A sunset stroll with Lady Gaga

[Didymus 33,414]

36 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

Edit: I kind of went off-topic  sorry 

Nope, not at all. Not imo at least.

I agree. I just have this.. division in my own mind between the Lady Gaga who I was rooting for from 2008 onwards, and the Lady Gaga I'm observing now. Obviously I can accept that she's just a human being and all you said, but that doesn't really match my earlier understanding of her, and I personally find it a bit confusing how so many fans seem to have no real problem adjusting their viewing of her so drastically.

Well, actually I don't, because I'm sure that has something to do with how little this forum in general cares about discussing her work. It's all about her success and how she's so much better than everyone else in the end, so who cares about anything else, I guess.

I always knew she was out for success and all that, but she could also make brilliant statements about pop culture and identity at the same time, building up this larger than life persona that hid her own person, and at the same time was so much more than that. She'd leave no option but to discuss her work because she was the work. That was what made Lady Gaga a genius. That changed, and that's probably where my frustration comes from. You hit the nail right on the head when you say it feels like Stefani is just stuck with her brand name now.

I wouldn't have cared if she lived a Malibu lifestyle back in 2008/09, because I could trust that her act was together, and was solid. Ever since she tried to convince us she was just a normal person that act started unravelling because you simply can't keep up the idea that your entire life is an artistic expression when you're making a video for Billboard Magazine where you're just stumbling around your Malibu home with your dogs, telling them about your personal life as if that's what we're tuning in for.

But most fans are tuning it for that now, so I guess she won in the end. And I can find satisfaction with other artists, but it's still hard for me to just accept that everything I loved about Lady Gaga has been flushed down the toilet.. by Lady Gaga It was her decision, so then what.. was it her decision to be Lady Gaga in the first place or was that someone else's invention? I don't like that confusion. But anyway, whatevs. I'm still excited for LG5, it will just be a deciding moment for me as a fan. If everything is now going the way she wants to, we'll finally see what she's made of, I guess. And that's when I can make my final judgment.

[Slayer 9,227]

1 hour ago, Didymus said:

Nope, not at all. Not imo at least.

I agree. I just have this.. division in my own mind between the Lady Gaga who I was rooting for from 2008 onwards, and the Lady Gaga I'm observing now. Obviously I can accept that she's just a human being and all you said, but that doesn't really match my earlier understanding of her, and I personally find it a bit confusing how so many fans seem to have no real problem adjusting their viewing of her so drastically.

Well, actually I don't, because I'm sure that has something to do with how little this forum in general cares about discussing her work. It's all about her success and how she's so much better than everyone else in the end, so who cares about anything else, I guess.

I always knew she was out for success and all that, but she could also make brilliant statements about pop culture and identity at the same time, building up this larger than life persona that hid her own person, and at the same time was so much more than that. She'd leave no option but to discuss her work because she was the work. That was what made Lady Gaga a genius. That changed, and that's probably where my frustration comes from. You hit the nail right on the head when you say it feels like Stefani is just stuck with her brand name now.

I wouldn't have cared if she lived a Malibu lifestyle back in 2008/09, because I could trust that her act was together, and was solid. Ever since she tried to convince us she was just a normal person that act started unravelling because you simply can't keep up the idea that your entire life is an artistic expression when you're making a video for Billboard Magazine where you're just stumbling around your Malibu home with your dogs, telling them about your personal life as if that's what we're tuning in for.

But most fans are tuning it for that now, so I guess she won in the end. And I can find satisfaction with other artists, but it's still hard for me to just accept that everything I loved about Lady Gaga has been flushed down the toilet.. by Lady Gaga It was her decision, so then what.. was it her decision to be Lady Gaga in the first place or was that someone else's invention? I don't like that confusion. But anyway, whatevs. I'm still excited for LG5, it will just be a deciding moment for me as a fan. If everything is now going the way she wants to, we'll finally see what she's made of, I guess. And that's when I can make my final judgment.

Personally, I don't think she has been misleading her fans throughout her career. I think she's always been her truest self during every album era (except perhaps those dodgy interviews during The Fame, but we all know those were an act). When she told us she was "born this way", I believe she truly meant it. When she told us how much she loved ARTPOP and stood by her art, I believe she truly meant it. I know she has since contradicted herself, and her public image has always been artificial and theratrical, but I don't think her career has been one big lie. She wears her heart on her sleeve too much to deceive people for 8+ years. My opinion is that her artistry has always been a genuine expression of herself at that particular time. I don't think she's "taking off the mask" to reveal the real Stefani now. She's just growing up.

I hesitate to agree that she's become "Stefani with a brand name". In her most recent TV appearance with Jamie Lee Curtis, she said she is 100% Stefani and 100% Gaga - that is something she's never contradicted. I think this new incarnation of Lady Gaga is the evolution of an artist who put her soul into her art and had it ripped apart by the world. She's afraid of rocking the boat, so she's watering down her art (jazz albums) or letting others take control (American Horror Story). With LG5, we're dealing with an artist who is probably terrified of experiencing another ARTPOP backlash, so we're going to get a very different version of Lady Gaga. But she will still be Lady Gaga nonetheless.

As always, once the album era is over, she will probably evolve into someone else again. But right now, fans just need to prepare themselves for a completely different Gaga. She's no longer the woman who loves to "rattle people's cages" and would die for her art; she's going to be an evolution of the person who's been wearing pretty dresses and singing American classics for the past two years. LG5 will be the "damage control era" and I'm sure it will be very palatable for the general public. But after that, who knows? Hopefully she won't lose all her artistic passion because it would be an awful shame to waste that talent.

[Reality 67,838]

Seeing the comments progressing on this thread, there is definitely tension between Gaga, and I guess, her credibility. Personally, while I do see sides of the argument that lead to Gaga having "blatantly lied" to us for the past 2 eras, I certainly don't think she's doing anything on purpose or would try to intentionally manipulate us in any way, shape, or form.

Comments on Gaga's last two years—Born This Way and ARTPOP—which I suppose can cause controversy when it comes to Gaga's honesty and credibility, are, interesting to say the least. Personally, I believe that these are Gaga's most credible and her most genuine eras that she'd had. Why? Because I believe that she's stayed true to her character even when faced with backlash, betrayal, and loss of fans/the fanbase—I mean, let's be honest, those two eras were not as commercially successful as The Fame and The Fame Monster, even if they were very successful. 

In fact, I think a lot of the things that she's done earlier in her career may not have been the most "genuine" or "authentic". I'm certainly not saying that they aren't genuine or authentic, but those were very early stages in her career. She may not have known how to handle and cope with fame the same way she does now. She also may have tried to perform and do certain things to really just push her career forward, not to mention, she blew up as a pop star very quickly, so there was also that coping to deal with as well.

I do think that she strives for artistry, and I do think that she wants commercial success, but not to the extent people think so. She may link her happiness to her commercial success, and she may even link that to the beginnings of her career [The Fame/Fame Monster], but that's a very normal thing to do. The more success you have, the happier you are, it doesn't mean that she is stuck to the idea of just wanting commercial success.

Finally, to add on this already long post—sorry about that—she is being honest and genuine right now because she's doing projects and things that aren't required whatsoever. If she wasn't happy right now, or wasn't being genuine, she could and really should have released a 'generic' pop album by now. She wouldn't have been doing jazz, she wouldn't be acting. Why "ruin" an amazing pop track record with that? She was happy through all of her eras, she's just decided to highlight certain things about certain eras, we don't know the whole story and cannot make certain judgments about what she feels and shouldn't decide "when she's happy". 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

55 minutes ago, etron said:

Personally, I don't think she has been misleading her fans throughout her career. I think she's always been her truest self during every album era (except perhaps those dodgy interviews during The Fame, but we all know those were an act). When she told us she was "born this way", I believe she truly meant it. When she told us how much she loved ARTPOP and stood by her art, I believe she truly meant it. I know she has since contradicted herself, and her public image has always been artificial and theratrical, but I don't think her career has been one big lie. She wears her heart on her sleeve too much to deceive people for 8+ years. My opinion is that her artistry has always been a genuine expression of herself at that particular time. I don't think she's "taking off the mask" to reveal the real Stefani now. She's just growing up.

I hesitate to agree that she's become "Stefani with a brand name". In her most recent TV appearance with Jamie Lee Curtis, she said she is 100% Stefani and 100% Gaga - that is something she's never contradicted. I think this new incarnation of Lady Gaga is the evolution of an artist who put her soul into her art and had it ripped apart by the world. She's afraid of rocking the boat, so she's watering down her art (jazz albums) or letting others take control (American Horror Story). With LG5, we're dealing with an artist who is probably terrified of experiencing another ARTPOP backlash, so we're going to get a very different version of Lady Gaga. But she will still be Lady Gaga nonetheless.

As always, once the album era is over, she will probably evolve into someone else again. But right now, fans just need to prepare themselves for a completely different Gaga. She's no longer the woman who loves to "rattle people's cages" and would die for her art; she's going to be an evolution of the person who's been wearing pretty dresses and singing American classics for the past two years. LG5 will be the "damage control era" and I'm sure it will be very palatable for the general public. But after that, who knows? Hopefully she won't lose all her artistic passion because it would be an awful shame to waste that talent.

Hells yeah! Gaga has proved everything she wanted to in only 8 short, electric years. Most people (famous or nonfamous) don't even achieve a fraction of that in their entire lifetime.

Her political stance on equality in the military and in marriage, her philosophy on fame and celebrity culture and her respect and admiration for the great artists of the 20th century. 

Now she is going to let her down and have some fun. I feel like in this new era Gaga will be open-hearted, ecstatic and introspective.

[crisTEAne 21,059]

4 hours ago, Lord Temptation said:

In my experience, those who are obsessed with authenticity are the least authentic people around. They call Gaga inauthentic now because it's THEIR last shot. Not Gaga's. That's all they've got left. Everyone knows Gaga is talented, creative and above all else a kind heart and force for good in this despicable world. It's a predictably pretentious way of putting her down - to act like they know her better than she knows herself! They don't know sh*t.

Funny how seeing someone (Gaga) happy can trigger such disgust in someone else (no names mentioned lol).

the very contradictions in those people who are obsessed with contradictions. the irony. 

[Ronlop 6,882]

5 hours ago, Didymus said:

 

But most fans are tuning it for that now, so I guess she won in the end. And I can find satisfaction with other artists, but it's still hard for me to just accept that everything I loved about Lady Gaga has been flushed down the toilet.. by Lady Gaga It was her decision, so then what.. was it her decision to be Lady Gaga in the first place or was that someone else's invention? I don't like that confusion. But anyway, whatevs. I'm still excited for LG5, it will just be a deciding moment for me as a fan. If everything is now going the way she wants to, we'll finally see what she's made of, I guess. And that's when I can make my final judgment.

Yeah, you're definitely right!

And "It was her decision, so then what.. was it her decision to be Lady Gaga in the first place or was that someone else's invention? " is really the biggest question. And always has been actually. It's just that she always denied it in her previous eras and said "this is who I am" but then again, why did she turn to an entirely different person now if that's who she really is? People grow but they don't turn 180 degrees in a year. 

Usually artists have a certain image and that image gets tiring after awhile. With Gaga, she just got boring and that's because she chose to completely change her image. Which is what I find odd tbh. 

"a video for Billboard Magazine where you're just stumbling around your Malibu home with your dogs, telling them about your personal life as if that's what we're tuning in for."

Great point!

 

 

 

[Slayer 9,227]

1 hour ago, Ronlop said:

Yeah, you're definitely right!

And "It was her decision, so then what.. was it her decision to be Lady Gaga in the first place or was that someone else's invention? " is really the biggest question. And always has been actually. It's just that she always denied it in her previous eras and said "this is who I am" but then again, why did she turn to an entirely different person now if that's who she really is? People grow but they don't turn 180 degrees in a year. 

 

She is doing this on purpose. The "new Gaga" is a conscious effort by her and her management team to make her seem more palatable and relatable to the public again. She has a huge amount of money riding on this new album and she needs to make herself and the album appealing again. That's why she talks about her engagement and her dogs, and gives Billboard a tour of her house, etc. She's coming down to earth, because god knows she was the only one on Venus during the ARTPOP era. 

3 hours ago, M Monstre said:

Seeing the comments progressing on this thread, there is definitely tension between Gaga, and I guess, her credibility. Personally, while I do see sides of the argument that lead to Gaga having "blatantly lied" to us for the past 2 eras, I certainly don't think she's doing anything on purpose or would try to intentionally manipulate us in any way, shape, or form.

Comments on Gaga's last two years—Born This Way and ARTPOP—which I suppose can cause controversy when it comes to Gaga's honesty and credibility, are, interesting to say the least. Personally, I believe that these are Gaga's most credible and her most genuine eras that she'd had. Why? Because I believe that she's stayed true to her character even when faced with backlash, betrayal, and loss of fans/the fanbase—I mean, let's be honest, those two eras were not as commercially successful as The Fame and The Fame Monster, even if they were very successful. 

I agree. If 'Lady Gaga' was just a creation by a highly astute management and marketing team, then they would have stuck with the successful Fame Monster formula. But instead, she kept evolving and evolving with each album until she was barely recognisable. There is no way a manufactured pop star would be allowed to ride a mechanical bull while someone throws up on her onstage. And there is no way Gaga, who is a smart woman, would think something like that would endear her to the public. That stunt was her artistic way of flipping the bird to all the record executives who wanted her to be 'radio-friendly' again.  

So yes, I agree that BTW and ARTPOP were her most credible and genuine eras, but it also confuses me when she said she would sit at a piano and think "I'm too good for this, why are you letting them control you, why are you a fashionable robot?"  Just 33 weeks ago according to Instagram, she posted this:

 If she didn't enjoy ARTPOP or felt like she had just become a fashionable robot, would she really have wished her universally trashed album a happy birthday and posted a picture like this?? I think either that "I'm too good for this" quote was misinterpreted or she meant something different by it. Because from what I can see, she still stands by her art and feels a huge attachment to this album.

[crisTEAne 21,059]

10 minutes ago, etron said:

She's coming down to earth, because god knows she was the only one on Venus during the ARTPOP era. 

@BorisIsHere, me, and @Lord Temptation disagree.

[Slayer 9,227]

Just now, T E A said:

@BorisIsHere, me, and @Lord Temptation disagree.

Didn't mean that literally. I'm aware there are fans who liked ARTPOP, I'm one of them...

[crisTEAne 21,059]

1 minute ago, etron said:

Didn't mean that literally. I'm aware there are fans who liked ARTPOP, I'm one of them...

so why were you not on venus? 

[Slayer 9,227]

38 minutes ago, T E A said:

so why were you not on venus? 

I was in the city of kindness. 

 

 

[Reality 67,838]

2 hours ago, etron said:

So yes, I agree that BTW and ARTPOP were her most credible and genuine eras, but it also confuses me when she said she would sit at a piano and think "I'm too good for this, why are you letting them control you, why are you a fashionable robot?"  Just 33 weeks ago according to Instagram, she posted this

 If she didn't enjoy ARTPOP or felt like she had just become a fashionable robot, would she really have wished her universally trashed album a happy birthday and posted a picture like this?? I think either that "I'm too good for this" quote was misinterpreted or she meant something different by it. Because from what I can see, she still stands by her art and feels a huge attachment to this album.

I think the reason why she posted that picture, and the reason why she celebrated ARTPOP is because I think the album helped her cope with a lot of different issues during that time period. Gaga has said that 2013 and 2014 were some of the most challenging years of her life, and quite honestly, I see ARTPOP as more of a coping mechanism that Gaga's created, rather than an album that she really wanted to promote [ala The Fame & The Fame Monster]. 

I think like Born This Way, ARTPOP was more than just an album. ARTPOP was, again, a coping mechanism for Gaga when she needed it the most. I mean, look at a songs like Dope, Swine, and Do What U Want. These are all songs with very personal messages and songs that have helped and healed Gaga. This album also probably helped with coping with the fact that she saw herself as a 'robot'. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

2 hours ago, etron said:

She is doing this on purpose. The "new Gaga" is a conscious effort by her and her management team to make her seem more palatable and relatable to the public again. She has a huge amount of money riding on this new album and she needs to make herself and the album appealing again. That's why she talks about her engagement and her dogs, and gives Billboard a tour of her house, etc. She's coming down to earth, because god knows she was the only one on Venus during the ARTPOP era. 

I agree. If 'Lady Gaga' was just a creation by a highly astute management and marketing team, then they would have stuck with the successful Fame Monster formula. But instead, she kept evolving and evolving with each album until she was barely recognisable. There is no way a manufactured pop star would be allowed to ride a mechanical bull while someone throws up on her onstage. And there is no way Gaga, who is a smart woman, would think something like that would endear her to the public. That stunt was her artistic way of flipping the bird to all the record executives who wanted her to be 'radio-friendly' again.  

So yes, I agree that BTW and ARTPOP were her most credible and genuine eras, but it also confuses me when she said she would sit at a piano and think "I'm too good for this, why are you letting them control you, why are you a fashionable robot?"  Just 33 weeks ago according to Instagram, she posted this:

 If she didn't enjoy ARTPOP or felt like she had just become a fashionable robot, would she really have wished her universally trashed album a happy birthday and posted a picture like this?? I think either that "I'm too good for this" quote was misinterpreted or she meant something different by it. Because from what I can see, she still stands by her art and feels a huge attachment to this album.

ARTPOP was "universally trashed"?

On which universe? 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

2 hours ago, T E A said:

@BorisIsHere, me, and @Lord Temptation disagree.

I was so in Venus 

[Slayer 9,227]

8 hours ago, Lord Temptation said:

ARTPOP was "universally trashed"?

On which universe? 

This one?