Men have less freedom of sexual expression in media

[RadioIsOurs 13,876]

I have a made a similar thread to this, and there were pretty good debates there about the portrayal of sexuality in pop culture. There are many people who feel that women have just as much, if not lesser, sexual freedom in media than men. To that, my respond to you is this:

This video, KILLED his career. You can see most of the comments are about how 'gay' he is. I don't care if you think his dancing is terrible and cheesy. If a woman does it, she would get none of the criticisms he got. Case in point, Kanye's new video. And you might say that men and women express sexuality differently, and that what he's doing is pretty emasculating, and to that, I would say that a female artist can act masculine or kiss girls in her videos, but she would also not get even as much judgement for that. 

You have to admit, society no longer views women's sexuality as sacred and needing to be closeted. In fact, society now encourages women to be even more sexual, a large part of it only because men just crave for it. But men are told that they can only portray their sexuality in a dominating and masculine way. If he dares portray something more than that, he would automatically be called 'gay', even in an age when LGBT is more accepted than ever. 

Update: i got blocked for calling out a user who claimed he used the word 'gay' to describe 'lameness'...

[The Surrealist 27,470]

5 minutes ago, RainbowBlonde said:

But men are told that they can only portray the sexuality in a dominating and masculine way.

Yep. Jesus, being a fan of Gaga automatically means you are gay in society, even some of GGD thinks so. 

I hate it. I hope we will have a Male artist like Gaga someday, who is not gay.

[Bebe 17,094]

Tbh I feel like I have more sexual freedom as a gay man at times.

Obviously there are bigots out there that will deny I'm gay and say it's a choice, but in general I feel like if I talk about my past sexual experiences with women people will accept that as me experimenting with my sexuality and not question me identifying as gay.

I don't think it's quite the same for straight men, if they talk about past sexual experiences with men the assumption is that they are secretly gay - their sexuality is immediately questioned. Same thing for lesbian women really, I know a lot of lesbian women get the whole "How would you know if you haven't tried the D before" or "You just haven't experienced the right D yet" spiel a lot.

 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

I don't see the battle as man vs woman as I do top vs bottom.

It's sad that men are punished for behaving like bottoms yet are rewarded when they act like a top.

[RadioIsOurs 13,876]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

Tbh I feel like I have more sexual freedom as a gay man at times.

Obviously there are bigots out there that will deny I'm gay and say it's a choice, but in general I feel like if I talk about my past sexual experiences with women people will accept that as me experimenting with my sexuality and not question me identifying as gay.

I don't think it's quite the same for straight men, if they talk about past sexual experiences with men the assumption is that they are secretly gay - their sexuality is immediately questioned. Same thing for lesbian women really, I know a lot of lesbian women get the whole "How would you know if you haven't tried the D before" or "You just haven't experienced the right D yet" spiel a lot.

 

I do feel like this might be because gays are already seen as less 'masculine', and therefore society already kinda kicked them out of the equation, since they are already gay to begin with. If an openly gay guy is the one dancing in the video, people would just be like 'oh well, he's gay', and the homophobes would still comment the same thing. 

[T3ARS 4,132]

I completely agree. Reading your thoughts immediately remind me of the Troye Siven V Magazine. I can't understand that in this day and age where being LGBTQ is supposed to be accepted, at least in western cultures, we have him pose with a semi-naked women in a sexual position and not question why as an openly gay male he has to put on a front. I understand that the V magazine was supposed to celebrate all of them but they could have had Troye in something that was true to his character. He is openly gay and is very proud of his Identity and yet he still has to abide to the hetero normative culture.

Looking back on male artist in the 70's and 80's is very interesting because they were more experimental not only in their music but in their choice of fashion. I don't think we will ever see a male artist express themselves the way Prince or KISS did because men still follow the rules and expectation of a society that fears gender-fluidity and vulnerability from men. 

[Bebe 17,094]

Just now, RainbowBlonde said:

I do feel like this might be because gays are already seen as less 'masculine', and therefore society already kinda kicked them out of the equation, since they are already gay to begin with. If an openly gay guy is the one dancing in the video, people would just be like 'oh well, he's gay', and the homophobes would still comment the same thing. 

Yeah true, I mean gay men still have to battle with homophobia, but I do think that sense of sexual freedom is something we can hold on to. I think gay men can be a little more open to expressing themselves differently in terms of gender and sexual experimentation because that shining light of masculinity has already been dimmed in the eyes of people

A straight guy acting femme, taking on different gender roles or experimenting sexually is essentially going to have his pristine masculine image damaged. An openly gay man doesn't have to worry about a certain standard of masculinity any more, he can afford to experiment with his voice, actions, gestures and fashion without the fear of his identity being questioned or ridiculed. People can't really be like "omg he is such a secret homo".

I can scream "Yaaaaaassssss!! Bish werk it!" in the middle of a party and nobody would think twice (I do get a little more flamboyant when i'm drunk) but I could never see my straight friends being able to let loose to the same degree.

[BloodyJudas 2,758]

You have made a good point ,man I agree with your opinion regarding the perception of men and women in the music /film industry. Take notice that no male singer/performer has released as sexually tentalazing and provocative music videos like Lady Gaga  Rihanna or Nicki Minaj. I cannot imagine Zayn or Bruno Mars singing about kissing a guy and liking it. Katy Perry did that, it stirred up a controversy but no one took it seriously. If Zayn did something similar, he would be called names I haven't seen a male pop singer shooting a video like "Alejandro" ,"S&M" or "Anaconda".Sometimes I think that being a lesbian is not always taken seriously and it does not get as much hate as being gay. There are some double standards. If a girl walks hand in hand with a girl, it is acceptable and not that much frowned upon but if a regular person catches sight of two men holding hands ,they are immediately the center of the attention and you know the reactions of the majority of people

Many people want a guy to look like a typical ,masculine , dominating guy ,but women are to strip themselves and be at beck and call of a man. I am a gay man myself and I hate the fact that women are still regarded as inferior to men.
 

[NewUsername 11,424]

Because we live in a heteronormative world where hetero cis guys who like hot chicks are the priviliged. So, as you point out, 'gay sexual expression (male)' is looked upon negatively, less than 'female gay or straight sexual expression', because the latter is "so hot!" for hetero cis guys.

[BloodyJudas 2,758]

Lady Gaga does not beat about the bush. She sees the double standards and she has always been trying to break the mold and push the envelope. She has made some really good points.  Here are her words which you can find in the video posted below

An interviewer" What's your biggest thrill of your career so far?"

Gaga "The gay community. Cause I love them so much. Cause they don't ask me questions like that. Cuz they love sexual ,strong women who speak their mind. You see ,if I was a guy and I was sitting here with a cigarette in my hand grabbing my crotch and talking about how I make music cuz  l love fast cars  and ****ing girls, you'd call me a rockstar. But when I do it in my music and  in my videos because I'm a female because I make pop music, you are judgmental and you say it is distracting. I'm just a rockstar".

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE4L7SI-SwA

[420 1,042]

Sexism occurs in every group of people in different ways.

If a man says a woman is so sexy and doesn't take his eyes off of her, he's a creepy pervert.

If a woman or a gay guy caresses a shirtless man on live TV, it's funny.

If a woman twerks while wearing tiny underwear, she's a slut.

If a man take a selfie shirtless with treasure trails, he's sexy.

So many things to discuss about sexism, even in 'developed' countries.

 

[Bebe 17,094]

21 minutes ago, BloodyJudas said:

You have made a good point ,man I agree with your opinion regarding the perception of men and women in the music /film industry. Take notice that no male singer/performer has released as sexually tentalazing and provocative music videos like Lady Gaga  Rihanna or Nicki Minaj. I cannot imagine Zayn or Bruno Mars singing about kissing a guy and liking it. Katy Perry did that, it stirred up a controversy but no one took it seriously. If Zayn did something similar, he would be called names I haven't seen a male pop singer shooting a video like "Alejandro" ,"S&M" or "Anaconda".Sometimes I think that being a lesbian is not always taken seriously and it does not get as much hate as being gay. There are some double standards. If a girl walks hand in hand with a girl, it is acceptable and not that much frowned upon but if a regular person catches sight of two men holding hands ,they are immediately the center of the attention and you know the reactions of the majority of people

Many people want a guy to look like a typical ,masculine , dominating guy ,but women are to strip themselves and be at beck and call of a man. I am a gay man myself and I hate the fact that women are still regarded as inferior to men.
 

This is such a small part of your total post but your point on Katy Perry's I kissed a girl and how Zayne couldn't do something similar reminds me of when I was a kid, i would have been 12 cause it was 2006, and this song was popular in Australia.

It's such a bad song, but at the time I loved it. Whenever it came on I savoured the part where he sang "Kissing girls, kissing boys it's all the same - but I don't care". It was just such a flippant, throwaway line that I loved it.

Before then all I had encountered in the media about gay men was generally a joke. It was like "Haha he is gay" or something like that, same in the playground. As a kid who kinda knew he liked other boys I thought it was so cool and freeing to hear some guy sing about kissing a boy as if it was such a non event.

It's weird seeing lesbianism treated so differently. There was the Madonna/Britney/Xtina kiss and there was Katy Perry later singing she kissed a girl. Because it's appealing to men, these lesbian moments have always been treated in such an erotic way and in a way where lesbianism hasn't been treated as a legitimate sexuality.

It's almost the reverse problem. Here I was as a kid like "Omg he sang about kissing boys like it didn't matter" while there was probably a whole bunch of lesbians wishing for a song or something in the media that depicted more to lesbianism than a naughty kiss. To me such a flippant line was validation that it was okay and potentially even cool to kiss boys, while for a lesbian to hear another flippant line about a girl kissing another girl it would probably feel like exploitation. 

It was cool for me to hear that boys kissing boys didn't matter, while lesbian girls probably wanted some validation that lesbian kisses did matter - that it was actually a romantic interaction removed from the heteronormative male gaze.

[RadioIsOurs 13,876]

14 minutes ago, 420 said:

Sexism occurs in every group of people in different ways.

If a man says a woman is so sexy and doesn't take his eyes off of her, he's a creepy pervert.

If a woman or a gay guy caresses a shirtless man on live TV, it's funny.

If a woman twerks while wearing tiny underwear, she's a slut.

If a man take a selfie shirtless with treasure trails, he's sexy.

So many things to discuss about sexism, even in 'developed' countries.

 

'If a woman or a gay guy caresses a shirtless man on live TV, it's funny.'

And the underlying notion is that, women are seen as weaker, and therefore have 'privileges' to tease men's sexuality. But it's all done in comedic fashion. A men wouldn't caress a woman on live TV the same way because he would have to do it with power and full domination. 

'If a woman twerks while wearing tiny underwear, she's a slut.'

And if a man does the same thing, he's a *******. 

'If a man take a selfie shirtless with treasure trails, he's sexy.'

Women do the same thing all the time too... Criticisms come when she does it in a 'submissive' way, unlike how the men do it in a dominating way.

[ARTGOD 3,266]

Well i think both men and women are encouraged to sexualize themselves in their music (although its optional in men, in women is seen as a necessity in some cases), because sex sells, as long as its in a traditional, hetero way: women in bikinis dancing in the beach and shirtless macho men. Any other expression of sexuality outside of that is treated differently, because it's not the norm and what sells. I do have to say that lesbianism is an exception, because of the male gaze and all of that, so if a girl wants to f***k other girls in a music video its not gonna be the same type of scandal as if it were a man with other men.

[StrawberryBlond 14,874]

You are quite right. Men may have more opportunities in general but the depth of those opportunities can be surprisingly shallow. For example, women may have fewer chances in film, but at least she can portrayed in a variety of ways, with a wide variety of personality traits, many of which are deemed acceptable for women to be. Men may have more opportunities in film, but he's limited to roles that portray him as nothing less than manly if he wants to keep his career. While women are encouraged to be submissive, they can totally rock dominant too, plenty of men are turned on by that. But submissive isn't considered a good look on a man. Women have the choice between make up or not, men just...not. Women have a wide variety of clothing options available and can even dress in traditionally masculine attire while still being considered totally feminine. Men have an extremely narrow range of clothing options and would be stripped of all masculinity forever if they wore female clothes. A straight woman can openly confess to a girl crush without any backlash and might even get some straight male approval for percieved bisexuality. But if a straight man admits to a man crush, he'd better hope everyone in the vicinity is female, seeing as they're more open towards that.

The Billy Squier video is truly a wonder to behold. My initial thought when I first saw it wasn't that he was gay (a lot of rockers in that period looked like this and made music like this) but that it was all an ironic joke. After some research, I found that some people thought the same. But it turned out, he was serious with it for the most part but insists the director screwed him over somewhat on some counts. But he could have just played it off as a joke. A lot of rockers do shocking things that challenge gender norms, after all. Poison dressed as women on the cover art for their 1986 debut album, Look What The Cat Dragged In and they frequently cross dressed. It wasn't unheard of the 80's to do this kinda stuff. But clearly, not everyone could get away with it.