ARTPOP Is More Creative Than Lemonade

[hmm 979]

9 minutes ago, Drunk Poet said:

Knew you'd bring that up; frankly, I gave that one to you out of pity because you don't have an argument. 

If you insist on making me repeat myself, I, in turn, am going to conclude you're not understanding a simple statement, and thus going to get frustrated, and call you simple. 

Broken down easily enough for you?

Very grateful for you pitying my incapable intellect in that case  

*That's not a concession of you being right though  

[HighlandHeart 993]

3 minutes ago, TheBatman said:

I can do an in depth analysis of a jar of mayonnaise if I wanted to, or the happy birthday song, or actual trash itself. Doesn't make it a masterpiece. ARTPOP is a piece of art. So is a Britney record, or the Wiggles. It's all art. Some art has more depth than others.

Okay now you're taking it a bit far. As I said before, art doesn't have to be good. So it's okay if you don'y like it. But if you're genuinely going to try and pass Britney Spears or the Wiggles as discographical works of art then I'm afraid I can no longer take you seriously. Yes, art doesn't have to be good. But in the modern era there is a fine line between art and complete nonsense, and trying to blur it is an insult to many artists. Next you'll be saying Kim Kardashian is a sociological performance persona that exposes the superficial desires of society and that one day she will be appreciated as a legend. We can dress anything up in fancy language dear.

[FameHookah 4,595]

On 25/4/2016 at 2:29 PM, Enigma said:

So you reduced everything Gaga did to face paint? Also like I said before, I don't hate Beyonce

That's gagadaily for ya

 

Everyone but gaga gets praised to heaven

Her work has "no meaning" for 80% of this site

 

Really sad and pathetic if you ask me

 

We used to praise her and analyse the layers of her art, now if we do we're "reaching" and called delusionals..

 

Beyonce is just an over rated product made by 81728183 writers producers etc.

[HighlandHeart 993]

2 minutes ago, hmm said:

Very grateful for you pitying my incapable intellect in that case  

It's so typical of people like you when others who love and understand art say it, or begin to speak about it, you start screaming words like 'pretentious' 'superior' etc. Happens all the time, mostly out of insecurity. Frankly, it's too easy for my liking. I could do the exact same thing when I don't understand something someone is trying to say. 

[crisTEAne 21,059]

10 minutes ago, TheBatman said:

I don't find ARTPOP to be that creative or interesting, and I went to art school, studied performance art, and work as a performer, and live as an artist. I added a track by track breakdown in the ARTPOP In Depth Analysis thread recently, so if you want, check it out. But as a human, an educated artist, and a working performer, not to mention fan of Gaga, I did not find ARTPOP that creative. Sorry.

i think that's sad. especially in the case of "an educated artist," whatever that implies.

6 minutes ago, TheBatman said:

Some art has more depth than others.

interesting statement from the mouth of "an educated artist." gaga would disagree, i think. so do i.

[TheBatman 951]

1 minute ago, Drunk Poet said:

. But if you're genuinely going to try and pass Britney Spears or the Wiggles as discographical works of art then I'm afraid I can no longer take you seriously. Yes, art doesn't have to be good. But in the modern era there is a fine line between art and complete nonsense, and trying to blur them is an insult to many artists. 

Oh but it is art, to every sound technician, producer, writer, photographer, designer, etc that worked their butt off to make that Britney record, it is their art. And even Britney is an artist, singing is an art, dancing is an art, collaborating on a stage show required artistry too. It IS art. It may be vapid and packaged for mass consumption, but it is still art. Just not that great.

 

WTF do you mean by discographical work of art? All I am saying, is to me, ARTPOP lacked the creativity and originality I had come to expect from Gaga, and did not have any discernible "soul".  And on topic, I found it less creative than Lemonade. 

[Harry 26,836]

1 minute ago, FameHookah said:

Beyonce is just an over rated product made by 81728183 writers producers etc.

I also don't understand this comment. Like there is any mainstream artist right now that doesn't have a major team behind them keeping the machine going - Gaga included. That's literally the Haus of Gaga. Is Gaga an overrated product because she has a team doing stuff for her?

Why does Applause have 8 writers and 5 producers for "I live for the applause applause applause I love for the applause-plause live for the applause-plause" ??

Y'all will contest that (and it's not something that I agree with either) but it's the exact same argument you use when you drag other artists for having additional credits.

1 minute ago, skeleton.gun said:

i think that's sad. especially in the case of "an educated artist," whatever that implies.

interesting statement from the mouth of "an educated artist." gaga would disagree, i think. so do i.

You're saying nothing here. Someone offered an opinion as an educated individual (are you?) and you just shot them down as "sad". Great critique. Very ARTPOP of you.

[FameHookah 4,595]

1 hour ago, Drunk Poet said:

Gaga did more than just "throw some paint on her face". If that's genuinely all you think she did I don't even know why you are here. This isn't a 'Beyonce hate campaign' it's a simple opinion. And to me, it's the correct one. Gaga delves deep into the madness and insanity of creativity and what it can do to creative minds, speaks openly about drug abuse, is honest about who she has sex with, what she eats, what she drinks. She experiments wildly with hooks and beats and baselines and even sonically cracks speakers, and pulls it off. She uses motifs and metaphors to highlight her sexuality, sexual positions, writes stunning poetry with abbreviated titles and wordplay. With her first single she tapped into a Shakespearian philosophy about the 'performer' and in Swine used an unconventional and experimental formula to scream at her perpetrator. A lot of people don't 'get' ARTPOP simply because of it's artistic and creative integrity and intelligence. 'Aura' was sonically 'insane' to illustrate how insane she feels. 'Swine' was 'full of that awful screaming' because she felt terrible and wanted to scream. Only Gaga could pull off such literal meanings in metaphorical ways, could be so experimental and yet make it work coherently. ARTPOP wasn't made for an easy listen to an easily digestible and common theme like indefinitely. To us writers and poets and artists and fans of art, it is just that: a work of art. Art isn't always pretty, and it also doesn't always have to be good. Art just is. And considering the vast majority of pop music listeners don't have the intellectual capacity (not always their fault) to understand art, doesn't make ARTPOP a f*cking bad album. Some people have incredible vanity to suggest ARTPOP is bad simply because they are intellectually deficient. It's genius and it's badass. 

Best post ever

THANK YOU

[hmm 979]

Just now, Drunk Poet said:

It's so typical of people like you when others who love and understand art say it, or begin to speak about it, you start screaming words like 'pretentious' 'superior' etc. Happens all the time, mostly out of insecurity. Frankly, it's too easy for my liking. I could do the exact same thing when I don't understand something someone is trying to say. 

Except nobody argued that it was "loving or understanding art" that made someone pretentious or believing themselves to be superior. It was obviously referring to your putting down of others as being "intellectually deficient"  

[HighlandHeart 993]

8 minutes ago, TheBatman said:

Oh but it is art, to every sound technician, producer, writer, photographer, designer, etc that worked their butt off to make that Britney record, it is their art. And even Britney is an artist, singing is an art, dancing is an art, collaborating on a stage show required artistry too. It IS art. It may be vapid and packaged for mass consumption, but it is still art. Just not that great.

 

WTF do you mean by discographical work of art? All I am saying, is to me, ARTPOP lacked the creativity and originality I had come to expect from Gaga, and did not have any discernible "soul".  And on topic, I found it less creative than Lemonade. 

I truly find it hard to believe you're an "educated artist." Did I ever say people didn't work hard on it? No. But I think you'll find that yes, they worked hard on mass-consumption aimed music for a particular reason: money. It's easy to call anything art these days, but if you're going to take it this far I'd like you to do an in-depth analysis of Britney, and the wiggles, structually, sonically and lyrically, and then try and justify that ridiculous statement. 

You've just proved my point. It was your expectations of Gaga that make you pass it off as soulless, not the actual material itself. To say that ARTPOP lacks soul is probably the most hilarious thing I've ever read on this forum. I'm not even going to have a dialogue with you anymore if you think that, I'd be wasting my time. 

In terms of actual artistic musicianship, to say that Lemonade is more 'creative' than ARTPOP, only serves to show which one you like better. Which is fine, I'm not judging you for liking it more, that is completely your right. But just because you like it more, you can't say it's more creative by saying you're an educated artist, it's absolutely nonsensical. 

[TheBatman 951]

4 minutes ago, skeleton.gun said:

i think that's sad. especially in the case of "an educated artist," whatever that implies.

interesting statement from the mouth of "an educated artist." gaga would disagree, i think. so do i.

It implies that when I went to university my majors were theatre and vocal performance, and while at university I was fortunate enough to study art history and take lots of really cool classes with amazing artists from around the world and learn so much and hone my craft.

 

You disagree that some art has more depth than others? So, the crayon drawing my 5 yr old niece did in five minutes has the same emotional depth as say Anthony Papa's 15 to life?

[Harry 26,836]

9 minutes ago, Drunk Poet said:

It's so typical of people like you when others who love and understand art say it, or begin to speak about it, you start screaming words like 'pretentious' 'superior' etc. Happens all the time, mostly out of insecurity. Frankly, it's too easy for my liking. I could do the exact same thing when I don't understand something someone is trying to say. 

Easy like calling people "intellectually deficient" because they aren't on board with a particular work?

Drunk indeed.

[TheBatman 951]

2 minutes ago, Drunk Poet said:

 I'd like you to do an in-depth analysis of Britney, and the wiggles, structually, sonically and lyrically, and then try and justify that ridiculous statement. 

You've just proved my point. It was your expectations of Gaga that make you pass it off as soulless, not the actual material itself. To say that ARTPOP lacks soul is probably the most hilarious thing I've ever read on this forum. I'm not even going to have a dialogue with you anymore if you think that, I'd be wasting my time. 

Challenge accepted! lol This should be fun.

It wasn't my expectation that hurt the reception, in fact if anything my high regard for Gaga made me enjoy the record more than I would have. I'm interested what other albums you find have a lot of that soul we are talking about? There was a lot of soul on BTW. But lets talk outside Gaga for a second, just so I know where you are coming from.

[crisTEAne 21,059]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

ou're saying nothing here. Someone offered an opinion as an educated individual (are you?) and you just shot them down as "sad". Great critique. Very ARTPOP of you.

i'm saying everything there: i find it sad that a self-proclaimed artist educated in the arts is unable to find the artistic merits of ARTPOP when the idea behind the whole project was artistic freedom. now i also find it ironic.

yes, i'm educated, thanks for asking. my classes at uni are connected to cultural studies, literary as well as film theory and history.

[HighlandHeart 993]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Easy like calling people "intellectually deficient" because they aren't on board with a particular work?

Drunk indeed.

You are being pathetic and childish, and yet again, misquoting me. ONCE AGAIN, I didn't say people are dumb if they are not on board with a particular work, I said that if they don't give artistic credit where its due, and write a work of art off as not being creative simply because they don't like it, instead of justifying how it isn't artistic, it only serves to show how they know nothing about art. If they do understand art, understand that ARTPOP is artistic, but don't like the album, that's fine. Because art is not there to be liked. 

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to repeat myself for you. Looks like I'm the one who touched a nerve, you seem very insecure about this. 

And using my username to try and justify your senseless point is perhaps as pathetic as it can get. You've proved my point for me.