30 minutes ago, iCpro said:

The reason people don't play characters of other races anymore is because it just isn't convincing.

 

Please  

This is still happening. A quick search on the internet will show you this. 

 

[JDi 1,495]

1 hour ago, Bebe said:

But where are the roles for Transgendered actors? Why couldn't someone who is transgendered play this role?

I think what people in this thread are kinda missing, is that there are very little roles for transgendered people out there and when a major role like this is available they give it to somebody cisgendered. Why? 

Like the article also says:

"Viewers receive two strong and wrong messages: 1. that being transgender is an act, a performance, just a matter of playing dress-up; and 2. that underneath all that artifice, a transgender woman really is a man."

We are all aware that Matt Bomer, who will be playing the role, will be acting. We are all aware that the point of acting is to play a character that is not yourself.

But you would hopefully not get a white person to play an Asian character like they used to do:

You wouldn't say "Oh they are just acting! Why can't a white person play an Asian?? It's called acting, they are pretending to be people they are not!"

But what's the difference here? Why is it okay for cisgendered men to put on a wig and some makeup and pretend to be a transgendered woman? There are plenty of transgendered women out there who I'm sure could have played the part just fine.

 

the race argument is weak af

do you want us to accept the fact that we're all the same species and equal or not? 

one can argue that blondes shouldn't play brunettes either since that otherwise less significant difference in appearance is the result of a genetic code strong enough for us to conclude that those two different tribes had been completely isolated and homogenous for a time much much longer than recorded history. how doesn't that require consideration?

so Saxon-looking Briton David Bowie shouldn't have played Turkic-looking Southern Slav Nikola Tesla? did they rob a Bosnian actor of the role? or did they cast Christian Bale in the wrong one?

...the only promise of equality is chaos.

[Bebe 17,094]

3 minutes ago, JDi said:

the race argument is weak af

do you want us to accept the fact that we're all the same species and equal or not? 

one can argue that blondes shouldn't play brunettes either since that otherwise less significant difference in appearance is the result of a genetic code strong enough for us to conclude that those two different tribes had been completely isolated and homogenous for a time much much longer than recorded history.

so Saxon-looking Briton David Bowie shouldn't have played Turkic-looking Southern Slav Nikola Tesla? did they rob a Bosnian actor of the role? or did they cast Christian Bale in the wrong role there?

the only promise of equality is chaos.

"do you want us to accept the fact that we're all the same species and equal or not? "

As much as you might want to believe we are all equal, we are not all treated equally. This idea that a blonde shouldn't play a brunnette would be a ludicrous argument because we don't live at all in a society where brunettes live at a disadvantage. We don't like in a place where brunnette people are unable to find work or proper representation. There is no cultural stigma places upon being brunnette.

It's a false equivalency.

Transgendered people are not being chosen to play cis gendered people, Asian people are not being chosen and made up to play the role of a white European.

If you can name some mainstream movies where transgendered people are being cast as cisgendered people maybe you would have some tiny sliver of a point (although I think it would be great if hollywood cast trans people in more cisgendered roles), but as of now you are advocating cisgendered people taking away the only sort of roles available to trans people under some false pretence of equality.

[aaronyoji 2,054]

i mean... its matt bomer, i doubt trans people see themselves in someone whose basically a model payed to say lines in front of a camera. its probably a lack of depth and substance to the choice of actor that trans* people might take issue with. having someone who probably has never struggled because of how beautiful they look making millions off of the portrayal of a group of people who have had a life full of adversity.

can you honestly say this is the face of the trans* experience?? it just seems like more hollywood thirst-baiting. 

[aaronyoji 2,054]

4 minutes ago, Bebe said:

"do you want us to accept the fact that we're all the same species and equal or not? "

As much as you might want to believe we are all equal, we are not all treated equally. This idea that a blonde shouldn't play a brunnette would be a ludicrous argument because we don't live at all in a society where brunettes live at a disadvantage. We don't like in a place where brunnette people are unable to find work or proper representation. There is no cultural stigma places upon being brunnette.

It's a false equivalency.

Transgendered people are not being chosen to play cis gendered people, Asian people are not being chosen and made up to play the role of a white European.

If you can name some mainstream movies where transgendered people are being cast as cisgendered people maybe you would have some tiny sliver of a point (although I think it would be great if hollywood cast trans people in more cisgendered roles), but as of now you are advocating cisgendered people taking away the only sort of roles available to trans people under some false pretence of equality.

well said 

[aaronyoji 2,054]

16 minutes ago, JDi said:

the race argument is weak af

do you want us to accept the fact that we're all the same species and equal or not? 

one can argue that blondes shouldn't play brunettes either since that otherwise less significant difference in appearance is the result of a genetic code strong enough for us to conclude that those two different tribes had been completely isolated and homogenous for a time much much longer than recorded history. how doesn't that require consideration?

so Saxon-looking Briton David Bowie shouldn't have played Turkic-looking Southern Slav Nikola Tesla? did they rob a Bosnian actor of the role? or did they cast Christian Bale in the wrong one?

...the only promise of equality is chaos.

the race equivalency works tbh. 

actors are supposed to play characters. being trans, or black, or asian isn't a character that can be materialized for just anyone to portray, like a murderer or a narcissistic role. its an identity, and its intangible. 

[JDi 1,495]

Just now, Bebe said:

"do you want us to accept the fact that we're all the same species and equal or not? "

As much as you might want to believe we are all equal, we are not all treated equally. This idea that a blonde shouldn't play a brunnette would be a ludicrous argument because we don't live at all in a society where brunettes live at a disadvantage. We don't like in a place where brunnette people are unable to find work or proper representation. There is no cultural stigma places upon being brunnette.

It's a false equivalency.

Transgendered people are not being chosen to play cis gendered people, Asian people are not being chosen and made up to play the role of a white European.

If you can name some mainstream movies where transgendered people are being cast as cisgendered people maybe you would have some tiny sliver of a point (although I think it would be great if hollywood cast trans people in more cisgendered roles), but as of now you are advocating cisgendered people taking away the only sort of roles available to trans people under some false pretence of equality.

so basically, you're saying paying attention to past and present oppression and disadvantages is the solution?

you're dead wrong.

attention is not always progress and as of late it's been the more than obvious cause of all cultural stagnation. no matter how ethically we try to put it, it only breeds attention whores and people who hate attention whores with more passion.

[dopega 3,733]

This really shouldn't matter 

[Bebe 17,094]

3 minutes ago, JDi said:

so basically, you're saying paying attention to past and present oppression and disadvantages is the solution?

you're dead wrong.

attention is not always progress and as of late it's been the more than obvious cause of all cultural stagnation. no matter how ethically we try to put it, it only breeds attention whores and people who hate attention whores with more passion.

lol, honestly you're not even making a point you're just asserting things.

Yes, it's important to recognise present oppression and disadvantages and actively work to counter them. Your solution only seems to benefit white, cisgendered actors. Your solution to the problem of a lack of trans visibility and a lack of trans roles is "Well let's keep doing what we have always done and hiring cisgendered people to play trans characters! That will somehow lead to more opportunities for trans actors!"

Like, no. Straight, white, male, able bodied actors can basically play any role they choose. Others don't have the same opportunity, Matt Bomer wouldn't be struggling to find roles suitable for a white, cisgendered male actor if he didn't get this role - there are plenty of trans men and women who act and who would love to get considered for a fraction of the amount of the roles actors like Matt Bomer can get considered for.

Matt Bomer doesn't need to worry about a trans woman pretending to be cis male and taking the role of a hunky, white male lead. It isn't an equal scenario. It would be nice if Hollywood gave the parts of trans people to actual trans people as often as they give the parts of cis gendered people to actual cis gendered people.

[JDi 1,495]

8 minutes ago, aaronyoji said:

the race equivalency works tbh. 

actors are supposed to play characters. being trans, or black, or asian isn't a character that can be materialized for just anyone to portray, like a murderer or a narcissistic role. its an identity, and its intangible. 

I'm not saying I don't get it.

but what for the analogy I suggested? Germanic people had the best standard of living on Earth for a 1000 years which is something they partly owe the Balkan people who guarded the gates to Europe and paid with their own identity (nationality, language, religion and even offspring) so how come Nikola Tesla's ancestors have no identity to pay our respects to? not oppressed enough? not currently an issue? there were tons of xenophobic comments directed at ex-Yugoslav immigrants like himself after Melania Trump's speech. this is ugly dumb.

everyone can feel oppressed if not accurately represented and you can never please everyone. what if Ruffalo cast a trans woman and trans people hated it? that is why I think we should give no ****s about who plays who. ultimately, it's plain whiny.

[aaronyoji 2,054]

4 minutes ago, JDi said:

I'm not saying I don't get it.

but what for the analogy I suggested? Germanic people had the best standard of living on Earth for a 1000 years which is something they partly owe the Balkan people who guarded the gates to Europe and paid with their own identity (nationality, language, religion and even offspring) so how come Nikola Tesla's ancestors have no identity to pay our respects to? not oppressed enough? not currently an issue? there were tons of xenophobic comments directed at ex-Yugoslav immigrants like himself after Melania Trump's speech. this is ugly dumb.

everyone can feel oppressed if not accurately represented and you can never please everyone. what if Ruffalo cast a trans woman and trans people hated it? that is why I think we should give no ****s about who plays who. ultimately, it's plain whiny.

because like the video that lionhearted posted, the conversation can then be switched from "a cis man playing a trans woman convincingly", to, "does this trans actress give justice to this character who also is trans?" it becomes less about the gender and more about the character, because a trans actor is automatically gonna know the experiences of a trans character, then the task lies in the portrayal of them relative to the story/script. idk if that made more sense but yeah...  

i can't speak for trans people, but being gay+mixed race myself, if there was a movie made about me and my experiences, would i want some straight white guy executing, deluding, and basically representing my whole community with their portrayal, leading people to believe that i've had the same life as someone like matt bomer?? no. i wouldn't. 

[JDi 1,495]

16 minutes ago, Bebe said:

lol, honestly you're not even making a point you're just asserting things.

Yes, it's important to recognise present oppression and disadvantages and actively work to counter them. Your solution only seems to benefit white, cisgendered actors. Your solution to the problem of a lack of trans visibility and a lack of trans roles is "Well let's keep doing what we have always done and hiring cisgendered people to play trans characters! That will somehow lead to more opportunities for trans actors!"

Like, no. Straight, white, male, able bodied actors can basically play any role they choose. Others don't have the same opportunity, Matt Bomer wouldn't be struggling to find roles suitable for a white, cisgendered male actor if he didn't get this role - there are plenty of trans men and women who act and who would love to get considered for a fraction of the amount of the roles actors like Matt Bomer can get considered for.

Matt Bomer doesn't need to worry about a trans woman pretending to be cis male and taking the role of a hunky, white male lead. It isn't an equal scenario. It would be nice if Hollywood gave the parts of trans people to actual trans people as often as they give the parts of cis gendered people to actual cis gendered people.

yes I am not making a point because I already made it.

I'm not as deep into this as you are. I'd rather not be. blame it on the past few years of mass cultural misguidance. remember what the Dalai Lama told Gaga? look at it from a distance. when I do, I see whining and attention whores and very good actors getting cast in big roles. sorry if that makes me seem cold. blame that one on my bitch avi

you can't convince me there's even an ounce of ignorance to my opinion. it's my point of view.

(and I don't even disagree with most of what you had to say in this thread.)

[Bebe 17,094]

2 minutes ago, JDi said:

yes I am not making a point because I already made it.

I'm not as deep into this as you are. I'd rather not be. blame it on the past few years of mass cultural misguidance. remember what the Dalai Lama told Gaga? look at it from a distance. when I do, I see whining and attention whores and very good actors getting cast in big roles. sorry if that makes me seem cold. blame that one on my bitch avi

you can't convince me there's even an ounce of ignorance to my opinion. it's my point of view.

(and I don't even disagree with most of what you had to say in this thread.)

When I look at it from a distance I still don't see whining attention whores tbh  

[JDi 1,495]

7 minutes ago, aaronyoji said:

because like the video that lionhearted posted, the conversation can then be switched from "a cis man playing a trans woman convincingly", to, "does this trans actress give justice to this character who also is trans?" it becomes less about the gender and more about the character, because a trans actor is automatically gonna know the experiences of a trans character, then the task lies in the portrayal of them relative to the story/script. idk if that made more sense but yeah...  

i can't speak for trans people, but being gay+mixed race myself, if there was a movie made about me and my experiences, would i want some straight white guy executing, deluding, and basically representing my whole community with their portrayal, leading people to believe that i've had the same life as someone like matt bomer?? no. i wouldn't. 

I absolutely get you.

but you need to realize an actor getting consumed with a role that's got nothing to do with his identity is partly what's responsible for the beauty of the cinematic creation. recreation is less than art.