Sanders to cut hundreds of staff from campaign

[Gia 39]

You guys are crazy if you think voting third party doesn't help or is a waste of a vote. If a third party gets 5% of the votes in the general they can gain public funding. Just because you aren't a Trump fan, doesn't mean you should be voting for Hillary...   

 

 

 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

4 hours ago, LebaneseDude said:

It's not about Trump. Trump will push for Republican interests and liberal policies will either be blocked, or even worse, backtracked where possible.

If the Supreme Court Judge decision is not complete by the time he assumes the position, he'll be free to nominate a Republican one. A Republican-biased Supreme Court has far more lasting impact than you realize.

You are making too many assumptions here. This is not "one" election. This is a pivotal election at a time where many liberal policies you supposedly espouse are on the verge of being enacted or dismissed.

Honestly this risk you're taking is not yours to take. You're dragging down everyone along with you. I'm not saying you should give in to peer pressure or vote what's not in your interest, but doesn't society interest you at all? You speak of anarchy, not civility.

I'm sorry but you can deny it all you want. A potential liberal refusing to vote is voting for Trump. You're splitting the vote. The GOP won't support Jill Stein. Their entire base will go for Trump if they have to. This isn't blackmail. It's the reality. It's what got Nixon in the White House. It's what got Bush in the White House. 

We still talk about their failures to this day. 

Do as you wish. Your vote matters, but not as much as you think, and at the end of the day people with more experience and better judgement know what to do. Let's hope they make up for your idealism, allowing you to continue living your life as you mock them.

Savage but true af  

People do have the right to vote selfishly, but I personally think if the decision is between feeling better at night knowing that I stood by my beliefs or indirectly being involved in causing harm on others by my inaction (not voting) that's an easy choice. I can suck up my pride (im not even a Hillary hater, id gladly vote for her if/when Bernie does not get the nomination; It's not a pride issue for me, its literally a matter of preference)

Meanwhile, millions of people will vote for Trump on his entirely ridiculous platform of "making America great again" and these same people unfortunately believe America was objectively "Great" in the first place  (Oops, my anti-patriotic side is showing ) The potential regression of social progress, not to mention economic and foreign affair-related progress heavily outweighs any sort of personal notions of pride that would exist. Unless Hillary plunges us into WW3 or whatever, I'll sleep just fine  

 

[Redstreak 6,653]

Well I live in Alabama so at least I don't feel so bad about not voting

[socotra 3,357]

4 hours ago, LebaneseDude said:

It's not about Trump. Trump will push for Republican interests and liberal policies will either be blocked, or even worse, backtracked where possible.

If the Supreme Court Judge decision is not complete by the time he assumes the position, he'll be free to nominate a Republican one. A Republican-biased Supreme Court has far more lasting impact than you realize.

You are making too many assumptions here. This is not "one" election. This is a pivotal election at a time where many liberal policies you supposedly espouse are on the verge of being enacted or dismissed.

Honestly this risk you're taking is not yours to take. You're dragging down everyone along with you. I'm not saying you should give in to peer pressure or vote what's not in your interest, but doesn't society interest you at all? You speak of anarchy, not civility.

I'm sorry but you can deny it all you want. A potential liberal refusing to vote is voting for Trump. You're splitting the vote. The GOP won't support Jill Stein. Their entire base will go for Trump if they have to. This isn't blackmail. It's the reality. It's what got Nixon in the White House. It's what got Bush in the White House. 

We still talk about their failures to this day. 

Do as you wish. Your vote matters, but not as much as you think, and at the end of the day people with more experience and better judgement know what to do. Let's hope they make up for your idealism, allowing you to continue living your life as you mock them.

(I hope you realize that the tone with which you talk to people on this site is incredibly condescending and pugnacious. Just a piece of advice when trying to persuade someone.) 

I agree it is a pivotal election. However, which election can you point out in recent times that couldn't be deemed "pivotal"? Voting for Stein or a third-party isn't conducive in preventing Trump, no – but in the greater picture, the more votes non-majority parties receive each election cycle, the more formidable they become. "But this is not the election to do that!" The odious Trump must be stopped, yes, and a Republican Supreme Court would be cataclysmic. I give you that, I'm not arguing that at all. My point (and really, my only point) is that if we don't change the system now, when will ever change? Every election is a seminal election. By virtue of being an election, a change in power, there will be ramifications. 

Voting Green is a boondoggle. I've accepted that. But in making MY voice heard, I feel I've upheld my responsibilities as a citizen to vote according to logic and reason – NOT fear and capitulation. I will not vote for Hillary just because she's the lesser of two evils because that, in my mind, is still voting for an evil. My vote truly is not that important as a single vote, but keep in mind that I am not alone in my feelings, and that that millions are tired of the two-party system and of as-usual politics. That is why Trump is so popular and why a great number of people are not going to vote for Clinton. It may be a small amount as you and others are expecting, or it may be a large amount that costs Clinton the election... and if she does lose the election, keep in mind that it was because Clinton (and increasingly the Democratic Party) was seen as a corrupt, untrustworthy person who was so disliked that people felt their only other choice was a third party. 

What I talk about is not anarchy at all. If voting for who I'd like to see as president is anarchy, then I'm not sure what else to say in this conversation. However, I'd also like to add that a similar battle is going on in the Republican Party and their vote is also likely to be split. This election is indeed interesting, and I think you could make the argument that because both parties are experiencing pulls from different ideological directions, this is actually the perfect time to vote third party. 

[Whispering 18,865]

9 minutes ago, Legalize Chris said:

(I hope you realize that the tone with which you talk to people on this site is incredibly condescending and pugnacious. Just a piece of advice when trying to persuade someone.) 

I agree it is a pivotal election. However, which election can you point out in recent times that couldn't be deemed "pivotal"? Voting for Stein or a third-party isn't conducive in preventing Trump, no – but in the greater picture, the more votes non-majority parties receive each election cycle, the more formidable they become. "But this is not the election to do that!" The odious Trump must be stopped, yes, and a Republican Supreme Court would be cataclysmic. I give you that, I'm not arguing that at all. My point (and really, my only point) is that if we don't change the system now, when will ever change? Every election is a seminal election. 

Voting Green is a boondoggle. I've accepted that. But in making MY voice heard, I feel I've upheld my responsibilities as a citizen to vote according to logic and reason – NOT fear and capitulation. I will not vote for Hillary just because she's the lesser of two evils because that, in my mind, is still voting for an evil. My vote truly is not that important as a single vote, but keep in mind that I am not alone in my feelings, and that that millions are tired of the two-party system and of as-usual politics. That is why Trump is so popular and why a great number of people are not going to vote for Clinton. It may be a small amount as you and others are expecting, or it may be a large amount that costs Clinton the election... and if she does lose the election, keep in mind that it was because Clinton (and increasingly the Democratic Party) was seen as a corrupt, untrustworthy person who was so disliked that people felt their only other choice was a third party. 

Just like they felt Gore was untrustworthy and the Party was corrupt? That decision gave us Bush. 

Wasn't this the same corrupt party that elected Obama? He had Super Pacs and took money from corporate America. If Clinton supporters had gone with a third party, we would have ended up with McCain and a Republican Congress. Do you think we would have ended up with the LGBT rights we have today? If we had Gore for eight years, instead of Bush, how much further along would we be in tackling our environmental issues? If Obama had lost and we had McCain instead, where would we be on healthcare? Would we still be engaged in full out wars in the Middle East? Would we be spending more than ever on the military? What would our immigration policies be like now? How about Planned Parenthood and LGBT rights? Would there be support for a movement to examine the policing in the US? Aren't these all issues that Bernie cares about? 

Of course, you are more than free to vote for who you want to vote for, write someone in or not vote at all, but there is a bigger picture. If Trump gets in office, do you really believe that it would change money in politics or corruption in politics? What it would would do is put a completely unprepared narcicisst in office that our allies are all worried about. This is the person who will choose the Justices that could pull us backwards on human rights and stall environmental changes. 

How is this different than any other election year? The GOP nominee is dangerous and wreckless. That is a very alarming and toxic combination, one that could very well have everyone wishing for the "corruption in politics" problem. 

[socotra 3,357]

14 hours ago, Whispering said:

Just like they felt Gore was untrustworthy and the Party was corrupt? That decision gave us Bush. 

Wasn't this the same corrupt party that elected Obama? He had Super Pacs and took money from corporate America. If Clinton supporters had gone with a third party, we would have ended up with McCain and a Republican Congress. Do you think we would have ended up with the LGBT rights we have today? If we had Gore for eight years, instead of Bush, how much further along would we be in tackling our environmental issues? If Obama had lost and we had McCain instead, where would we be on healthcare? Would we still be engaged in full out wars in the Middle East? Would we be spending more than ever on the military? What would our immigration policies be like now? How about Planned Parenthood and LGBT rights? Would there be support for a movement to examine the policing in the US? Aren't these all issues that Bernie cares about? 

Of course, you are more than free to vote for who you want to vote for, write someone in or not vote at all, but there is a bigger picture. If Trump gets in office, do you really believe that it would change money in politics or corruption in politics? What it would would do is put a completely unprepared narcicisst in office that our allies are all worried about. This is the person who will choose the Justices that could pull us backwards on human rights and stall environmental changes. 

How is this different than any other election year? The GOP nominee is dangerous and wreckless. That is a very alarming and toxic combination, one that could very well have everyone wishing for the "corruption in politics" problem. 

Again, I am not knocking the progress the Democratic Party has made. There is no doubt that they have contributed greatly to this country. However, in the long run, they are a part of the problem – not the solution. As I've said in past posts, my allegiance is not to Bernie, but to change. If that culminates in another candidate, I will support that candidate. 

If Hillary gets into office, it wouldn't change money in politics or corruption either. I despise Trump, I do not want that man in office. However, I will not let my personal fears of what his presidency could ravage on this country interfere with a moral responsibility to vote for the best candidate, not the most convenient candidate. 

EXACTLY. How IS this different than any other election year? Every cycle, there will be imminent threats to our national security, the revocation of civil rights hanging over our head, selection of court justices, domestic issues, the economy, etc. It's a slew of problems every single time – so when, then, is it okay to enact change? When is the BEST time to vote third party and make a change? Every single election there will be something terrible that could hypothetically happen. If it's not Trump, then it's McCain. I do not want to be a part of the continued cycle – and you may say "But this isn't the election to do it, too much is at stake." Was the same argument not made in 2008 with the advent of the Great Recession?

My central point is that there's never going to be a perfect time because there's never going to be a time without problems. I'm choosing to stand up to that. That's how I view it. And as I said before, if Hillary loses, it's because people are so damn fed up with the system that she has had a hand in continuing.