Beyoncé, Rihanna & more: 23 ways to killed if your black in America

[Harry 26,836]

34 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

No, I'm just commenting on someone in the music industry specifically because on this forum, that is where the majority of our conversation goes and as I obviously review music, I'm very much into what people in the industry are saying. Racism sticks out in such a racially diverse business, so naturally, I'll want to comment on it. Of course, in politics, there's a lot of racists but I don't devote too much of my time to politicians as I can't stand them and find it hard to show support for any of them. So, if one of them's racist, I acknowledge it, but I won't bother stating it everywhere I go. But music, the industry that I'm actually passionate about, if someone's racist in that, I'll really have something to say. I'll rant about Trump or Farage (plus any number of Republicans) if pushed but I'd still rather not as politicians aren't my favourite topic. Mostly everyone knows what they're about and hates them anyway, so what new insight could I provide? As, by your own admission, Azealia is an indie artist, so knowledge about the extent of her racism is lost on a lot of people, so I aim to call it out for what it is and make people wake up to it if they haven't already.

Of course I realise that the situation is worse in America and that's why I suggest our British ways as a potential solution to the problem, seeing as we seem to handle things better. Sometimes other countries do stuff better and we can learn from them. It makes sense to ponder: "This issue that we have isn't as big in this country, let's see what it is they're doing that could cause things to be the way it is and try to replicate it?"

Ok, good point. I'll go easier on you for your choice of words in this case.

Thank you for acknowledging your previous comments and now seeing how they could be misconstrued. I really appreciate that. To hear you say "I hear and understand you" is so good to hear. And now comes the bit that I wondered if you'd say next - the concept that I won't educate myself on racism. I assure you, I've been doing that extensively for a good number of years. That's why I could quote statistics. I do listen to black people and acknowledge their way of looking at things but I'm also not blind to facts either. I think every cause should be looked at fairly. I critique feminism all the time and point out holes in certain feminist theories and call out women who are saying something that seems ironically anti feminist. Because I believe that you've got to strike the right balance and be fair and an oppressed group cannot rise if it can't address problems within itself. If I see something within feminism that's halting our progress, I call it out. I just apply the same idea to race issues. I'm sure you can agree that a cause can benefit from outsider opinion. You're a male feminist, after all. Knowing what men think of our movement can be a good test of how the world in general sees us and makes us acknowledge any problems in our community that could be addressed. In order for us all to get along, we've got to merge all our opinions from all sides and wade in on discussion. Notice that while I've pointed out things that you could be unknowingly sexist about, I've never denied you the right to critique anything in feminism? Because I value men's opinions just as much as women's and they have every right to question things to do with feminism, so long as they promise to be respectful about it. I see no problem with critiquing certain issues in an oppressed group, so long as you go about it as respectfully as possible. That's what I think I'm doing with race issues. Just because I'm addressing harsh realities doesn't mean that I don't have compassion. No, I will never truly experience what it's like to be black but that doesn't mean that I have no right to put forward an opinion even so.

Please understand that I am 100% supportive of issues that don't directly affect me. Naturally, I am very vocal about issues that do. That's the birthright of everyone. But I am happy to discuss issues affecting everyone, I do it all the time in my own head, even if I don't put it online. Other people fascinate me, I want to question their personalities and motives and work out what their deal is and I also have compassion for any struggles. Going through some of my own, I don't want other people to go through them either. I am not dismissing negative experiences from the black community, I'm just offering a different perspective on the issue. That doesn't make me cold hearted or racist or just not getting it. The world relies on people thinking differently, that's how we can come up with solutions to problems. But you make a good point when you say that we can tell when someone's discriminating against us for a specific reason. However, we sometimes get it wrong. You've told me that when I accused you of sexism that I was wrong. Doesn't that just undercut what you were saying about if the person involves says discrimination happened, then it did? You said so yourself that I've misunderstood your comments as sexist before. So, you're acknowledging that our gut feelings of discrimination can sometimes be wrong? That there can be other ways to interpret it? Why does this theory no longer apply when there's a racism accusation?

I do understand institutionalised racism and the prejudices faced by others, I was just quoting official crime statistics. Whatever we think of them, they're the facts. You can just pick and choose facts that suit your beliefs. But admittedly, I'd really like to be educated on something - please inform me of why blacks are apparently set up to fail (specifically in education). Because no matter how much research I've done, I can't find any evidence of this, considering that racism is a crime in educational institutions and there are programs that help minorities like affirmative action. And you can be refused a job for the most trivial of reasons, no matter your race. So, I am always baffled when people say blacks are set up to fail. But if you can educate me about this, I'm all ears. I am not trying to victim blame, honestly. And I already said that I'm against racial profiling and innocent murders. And I really don't think comparing the situation to rape is the same thing. If crime is high, how does it get reduced? When people stop doing crime. When will gun crime go down? When tighter gun control is in place. Yes, I do realise why some people find this kind of thing troubling coming from a white person, but that's just the thing. I'm sure people would be a lot more accepting if it came from someone of colour. As if the opinion is more credible when it comes from them even though it's the exact same. For what it's worth, I'd give the exact same response to whites that are getting shot by police - stop committing crime and you'll be statistically less likely to be shot. So, why is that opinion so bad when it's sad about blacks? The double standard gets to me. I want equal treatment for all and that's why I hold everyone to the same standard. That doesn't mean that we can't tackle racist perceptions simultaneously. Surely advocating for change on both sides: "blacks - stop committing crime, cops - stop shooting blacks for no reason" would result in a much better outcome than just focusing on ending one side of the problem? Look, I feel for all these people who got shot, regardless of the situation. I don't want anyone to be shot. But that doesn't mean that I just shut myself off to the realities of their situations, so matter how harsh they are. Look at the post I made above yours and watch the video of the guy who breaks down the reasons behind the black killings listed in the 23 ways video. This proves that there was more motivations behind what the cops did rather than just racism. Could it have partly played a role? Maybe. But clearly, it wasn't the only one.

I knew you'd probably find my response confusing. But that's because you still seem to struggle with this concept of having a complex opinion and juggling between compassion and facing up to harsh reality. You can be caring while still admitting facts. You can also brush the facts aside for a moment and just focus on the caring. You can do both. I think everyone should pitch in with this problem of racial oppression. It is not just white's problem to fix. We're sharing a country, contributing to a culture, contributing to stereotypes. Altogether, we've played a role in making oppression carry on. By working together, we can end it. I think the solution to this is not in shaming whites but talking about situations calmly and fairly and weighing everything up between us and all and deciding how we, as a country, will fix it. That goes for everyone, oppressed and privileged.

oh my god. let me reply to this after my next few busy days when i'm less FURIOUS about this line: "blacks - stop committing crime, cops - stop shooting blacks for no reason" the mass generalisation of all black people. unbelievable. the innocent victims of cold blooded murder bundled by you together with criminals because they share the same colour skin... how isn't this prejudice? i'm at loss for words.

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

oh my god. let me reply to this after my next few busy days when i'm less FURIOUS about this line: "blacks - stop committing crime, cops - stop shooting blacks for no reason" the mass generalisation of all black people. unbelievable. the innocent victims of cold blooded murder bundled by you together with criminals because they share the same colour skin... how isn't this prejudice? i'm at loss for words.

That line was supposed to be overly simplistic, seeing as you seem to prefer simplifying things right down. Of course it's overly generalised, but when you're struggling to get people to understand what you're saying, simplifying things right down is going to end up happening. I notice something very odd here - you're annoyed at me for generalising blacks but not generalising cops. You've consistently proved that you're only annoyed when there's apparent prejudice towards an oppressed group, as opposed to being annoyed about prejudice in general. It really doesn't help your case when we're already discussing how BLM only seems to care about blacks getting shot when it's a white person doing the shooting. Certainly in the last few months, I've been made very aware that people's offense when it comes to generalising is saved for people of colour, but whites just have it coming. You know that not all cops shoot innocent people and you also know that not all cops are white, so why are you not criticising me for my generalisation of cops? Decide if you're against generalisation or not and stick to it across the board. I'd use the same phrase for white on white crime: whites - stop committing crime. And you wouldn't have a problem with that. Why is it only a problem when it's blacks being accused? Of course I don't want to lump in the criminals with the innocents, but you're the one wanting to keep things simple. And when you keep things simple, you end up generalising. This is why I encourage people not to simplify, it ends up in messes like this. But how about this "black criminals - stop committing crime. Corrupt cops - stop shooting innocent people." There you go - no generalising of any group. Does that message sit with you better?

[inuborg 4,135]

Yikes  

[Harry 26,836]

On 7/22/2016 at 4:27 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

That line was supposed to be overly simplistic, seeing as you seem to prefer simplifying things right down. Of course it's overly generalised, but when you're struggling to get people to understand what you're saying, simplifying things right down is going to end up happening. I notice something very odd here - you're annoyed at me for generalising blacks but not generalising cops. You've consistently proved that you're only annoyed when there's apparent prejudice towards an oppressed group, as opposed to being annoyed about prejudice in general. It really doesn't help your case when we're already discussing how BLM only seems to care about blacks getting shot when it's a white person doing the shooting. Certainly in the last few months, I've been made very aware that people's offense when it comes to generalising is saved for people of colour, but whites just have it coming. You know that not all cops shoot innocent people and you also know that not all cops are white, so why are you not criticising me for my generalisation of cops? Decide if you're against generalisation or not and stick to it across the board. I'd use the same phrase for white on white crime: whites - stop committing crime. And you wouldn't have a problem with that. Why is it only a problem when it's blacks being accused? Of course I don't want to lump in the criminals with the innocents, but you're the one wanting to keep things simple. And when you keep things simple, you end up generalising. This is why I encourage people not to simplify, it ends up in messes like this. But how about this "black criminals - stop committing crime. Corrupt cops - stop shooting innocent people." There you go - no generalising of any group. Does that message sit with you better?

omg... because the blacks are the victims here but you're telling them to do something (which also happens to be completely unrelated) to avoid being shot at. victim blaming. the cops aren't the victims. you're so afraid of just addressing the issue and the obvious racism that you can't help but bring up a way to criticise black people in the same breath. have some perspective. you're so short sighted and it's idiotic and frustrating.

[holy scheisse 20,326]

On 7/13/2016 at 1:53 PM, Gaga Monster said:

But it is rare for cops to kill innocent blacks. Most incidents last year were all justified because they attacked the cops and didn't follow directions and most of the cops were found innocent because they saw all evidence. The incident last week was disgusting, the cop should have never done that and they should be found guilty. But cops killing blacks is not a big issue

Ha. youre terrible shsould be ashamed of yourseelf for actively silencing the voices and rejecting the strife of a community you clearly do not belong to or even understand. no better than a homophobe. if you were black i am positive youd changeg that bold statement. its a shame you cant empathize, though, and that youd most likely only see their perspective if you were one of them. a

who the **** writes "the killings last year were justified"... what?! 

[holy scheisse 20,326]

On 7/22/2016 at 11:27 AM, StrawberryBlond said:

That line was supposed to be overly simplistic, seeing as you seem to prefer simplifying things right down. Of course it's overly generalised, but when you're struggling to get people to understand what you're saying, simplifying things right down is going to end up happening. I notice something very odd here - you're annoyed at me for generalising blacks but not generalising cops. You've consistently proved that you're only annoyed when there's apparent prejudice towards an oppressed group, as opposed to being annoyed about prejudice in general. It really doesn't help your case when we're already discussing how BLM only seems to care about blacks getting shot when it's a white person doing the shooting. Certainly in the last few months, I've been made very aware that people's offense when it comes to generalising is saved for people of colour, but whites just have it coming. You know that not all cops shoot innocent people and you also know that not all cops are white, so why are you not criticising me for my generalisation of cops? Decide if you're against generalisation or not and stick to it across the board. I'd use the same phrase for white on white crime: whites - stop committing crime. And you wouldn't have a problem with that. Why is it only a problem when it's blacks being accused? Of course I don't want to lump in the criminals with the innocents, but you're the one wanting to keep things simple. And when you keep things simple, you end up generalising. This is why I encourage people not to simplify, it ends up in messes like this. But how about this "black criminals - stop committing crime. Corrupt cops - stop shooting innocent people." There you go - no generalising of any group. Does that message sit with you better?

ha because you should only be annoyd about prejudice towards oppressed groups.. because its unfair, and in this case, racist. why should anybody feel bad for groups with all the power (cops, whites) im white from a conservative area and despite the ignorance surrounding me in my communities, evidently including the LGBT community, i dont bat an eyelash at the stories about cops dying. you know why? the cop signed up for a dangerous profession.  the cop chose to perform a service for all people by protecting them. with that role can come a cost.

but the people mentioned in this video? cops murdering people for wearing hoodies, selling cd's, driving in the car, having car problems, living in their apartment... its just terrifying that the police can really do whatever the fck they want beyond serving the public good, and that is ever so clear. 

when power is systematic and ingrained in society ( of my country, maybe not your country since you use UK English spelling) nobody should even feel bad for the ones who benefit from that power dynamic, militarized cops. they should protect and serve at ALL times, there should not be a phenomena of innocent death after innocent deat, especially when its linked at a higher proportion to a particular racce that our country has history of mistreatment to the most extreme degree. the ratio of these deaths being black over any other race has its implications. the cops must change, an entire race of people should not change... cops are militarized on a national level and encouraged to use force, racial profile, etc among other things. they are a corrupt government-backed organization who faces little to no consequences when they make a mistake (like shooting black INNOCENT people). do you know how many cases have accrued in the US where the victim was black and not a criminal or doing anything illegal at all? you are trying SO hard strawberry blonde to silence the voices of oppressed people.

 

this video was made by dozens of successful, influential cellebrities bringing awareness to a real issue. perhaps its not real for you and your reality, but it is for an entire community of people. so just fall back and stop making this thread about the debate, or attacking your opponents rhetoric and poking holes in their argument. this is fact by now and those who try and fight it arent anything but ignorant and dare i say more simply racist.

 

ggd will always let me down.

 

[holy scheisse 20,326]

wellp im clearly over a week late to this WOndERFUL thread, and everybody should be grateful i wasn't here when it was poppin 

[YCHofficial 5,293]

I did not understand Rihanna 

[teo 609]

Most of these situations are such an unnecessary tragedies that it's sad. The US definitely has a serious problem with their police and the use of excessive power, but sadly I don't think there is any quick solution to this problem. They'll have to radically change the way their officers are being trained and then wait over time for the new ones to naturally replace the old. This would be a very long period of time, but idk why they haven't started yet. 

[Thomas P 18,377]

30 minutes ago, teo said:

Most of these situations are such an unnecessary tragedies that it's sad. The US definitely has a serious problem with their police and the use of excessive power, but sadly I don't think there is any quick solution to this problem. They'll have to radically change the way their officers are being trained and then wait over time for the new ones to naturally replace the old. This would be a very long period of time, but idk why they haven't started yet. 

Because for some ****ed up reason they don't see any of this as a problem. So many ppl (including a few on this sote) are conpletley oblivious to the fact that there actually is a real problem that's rooted at the training. It's sad to watch this in Canada, where things are at least a little more controlled.

[Guest]

On 13.7.2016 at 7:39 PM, Gaga Monster said:

It is not as big of a problem as people make it out to be. Most people who get killed either attack the police or don't follow directions. Most police are good people who just want to help people

It amazes me how you, someone who isn't black, is speaking for a community that is being targeted for absolutely no reason. Maybe try to see things from their perspectives instead of making the issue about something that it's not. 

[teo 609]

3 hours ago, Thomas P said:

Because for some ****ed up reason they don't see any of this as a problem. So many ppl (including a few on this sote) are conpletley oblivious to the fact that there actually is a real problem that's rooted at the training. It's sad to watch this in Canada, where things are at least a little more controlled.

I try not to be mad at people for not getting it, cause if you're not from America like me and you don't really research the issue it can be really weird for you. Like in my country our police is bad by Western European standards and yet I can't remember the last time the police shot someone let alone kill them. Last time I think it happened it was an armed robbery and they were shooting at the police with an automatic gun so one officer shot the guy in the leg and he was suspended and there was an investigation whether or not it was justified ect. And when I see videos from the US where the police act like porfessional assassins it's really surreal how people are ok with it. I don't know how things are in Canada tbh though I never heard bad things about the police there. But it is definitely a training problem and of course the US is a gun country so I think this is a huge factor too.

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

omg... because the blacks are the victims here but you're telling them to do something (which also happens to be completely unrelated) to avoid being shot at. victim blaming. the cops aren't the victims. you're so afraid of just addressing the issue and the obvious racism that you can't help but bring up a way to criticise black people in the same breath. have some perspective. you're so short sighted and it's idiotic and frustrating.

Yes, there are some cases where the blacks are the victims, but a lot of cases where they are not. I notice that when a white person is shot by police, there's no major outrage, even when the person was innocent. For all that we're told that whites are valued more by society, I see justification after justification for why their death is sad but that's just life. But if a black person gets shot, it's a tragedy. Police brutality affects everyone. A New York study conducted in 2011 actually found that despite whites only making up 3% of criminal shooters in the state and despite none of them firing on police in the entire year of 2011, 44% of them were shot by police that year, higher than any other criminal shooter from another racial group, who made up far bigger percentages on both on number of shooters and shooting at police. Yet, I still wouldn't call that racist against whites. It's clear that's it's an issue affecting everyone and police need to be retrained to deal with conflict better and gun laws need to change. I'm not calling the cops the victims, all I am saying is that they're not all racist, not all of them are white and that their reasons for making a bad decision on the job can be down to being all-round corrupt, not just racist. If there is a genuine case of a racist decision by cops, I'm more than happy to defend the victim. But if they were committing crime at the time, then there's questions I want to ask before racism comes into play. That's not being short sighted, that's the exact opposite. Corrupt cops are a problem that plague society and to just focus on their treatment of one group doesn't make sense. 

5 hours ago, holyscheisse said:

ha because you should only be annoyd about prejudice towards oppressed groups.. because its unfair, and in this case, racist. why should anybody feel bad for groups with all the power (cops, whites) im white from a conservative area and despite the ignorance surrounding me in my communities, evidently including the LGBT community, i dont bat an eyelash at the stories about cops dying. you know why? the cop signed up for a dangerous profession.  the cop chose to perform a service for all people by protecting them. with that role can come a cost.

but the people mentioned in this video? cops murdering people for wearing hoodies, selling cd's, driving in the car, having car problems, living in their apartment... its just terrifying that the police can really do whatever the fck they want beyond serving the public good, and that is ever so clear. 

when power is systematic and ingrained in society ( of my country, maybe not your country since you use UK English spelling) nobody should even feel bad for the ones who benefit from that power dynamic, militarized cops. they should protect and serve at ALL times, there should not be a phenomena of innocent death after innocent deat, especially when its linked at a higher proportion to a particular racce that our country has history of mistreatment to the most extreme degree. the ratio of these deaths being black over any other race has its implications. the cops must change, an entire race of people should not change... cops are militarized on a national level and encouraged to use force, racial profile, etc among other things. they are a corrupt government-backed organization who faces little to no consequences when they make a mistake (like shooting black INNOCENT people). do you know how many cases have accrued in the US where the victim was black and not a criminal or doing anything illegal at all? you are trying SO hard strawberry blonde to silence the voices of oppressed people.

 

this video was made by dozens of successful, influential cellebrities bringing awareness to a real issue. perhaps its not real for you and your reality, but it is for an entire community of people. so just fall back and stop making this thread about the debate, or attacking your opponents rhetoric and poking holes in their argument. this is fact by now and those who try and fight it arent anything but ignorant and dare i say more simply racist.

 

ggd will always let me down.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't feel bad for oppressed groups. I'm saying that we should feel annoyed about any prejudice happening to anyone. That doesn't mean we can't focus in on the issues happening to specific groups but at the end of the day, we should realise that some of these issues encapsulate us all. And I don't feel bad for the cops (although they're people too and not all of them are corrupt) but that doesn't mean that we should just say every decision they make is bad without looking at the circumstances. And by the way, cops being shot purely for being cops has been rising lately, while they were doing acts of serving and protecting of their community, like helping a patient into an ambulance or helping a woman gather her belongings. There were also several cops shot while, ironically, protecting BLM supporters at a protest. No one should be killed for any reason, not for their race, and not for the uniform they wear and what that represents to you personally. Ok, yeah, they chose a dangerous profession but that still gives them no reason to be shot for doing nothing. Police may have their corrupt side and all, but when we're in trouble, suddenly, we need to call them and want their protection. It's a double edged sword, I know, but if you want a safe society, you're going to need cops. The key is to train them correctly and weed out problematic ones.

The people mentioned in this video...only about 4 or 5 of them (including that bunch of people shot going to bible study, which was done by a mass shooter, not police, which is supposed to be the whole point of the video - police brutality) were completely innocent. And one of them committed suicide. If you actually research all these cases, you'll find out the truth. I posted a video a few posts before where a guy talked through the truth behind each case. Anton Sterling was not shot "for selling CDs." There was a 911 call saying that he was waving a gun around and threatening people outside the store. The police caught him and had to taser him several times and he was still resisting and then they found a gun in his pocket and (although this bit is a matter of opinion), they thought they saw him move his hand toward the gun. Trayvon Martin was not shot "for wearing a hoodie." He was punching a man and bashing his head on the ground. Mario Woods for not shot "for walking away from police." He was waving a knife around in public (and knife wielder at 20 feet away is more dangerous than a gun holder). The ones waving fake guns around? In America, this kind of behavior will get you shot, regardless of your race (seriously, doing that is death wish behaviour in the States and these people in particular wanted people to think the gun was real). Laquan McDonald was not shot "for walking towards police." He was walking towards them with a knife and was repeatedly asked to drop it but refused. Jamar Clark was not shot "for attending a birthday party." He was beating up his girlfriend, bothered the ambulance workers trying to help her to the extent that they had to call the cops and when the cops showed up, he argued with them and reached for their gun. BLM actually made protests over this clear-cut case of criminal behaviour. So yeah, there were some completely innocent ones and some who were in a shades of grey area but there were some flat-out cases of violent criminals.

Of course there must be changes, I'm totally with you on that. I'm just saying that in a lot of cases, things are not always as clear cut as you want to believe. Certainly videos like these perpetuate lies and misrepresentation. Guaranteed if white people did the things that these black victims had been shot for, there wouldn't be memorials made for them and protests made against them. They would either be called out for the crimes they committed or nobody would even bring them up. And there have been innocent white victims who weren't immortalised in such a video like this, narrated by celebrities. And a lot of celebrities who take part in these things are just in it for themselves. They're not actually doing anything to affect change. It's just like when they're the face of charity and urge people to give. They're millionaires and they're asking you to give money! They know this stuff makes them look good and don't care if they misrepresent the real turn of events. So, they're not actually doing anything with their platform that you claim.

I'm not trying to deny there's racism involved. But it would be wrong to insist that it's ALWAYS the case behind EVERY black killing. Let's talk about the ones who weren't committing crime and were unarmed and put their hands in their air but still got shot. That's f****d up racism that needs to change. But defending people who were committing crime and putting officers and citizens lives in danger? That's criminal behaviour that should be dealt with no matter what your race is. Not saying shooting is the answer, but if it does happen, after the fact, do they really need to be misrepresented as an innocent when they weren't? We don't do it for whites, why should we do it for any other race?

[Harry 26,836]

7 hours ago, holyscheisse said:

ha because you should only be annoyd about prejudice towards oppressed groups.. because its unfair, and in this case, racist. why should anybody feel bad for groups with all the power (cops, whites) im white from a conservative area and despite the ignorance surrounding me in my communities, evidently including the LGBT community, i dont bat an eyelash at the stories about cops dying. you know why? the cop signed up for a dangerous profession.  the cop chose to perform a service for all people by protecting them. with that role can come a cost.

but the people mentioned in this video? cops murdering people for wearing hoodies, selling cd's, driving in the car, having car problems, living in their apartment... its just terrifying that the police can really do whatever the fck they want beyond serving the public good, and that is ever so clear. 

when power is systematic and ingrained in society ( of my country, maybe not your country since you use UK English spelling) nobody should even feel bad for the ones who benefit from that power dynamic, militarized cops. they should protect and serve at ALL times, there should not be a phenomena of innocent death after innocent deat, especially when its linked at a higher proportion to a particular racce that our country has history of mistreatment to the most extreme degree. the ratio of these deaths being black over any other race has its implications. the cops must change, an entire race of people should not change... cops are militarized on a national level and encouraged to use force, racial profile, etc among other things. they are a corrupt government-backed organization who faces little to no consequences when they make a mistake (like shooting black INNOCENT people). do you know how many cases have accrued in the US where the victim was black and not a criminal or doing anything illegal at all? you are trying SO hard strawberry blonde to silence the voices of oppressed people.

 

this video was made by dozens of successful, influential cellebrities bringing awareness to a real issue. perhaps its not real for you and your reality, but it is for an entire community of people. so just fall back and stop making this thread about the debate, or attacking your opponents rhetoric and poking holes in their argument. this is fact by now and those who try and fight it arent anything but ignorant and dare i say more simply racist.

 

ggd will always let me down.

 

thank you for articulating this far better than i could

9 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, there are some cases where the blacks are the victims, but a lot of cases where they are not. I notice that when a white person is shot by police, there's no major outrage, even when the person was innocent. For all that we're told that whites are valued more by society, I see justification after justification for why their death is sad but that's just life. But if a black person gets shot, it's a tragedy. Police brutality affects everyone. A New York study conducted in 2011 actually found that despite whites only making up 3% of criminal shooters in the state and despite none of them firing on police in the entire year of 2011, 44% of them were shot by police that year, higher than any other criminal shooter from another racial group, who made up far bigger percentages on both on number of shooters and shooting at police. Yet, I still wouldn't call that racist against whites. It's clear that's it's an issue affecting everyone and police need to be retrained to deal with conflict better and gun laws need to change. I'm not calling the cops the victims, all I am saying is that they're not all racist, not all of them are white and that their reasons for making a bad decision on the job can be down to being all-round corrupt, not just racist. If there is a genuine case of a racist decision by cops, I'm more than happy to defend the victim. But if they were committing crime at the time, then there's questions I want to ask before racism comes into play. That's not being short sighted, that's the exact opposite. Corrupt cops are a problem that plague society and to just focus on their treatment of one group doesn't make sense. 

I'm not saying we shouldn't feel bad for oppressed groups. I'm saying that we should feel annoyed about any prejudice happening to anyone. That doesn't mean we can't focus in on the issues happening to specific groups but at the end of the day, we should realise that some of these issues encapsulate us all. And I don't feel bad for the cops (although they're people too and not all of them are corrupt) but that doesn't mean that we should just say every decision they make is bad without looking at the circumstances. And by the way, cops being shot purely for being cops has been rising lately, while they were doing acts of serving and protecting of their community, like helping a patient into an ambulance or helping a woman gather her belongings. There were also several cops shot while, ironically, protecting BLM supporters at a protest. No one should be killed for any reason, not for their race, and not for the uniform they wear and what that represents to you personally. Ok, yeah, they chose a dangerous profession but that still gives them no reason to be shot for doing nothing. Police may have their corrupt side and all, but when we're in trouble, suddenly, we need to call them and want their protection. It's a double edged sword, I know, but if you want a safe society, you're going to need cops. The key is to train them correctly and weed out problematic ones.

The people mentioned in this video...only about 4 or 5 of them (including that bunch of people shot going to bible study, which was done by a mass shooter, not police, which is supposed to be the whole point of the video - police brutality) were completely innocent. And one of them committed suicide. If you actually research all these cases, you'll find out the truth. I posted a video a few posts before where a guy talked through the truth behind each case. Anton Sterling was not shot "for selling CDs." There was a 911 call saying that he was waving a gun around and threatening people outside the store. The police caught him and had to taser him several times and he was still resisting and then they found a gun in his pocket and (although this bit is a matter of opinion), they thought they saw him move his hand toward the gun. Trayvon Martin was not shot "for wearing a hoodie." He was punching a man and bashing his head on the ground. Mario Woods for not shot "for walking away from police." He was waving a knife around in public (and knife wielder at 20 feet away is more dangerous than a gun holder). The ones waving fake guns around? In America, this kind of behavior will get you shot, regardless of your race (seriously, doing that is death wish behaviour in the States and these people in particular wanted people to think the gun was real). Laquan McDonald was not shot "for walking towards police." He was walking towards them with a knife and was repeatedly asked to drop it but refused. Jamar Clark was not shot "for attending a birthday party." He was beating up his girlfriend, bothered the ambulance workers trying to help her to the extent that they had to call the cops and when the cops showed up, he argued with them and reached for their gun. BLM actually made protests over this clear-cut case of criminal behaviour. So yeah, there were some completely innocent ones and some who were in a shades of grey area but there were some flat-out cases of violent criminals.

Of course there must be changes, I'm totally with you on that. I'm just saying that in a lot of cases, things are not always as clear cut as you want to believe. Certainly videos like these perpetuate lies and misrepresentation. Guaranteed if white people did the things that these black victims had been shot for, there wouldn't be memorials made for them and protests made against them. They would either be called out for the crimes they committed or nobody would even bring them up. And there have been innocent white victims who weren't immortalised in such a video like this, narrated by celebrities. And a lot of celebrities who take part in these things are just in it for themselves. They're not actually doing anything to affect change. It's just like when they're the face of charity and urge people to give. They're millionaires and they're asking you to give money! They know this stuff makes them look good and don't care if they misrepresent the real turn of events. So, they're not actually doing anything with their platform that you claim.

I'm not trying to deny there's racism involved. But it would be wrong to insist that it's ALWAYS the case behind EVERY black killing. Let's talk about the ones who weren't committing crime and were unarmed and put their hands in their air but still got shot. That's f****d up racism that needs to change. But defending people who were committing crime and putting officers and citizens lives in danger? That's criminal behaviour that should be dealt with no matter what your race is. Not saying shooting is the answer, but if it does happen, after the fact, do they really need to be misrepresented as an innocent when they weren't? We don't do it for whites, why should we do it for any other race?

excuses excuses excuses. black people get shot by police and you suggest they "work on themselves" to avoid it, but the cops get shot and there's "no reason" for it and you stick up for them. but you demonise the black men that were killed and justify their murders. awful. i've just kind of accepted that you won't ever acknowledge your clear prejudices and it's disgusting but i don't know what else to say about it at this point... how can you expect me to not think you're racist

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

On 24/07/2016 at 8:23 PM, Harry said:

excuses excuses excuses. black people get shot by police and you suggest they "work on themselves" to avoid it, but the cops get shot and there's "no reason" for it and you stick up for them. but you demonise the black men that were killed and justify their murders. awful. i've just kind of accepted that you won't ever acknowledge your clear prejudices and it's disgusting but i don't know what else to say about it at this point... how can you expect me to not think you're racist

I'm not trying to make excuses, just putting down the facts at hand. And considering that a white person could get shot for the same things. When cops get shot, it's usually for a malicious reason, they're there to protect people after all, so those who shoot them are guilty. The only reason you'd have for shooting a cop is if you're a criminal. BLM isn't exactly making a good name for itself when they're assaulting cops at riots (especially when said cops are there to protect them while they're protesting) and when they're doing a protest down a busy Manhattan street chanting: "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now." I don't want the death of anyone and I don't support the baying for blood. I don't understand why you think cops lives are meaningless. They're not perfect by any means. Just a few days ago, a black man got shot despite not committing a crime, lying down on the ground and putting his hands up and shouting "don't shoot" and after surviving the incident, he asked the cop why he shot him and he replied "I don't know." So, there obviously are some cops out there who shouldn't be on the job. But at the end of the day, human life is human life and I think everyone's life has a meaning and any death is a shame and pity shouldn't just be reserved for regular civilians. But that doesn't mean I should be disallowed from simply looking into the reasons behind why these incidents happened and work out solutions.

I saw this great video last night. It brought tears to my eyes.

Now, why did this affect me more than the other video? Because this video didn't spread lies and misinformation. Because everyone in the this video was completely innocent. Because it didn't put certain human lives above other human lives. Because it acknowledged that you can get killed for all manner of reasons and there's no way of getting killed that is specific to your race. Actually, the moments that affected me the most where the black ones. I felt more sympathy because the ones depicted here were genuine victims.

This is why I'm not a racist. I have so much compassion in my heart and I feel it for everyone, most of all, victims.