ARTPOP in depth album analysis

[braybray23 248]

I'm happy to see all the ARTPOP love. 💙

[Bad Bromance 5,809]

22 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I wish it was more obvious when words become links  here ya go

 

Thank you!!!  

[Bad Bromance 5,809]

12 minutes ago, braybray23 said:

I'm happy to see all the ARTPOP love. 💙

Me, too!!!!    

[Didymus 34,379]

This wasn't really in depth.. And you missed a shitton of stuff Where's the narrative arc in the tracklist as a whole?

Completely disagree with the interpretations of Aura, G.U.Y., Sexxx Dreams, MANiCURE, ARTPOP, Fashion!, MJH, Gypsy and Applause tbh.

So that makes me quite amused by all the self-styled "artistic connoisseurs" in this thread who think they cracked the code and talk down to other people in other threads about how they don't get the album Looks like a Gaga hater spent more time analyzing it.

Might have to make my own thread about it tbh.

[eifulien 2,935]

2 hours ago, Didymus said:

This wasn't really in depth.. And you missed a shitton of stuff Where's the narrative arc in the tracklist as a whole?

Completely disagree with the interpretations of Aura, G.U.Y., Sexxx Dreams, MANiCURE, ARTPOP, Fashion!, MJH, Gypsy and Applause tbh.

So that makes me quite amused by all the self-styled "artistic connoisseurs" in this thread who think they cracked the code and talk down to other people in other threads about how they don't get the album Looks like a Gaga hater spent more time analyzing it.

Might have to make my own thread about it tbh.

Do it please! I know you are a vivid stan for The Fame/TFM and you've criticised a lot ARTPOP. But at least you could provide a good reasoning behind your views. So I'd like to hear your more neutral and objective POV. 

[djBuffoon 12,100]

So that makes me quite amused by all the self-styled "artistic connoisseurs" in this thread who think they cracked the code and talk down to other people in other threads about how they don't get the album

hmm. Similar to the way that other people talk down to those who do think they understand the album? 👀

[Didymus 34,379]

24 minutes ago, djBuffoon said:

So that makes me quite amused by all the self-styled "artistic connoisseurs" in this thread who think they cracked the code and talk down to other people in other threads about how they don't get the album

hmm. Similar to the way that other people talk down to those who do think they understand the album? 👀

First off: lmao at the lack of balls to quote me.

Secondly: I don't think I was talking down to people. I didn't imply that people were stupid for understanding the album the way they do. I simply stated that it's funny to me how the people who like to prance around claiming they, in contrast to the other media sheep, understand the album have such basic ideas about it.

I've been told MANY times by people like you that I just don't like the album because I was misled by the reviews and just let the commercial failure distract me from its value, and now it turns out I have a far more elaborate understanding of the album than any o' y'all. That's hilarious no matter how you slice it.

[eifulien 2,935]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

First off: lmao at the lack of balls to quote me.

Secondly: I don't think I was talking down to people. I didn't imply that people were stupid for understanding the album the way they do. I simply stated that it's funny to me how the people who like to prance around claiming they, in contrast to the other media sheep, understand the album have such basic ideas about it.

I've been told MANY times by people like you that I just don't like the album because I was misled by the reviews and just let the commercial failure distract me from its value, and now it turns out I have a far more elaborate understanding of the album than any o' y'all. That's hilarious no matter how you slice it.

Can we please draw the line finally? There are ARTPOP stans, that are very fast to judge anyone who dislikes the album, assuming that it's because of the commercial performance, the critical reception, and so on. Then there are those Monsters who bash it, and call it trash without any reasoning, you know, they jumped on the hate train to seem hip and trendy. 

Let's eliminate both groups from both sides and start talking. I respect people with different opinion, and I've learnt a lot from people with the opposite views. There are many of us, as you see here, that have bonded with the album, and are interested in its depth and meaning. 

Instead of low-key bragging about your somewhat more informed opinion on ARTPOP, you could just share it. I believe it would benefit both sides to have a real discussion on this since the forum has become a boring sh*thole and we don't have anything new to talk about (a kind reminder to those who'll come here to say how it's been done 100 times before and "let it go" kind of comments) 

[Didymus 34,379]

4 minutes ago, Son of ARTPOP said:

Can we please draw the line finally? There are ARTPOP stans, that are very fast to judge anyone who dislikes the album, assuming that it's because of the commercial performance, the critical reception, and so on. Then there are those Monsters who bash it, and call it trash without any reasoning, you know, they jumped on the hate train to seem hip and trendy. 

Let's eliminate both groups from both sides and start talking. I respect people with different opinion, and I've learnt a lot from people with the opposite views. There are many of us, as you see here, that have bonded with the album, and are interested in its depth and meaning. 

Instead of low-key bragging about your somewhat more informed opinion on ARTPOP, you could just share it. I believe it would benefit both sides to have a real discussion on this since the forum has become a boring sh*thole and we don't have anything new to talk about (a kind reminder to those who'll come here to say how it's been done 100 times before and "let it go" kind of comments) 

Well, agreed.

And yeah, I was being petty but consider it my payback for tons of unfounded disses towards me Making a post about it, I'll just post it here to show my good will

[Didymus 34,379]

DIDY EXPLAINS ARTPOP* EPISODE #1

*the way I see it

--

01. AURA

This is a thematic opener for sure, representing what the entire album is: a display of all the different veils she has gathered around herself through her life (her album is, I believe, also presented in a semi-biographical chronological storyline).

A connection to a woman veiled in a burqa is presented as a political undertone where she, surprisingly, takes a very conservative position: rejecting the pity people show towards the supposedly oppressed female ("arranged one man to love"), she hits back saying that that man is more than enough for her. This is probably a metaphor for her artistry: she is wedded to it indefinitely and it is not a prison, it is freedom. This fits in nicely with the seemingly paradoxical idea that veils can be revealing rather than their usual association. It's not clear to me what statement Gaga wanted to make in connection to the actually oppressed woman in more-than-moderate Islamic countries, but my guess is she wants to present a model, a vision of empowerment that seems paradoxical at first, but is actually a true liberation exactly because it does not demand an "unveiling" of supposed "inauthenticity" as proof of identity or strength (see the end of this post).

The idea of paradox is actually paramount for this whole album. On the cover we see a gazing ball, which instead of a glorious vision, shows a mere reflection of the space around it. I see the same idea reflected in the album tracklist. Gaga tempts us in this opening track: do you want to see the real me? The real essence behind all these veils I have used to lure you in? The final answer is revealed in the last track of the album: "I am you." But more of that later when I discuss Applause. The point is: Gaga introduces her story, which will be presented by several "veils" covering/revealing episodes in her life. The biographical inspiration is reinforced by the lyric: "it's not a statement as much as a move of passion". Covering herself up in ideas, images, visions,... is part of who she is. Again: a paradox.

As for a psychological treatment of the song: you can see the lifting of the veils in two parts of the album, actually. In the track Venus, where Gaga's essence is love, pure, ecstatic, and cosmic in scope. However, in G.U.Y. we find the first rupture, the first veil which will hide this essence, this "gorgeousness of [her] face", possibly even from her own eyes. Mars invades Venus: love is broken up and the harmony has scattered (into a thousand veils, if you will). This is actually reflected in mythology, but more of that when I get to Venus and G.U.Y. Again, the point: the veils might be lifted once again near the end of the album, when she regains that pure love (with Taylor, in Gypsy) and that purity in which the two lovers are equals again (≠ G.U.Y.).

So, again, love is the essence behind the veil. And behind the phenomenon that is Lady Gaga, for love is what she shares with her fans. It is a mutually responsive relationship that thus reflects the purity of love, which is the thing Gaga wants to hold on to most dearly, exactly by letting it flow freely (≠ G.U.Y.). Self-surrender then becomes the main message of this album, paradoxically negating the original "lie" Gaga sold in Aura/her career to draw in the listener: there is no one behind these veils. There is only love and it is what unites us all, precisely because we have to surrender our identity to experience it. And one way, to do this... is to make art. Gaga thus negates the importance of commercial success and the usual quick fix of pop culture. Her message is exactly that the search for true identity can only be found by releasing it from constraints and letting it flow in all kinds of color. That way, the ever flowing veils become the identity. People finally understand Lady Gaga through this journey. Or rather. They can finally see through her. And themselves.

Spoiler

 

[Didymus 34,379]

DIDY EXPLAINS ARTPOP* EPISODE #2 (A.K.A. N1CURR)

*the way I see it why am I bothering

--

02. VENUS

Very straightforward, which is part of the message: love isn't complicated, it is triumphant, ecstatic and imaginative. Like I said in the previous post about self-surrender, note the lyric: "When you touch me I die just a little inside, I wonder if this could be love". The cosmic lyrics are quite clever, representing the fact that this is a type of love that Gaga would never associate with love: it is literally out of this world, out of this galaxy, not responsive to the tests of time and space.

A little part of the gem here is that Gaga is addressing the Goddess of Love, Aphrodite. It is not written from Aphrodite's perspective, so when Gaga adopted the persona we see the first of the "the veil becomes the identity" mechanism. The focus on Venus, which is of course a feminine planet, and the lyrical focus on the female experience (note that a man is nowhere in sight lyrically), as well as Gaga's comments about the song, all point in the direction that Gaga is dismissing the idea of love as the woman clinging to the man - the woman is celebratory, she is at home in her role of unmediated love and she can become one with it through a state of mind, not a sexual attraction to a man per se.

03. G.U.Y.

This changes in G.U.Y.. The planet Mars, symbolizing the male, arises. Venus and Mars are of course polar opposites and mythology. Venus dominates Mars, which corresponds perfectly to the third wave feminist angle Gaga presented as the official explanation for the song. However, I do believe there is a subtext that only comes to life when the album is considered as a narrative journey. Indeed, Venus and Mars had an illegitimate relationship (they were not married, often taken by interpreters as signifying that their love is temporary and might easily be thrown out of balance - note the lyric in Aura: Gaga is wedded to one man, so the appearance of Mars would suggest this is just an ordinary man on which she projects her desires, not the one man who functioned as a metaphor for her artistic work).

It is interesting to note that Roman art (just a quick reminder: in Roman the couple is Venus and Mars, in Greek it's Aphrodite and Ares) romanticizes the relationship between the divine couple, while Greek mythology takes a different turn. Aphrodite is married to Hephaestus (a far more tempered god), while in the Odyssey she is described as preferring the violent god Ares. "Mars' warring spirit rams into the atmosphere". The lyrics imply that Gaga is attracted to her lover because of his qualities: domination and control. She wants to own those qualities, clearly, as there is a continuous mingling of sexual characteristics throughout (which can symbolize equality but also destability when the previous track Venus is concerned).

The implication is that she wants to control the entire relationship. This is a dimension she hasn't addressed in interviews, but it's undoubtedly there. "I'm gonna wear the tie, want the power to leave you. I'm aiming for full control of this love." Instead of "dying a little inside", answering to the sublime love ideal of dying in your beloved, she demands her lover to die in her: "I wanna be the grave and earth you". For a god, this of course means death. In the narrative of the album then, we can interpret the song as marking a first impurity entering the pure love experience in Venus: the lovers aren't equal and the offspring of their love (one of the children being indeed Himeros, which is the god of sexual desire - the material aspect of love is indeed constantly emphasized, as in: "Our sexes tell us no lies". This can easily be seen as a debasement of the love portrayed in Venus) symbolizes both desire ànd unrequited love in sources. Again a seeming reference to paradise going wrong. This impurity will be redeemed in Gypsy where the lovers are equal and no control is desired by any of the partners (which is how Gaga explained the song and her idea of love in radio interviews). The partners are both whole in themselves and allow each other's freedom.

04. Sexxx Dreams

And here the influence of "Mars" takes its toll on the romantic relationship (which at this point of the narrative could be biographical imo). Gaga cannot control her desires anymore (which shows Venus sliding back into her passive mode and one of her "children" or the results of previous actions dominating her - in this case, not love, but desire of an illegitimate kind) and falls prey to fantasies. The relationship is breaking, as indicated instantly in the lyrics: "Our lovers quarrell" which almost sounds like someone updating us on the story in a classic theatrical production, before a scene starts - another veil.

The debasement of divine fantasies is now complete. No reference to gods is made whatsoever: this love is not pure, it is material and based on desire (which, at least this is the implication I see, is based more on a feeling of being incomplete than being in love: the lover demands instead of becoming whole through self-surrender: note the lyric "I'm broken") that is ultimately uncontrollable: Himeros is playing the cards now. "I can't help my mind from going there." G.U.Y. thus seems to function almost as an astrological prophecy: another man comes into play (Mars) and ruins the relationship (with Hephaestus or her art). Gaga explicitly goes past the boundaries of accepted behavior: she sleeps with someone who is in a relationship with another.

And she cheats on her own lover as well ("In love as I am when I lay with you, I think of him"). The lyric "you could turn to stone or the color of men petrified by a woman" could be a reference to the dynamic of her own relationship: Gaga lost her security in him (metaphor for creativity?) and takes on a very dualistic way of thinking (≠ Venus) that reflects the tensions in G.U.Y.: either she settles for being a receptive, passive, weak female (in which case her lover's Martial aspect will take over - violent, harsh, no consideration for her feelings) or she takes charge and possibly frightens him off. This might be a biographical reference to a relationship she had, or again, it might be a metaphor for Gaga's relationship with her creativity.

--

The main damage is done: the divinity is broken, and it has materialized as instability. This instability will be reflected in various forms on the album until it reaches its climax in Dope. Throughout there will be a notable tension between the dual form she can take as a woman: she can either be passive and be taken advantage of (Do What U Want, Swine, Mary Jane Holland) or she can try to take control and experience an ultimately false sense of redemption (MANiCURE, Donatella, Fashion!). ARTPOP functions as the thematic core of the album, obviously illustrated by its position between Aura and Applause, which are the thematic opener and closer, and its lyrics. Dope and Gypsy function as the climax of the album, the restoring of love, of happiness, and true confidence. They mark the reappearance of unmediated honesty, both reflected in Gaga finally breaking down and letting down her guard (Dope, easily heard in the change of tone in the music) and building herself back up again with the right life partner (Gypsy).

In my opinion then, ARTPOP can be seen as having a definite storyline (Venus-G.U.Y.-Sexxx Dreams- **multiple veils hiding/revealing biographical events as well as parts of Gaga's personality** -Dope-Gypsy). It is interesting to note that post-Swine, Gaga clearly tries to escape in different things (fame, fashion or constant change, and drugs), a darkening road which eventually leads to a crash. All episodes exist independently as well as partaking in the narrative, which could be read itself as a statement about individuality: there is an essence behind all the different parts of ourselves, but we won't find out what it is until we have discovered every part of ourselves - thus, the journey creates the essence dynamically instead of statically. Connects perfectly to my previous post about Aura and identity.

More on the narrative later (if anyone cares)

Post your thoughts

[eifulien 2,935]

19 minutes ago, Didymus said:

 

More on the narrative later (if anyone cares)

Post your thoughts

Ofc we care. I find your interpretation the deepest one yet. I agree on the majority of the things, cause I've had similar sentiments. Especially when you speak about the storyline and the whole tracklist. Personally, I like your interpretation on the first half of the album which for me is harder to define. The second half of ARTPOP is clearly very personal but the first one? I'm never really sure, but my general idea is that we get to know her views on love, sex, relationships, and women's role in them. You, on the other hand, seem to have discovered an even deeper connection between the songs. Another point to be made is one of duality - the oppositions. Venus - representing the Platonic love, v. G.U.Y. MANiCURE - the woman in power v. DWUW's woman which on the outside seems to be submissive. MJH v. Dope. Donatella v. Fashion! 

I'm waiting to see where you're going with this, especially for the title track. Also what do you think about the many contradictions many believe to be present on the album? I think this is one of the hardest things to explain. A portion could actually be explained with the album's nature. The others are more likely a result of the numerous mishaps during the era, Gaga not being on top of her game, behind-the-scenes mess, so whatever we got it didn't live to its maximum potential.

Something in particular you could share, if you have any idea, is - when does she takes herself too seriously on the album, or does she at all? Is it ironic? Is it a result of her anger and refusal (and inability) to give her talent and creativity 100%? Basically the opposition - ARTPOP is too high-brow versus ARTPOP is just fun party music, which ultimately divides many members here, so you come across contradictions like "AP was experimental and that's why it was disliked" v. "AP was too simple and played it safe, it's basically trash, Gaga was trying to please the fans"

[PartySick 155,263]

13 hours ago, Didymus said:

This wasn't really in depth.. And you missed a shitton of stuff Where's the narrative arc in the tracklist as a whole?

Completely disagree with the interpretations of Aura, G.U.Y., Sexxx Dreams, MANiCURE, ARTPOP, Fashion!, MJH, Gypsy and Applause tbh.

So that makes me quite amused by all the self-styled "artistic connoisseurs" in this thread who think they cracked the code and talk down to other people in other threads about how they don't get the album Looks like a Gaga hater spent more time analyzing it.

Might have to make my own thread about it tbh.

Gosh

I did this with Born This Way in order to show why I thought the album was coherent and to share my personal thoughts and feelings and part of why I feel or think like I do. I also tried to keep it as short and to the point as possible. Then a few people asked for me to do ARTPOP too, so I did  so this is me talking about what I took from the album and why, not just talking about the album, ya know? It's good that you disagree with me, too 'cause that's what it's all about in the end.

And for the record, I have never and will never talk down to someone just because they have different taste than I do or they don't care to see what I see where I see it. If they don't like how the album sounds, they care more about commercial success and the era, or they just don't really have any desire to draw crazy conclusions like I do, to each his/her own

Spoiler

Not that you accused me of doing it, I'm just saying 

Spoiler

Also, sorry for the 13 hour late reply 

 

 

[Didymus 34,379]

11 hours ago, Son of ARTPOP said:

Also what do you think about the many contradictions many believe to be present on the album? I think this is one of the hardest things to explain. A portion could actually be explained with the album's nature. The others are more likely a result of the numerous mishaps during the era, Gaga not being on top of her game, behind-the-scenes mess, so whatever we got it didn't live to its maximum potential.

Something in particular you could share, if you have any idea, is - when does she takes herself too seriously on the album, or does she at all? Is it ironic? Is it a result of her anger and refusal (and inability) to give her talent and creativity 100%? Basically the opposition - ARTPOP is too high-brow versus ARTPOP is just fun party music, which ultimately divides many members here, so you come across contradictions like "AP was experimental and that's why it was disliked" v. "AP was too simple and played it safe, it's basically trash, Gaga was trying to please the fans"

I don't believe there are contradictions at all Or are you talking about the era, since you mentioned mishaps? If it's about the "it's not an artistic album" thing, well, Gaga said as far back as 2012 that the album was just a part of the bigger project that was ARTPOP and in 2013 she literally said that the "art" in ARTPOP wasn't necessarily represented by the album. So I never saw a contradiction there.

I do think she takes herself too seriously and did in that particular era. I preferred her early career "I just love music" way of simply ignoring questions that wanted her to talk about the industry, competitors,... I feel like she's more powerful when she shows her point of view than when she talks about it. Like that whole "I'm not french fries, I'm foie gras" interview was a pain to look at for me Just not necessary.

Clearly from my interpretation, I do think ARTPOP has a sublayer that's very interesting, in contrast to the superficial sound of the thing. So no, I think it's crazy to assume that ARTPOP's "experimental" nature scared people off (it's just not experimental and it wasn't even meant to be so - if it was, all the tracks would be 6 minute pop format-less dance). I just think it didn't sound fresh and the marriage between the EDM and the familiar pop melodies and structures made it sound unappealing because the EDM wasn't deeply ingrained enough to attract dance lovers and the pop elements weren't exciting enough to attract a mass audience either. I'm just still confused by Gaga repeating that the album was designed to be radio friendly and every song was made to be a radio hit I mean, I guess I can hear it, but girl, there's no way such a non-fresh sound would have been attractive to airplay (excl. Applause).

I think the fans have imagined the situation of "the album was too experimental" as an excuse to explain why it wasn't successful review-wise and commercially as well. Surely BTW had more of an off-putting sound when compared to other releases at the time, so if anything, that album should've been the one to have had the ARTPOP era. Then you have the group of people that maintains that ARTPOP is misunderstood etc., which I agree with (clearly), but then again, I can't blame anyone for that since Gaga kept presenting the album dualistically: "just a fun pop album" (esp. at that H&M interview which made me cringe beyond belief) and "my pain exploding" blabla. The subtext of the album is so hidden from sight that I can't expect anyone to be looking for it - so people conclude there is no subtext, no story, nothing that holds the album together, and they choose for Gaga's first presented interpretation: just a fun album that didn't really mean anything (apart from the mandatory mentions of "the rape song" and "the drugs song").

But whatever, I've grown perfectly used to the 90% of this fanbase that claims to be ahead of everyone else by seeing Gaga as the world's lord and saviour but who simultaneously refuse to take the time to take her work seriously (I have made many analytical threads where the common response was: "I'm sure that's not what she means"; "way to overanalyze";...). Most of her fans don't care to spend time on anything else than to repeat why Gaga's so much better and more talented than her competition, and that's how they wanna spend their time, so.. I guess that's why I kept my thoughts on ARTPOP to myself until now. No one cares

Except you guys Hallelu.

[Didymus 34,379]

8 hours ago, PartySick said:

And for the record, I have never and will never talk down to someone just because they have different taste than I do or they don't care to see what I see where I see it. If they don't like how the album sounds, they care more about commercial success and the era, or they just don't really have any desire to draw crazy conclusions like I do, to each his/her own

  Reveal hidden contents

Not that you accused me of doing it, I'm just saying 

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, sorry for the 13 hour late reply 

 

 

Nope, wasn't gunning for you at all indeed Agreed with that sentiment.

And no worries about the late reply. I'm happy someone replies at all, 'cause my posts here are a bitch to get through