Why ARTPOP Is A Masterpiece

[TheBatman 951]

6 minutes ago, Stitches said:

It isn't soulless because you can't connect to it. It is "soulless" to you because AP is for us a look into her world. It is not meant to connet with you and your experiences. All the songs have their stories and emotions.

DWUW - A peak at how controlled she is due to not wanting to lose fame, and how badly the media beats her up.

Dope - Fame and fortune have caused her so much pain, in disastrous levels even.

Applause - Her feelings towards her fans, and pointing out thatthey can be reluctant.

Gypsy - Her missing people dear to her because of what she does.

And I could go on. Just because you can't understand and appreciate something for what it is, don't call it soulless. I'd rather call you selfish for not understanding something that is not all about you.

I understand the statements she was making on the songs, it's not like they were clever or subtle. Fine, it has a soul, a shallow one. I connected to it the same way I would a Kylie Minogue record for the most part (or Britney): fun fluff. Nothing interesting, no main course, just sugary treats. Nothing wrong with that, but not a masterpiece. 

[Yanko 9,860]

[Neal 768]

Lol if ARTPOP had as much hype and success and talk Lemonade is having now it would be praised to high heavens.

I remember when ARTPOP came out, the general consensus was it was the Second Coming of Jesus, but the numbers rolled in... Not even bad numbers, just on a lower spectrum than was usual for Gaga... Then the Little Managers were born.

This fanbase is the worst, and best at the same time. 

[Dominic 11,922]

It's the only album that I feel has aged badly.  Fame is 8 years old and that doesn't sound as dated as some of the tracks on ARTPOP.  A messy album as a result of messy management. I honestly believe the vision Gaga had back in 2012 would have been a masterpiece but we never got that result.  

I care about sales but I don't let that change my opinion of the music itself. 

[Bebe 17,093]

The problem I have with ARTPOP (especially post C2C, post tributes, post TIHTY) is that Gaga began to feel more one note. It felt like she wasn't really living up to her potential, she was stuck in this rut where she wanted to keep making music for her fans but also desperately wanted to rebel from the image she had built.

I think the most exciting thing about Gaga is the feeling that she could always do something different. She could release a rock album, she could make some conceptual Björk type music, she could go classical or she could release an album of ballads. She felt dangerous in the sense that she was unpredictable, she could do anything.

I feel like with C2C she actually regained that a little. It sounds odd but singing traditional Jazz with Tony Bennett made Gaga seem more spontaneous and unpredictable again.
 

She proved she could still surprise us with something that was unlike anything we had seen from her.
 

She proved she could sing classic rock songs. She didn't have to rely on the choreographed numbers to blow everyone away as an entertainer.
 

She proved she could still be daring, flamboyant and polarizing as a performer.

It showed that Gaga could move beyond the TFM type popstar that we had previously seen. It seemed more unpredictable because she almost completely strayed away from the Gaga we knew, it was new territory and she excelled.

In comparison ARTPOP seemed a lot like the same old Gaga. There were cool moments throughout, but for the most part it seemed like more electro-pop songs. It seemed like the third or fourth sequel.

I mean, I love G.U.Y but this is a classic Gaga song and video.

It didn't seem bold anymore. It seemed like more of the same.

Even while she tried to rebel, it seemed within certain restraints. More pop, more electronic sounds, more choreography, more outrageous outfits. She just didn't seem to be as exciting or polarising as she once was.

The highlights of the era in my opinion where the times she really broke out of that TFM/BTW formula or out of the pop star box all together (SwineFest, SXSW, Her collabs with Robert Wilson and Marina Abramović).

For me ARTPOP fell short because it didn't seem daring enough. It seemed like, although she wanted to rebel, she was still afraid to break out of the comfort of her box.  

ARTPOP seemed like she didn't want to risk the comfort that pop gave her (adoration, fans, a platform, a big budget) so wrote over electronic beats (Gaga herself admits that she couldn't even touch her piano because she would be like 'Why the f*ck am I making this music?'). But at the same time she wanted to be transgressive, different, unconventional and have the depth of her art idols. The merging of ARTPOP seemed more an excuse and attempt to be both safe yet transgressive. That's why, imo, it feels so incohesive and 'messy'. She was split between the fear of losing her fanbase and her platform as a popstar and her desire to push boundaries and make something really counter cultural. 

Her fear of failure, her fear of losing what she had ended up holding her back.

[LaLuna 12,732]

I love ARTPOP but if you think it's a masterpiece, then may I suggest you start expanding your musical horizons because clearly you haven't listened to much music outside of pop in your life. 

 

[JDi 1,495]

it's something you have to stop trying to prove.

some people here like Nicki Minaj for the same reasons they like Gaga.

it won't work.

[JDi 1,495]

2 minutes ago, TheCountess said:

I love ARTPOP but if you think it's a masterpiece, then may I suggest you start expanding your musical horizons because clearly you haven't listened to much music outside of pop in your life. 

 

just because "Station to Station" (for instance, for obvious reasons) is a 6-track cocaine-driven orchestral rock masterpiece doesn't mean an electronic dance pop album can't be a masterpiece. there's not many better ones in the genre. and even fewer are pop star releases.

[Evan Peters 10,738]

2 hours ago, Snow said:

Nope. Absolutely and utterly substandard album & era.

aren't you the user who finds somethinng to bitch about in everything gaga does or am i confusing you with two other annoying members

[Kayla 7,595]

19 hours ago, Mister Gaga said:

Gaga wasn't lying when she said that ARTPOP was TFM little sister. Are Applause and Paparazzi really different? Monster and Swine? Dance in The Dark and DWUW?Not for me...it's the EDM version of TFM. Every song talks about a different issue related to fame (or a fear about it), and it has it's own wonderful production. It's a beautiful album, with so many different messages that sometimes it's difficult to understand! But once you get into it...

  Hide contents

but i won't be hypocrite. Jewels n Drugs is AWFUL. The rest is beyond flawless. Her best album after BTW.

 

Your post bringing up the "little sister" thing made me realize something...ARTPOP doesn't seem like TFM's little sister- it's like a mature TF trying to hold on to it's youthful inspiration while balancing awareness and new sense of maturity. 

Conceptually- ART in POP, the albums line up. They are both referring to Fame, but AP is a more "experienced" version. Like...TFM is the dark side of Fame, AP is the informed side of Fame. 

Even the songs have their parallels: (I'm going to look at TF from the "layers" to the songs perspective, so even the ones about partying/sex are somewhat Gaga referring to Fame itself- LoveGame, for example)
-
Just Dance - Mary Jane Holland (Have fun to get through the hard times, except now instead of getting trashed at a house party she's smoking weed in Amsterdam)
-
LoveGame - Swine (LoveGame of course is a song about a one night stand, but it's also Gaga seducing the Pop industry - "Do you want love or you want fame?" But consider that "Monster" on TFM is also about Fame more or less raping her- "We french kissed on a subway train (LoveGame music video), He tore my clothes right off, He ate my heart and then he ate my brain," - "That boy is a Monster, (the evil sides of Fame)," so Swine would be the painfully aware version of what happened to her, the anger for what happened to her as she was misled by the people she became involved with- she thought she was running the game, but there were some swine who came in and took advantage of her)
-
Paparazzi - Do What U Want (Paparazzi is about wooing the Paparazzi. DWUW is Gaga saying they can't use her mind because it belongs to her. Both are about being in control of how the media manipulates and uses you, but while Paparazzi was Gaga's way of saying "You're wonderful! Give me what I want!", DWUW is Gaga's way of saying "**** you, I'm in charge- these are the parts of me you are allowed to use.")
-
Beautiful, Dirty, Rich - Dope (BDR Gaga said was about rich kids who'd ask their parents for money claiming to be starving artists but then would go out and buy drugs, so Dope would be the fallout of that - the addiction left after the party is over, after you grow up and can't rely on your parents)
-
Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say) -  MANiCURE (Both are about moving on from a previous relationship, although MC fits better farther down)
-
Pokerface - Venus (PokerFace was about having sex with a guy while thinking of women, Venus is about exploring sex with a woman and embracing womanhood)
-
The Fame - Donatella (Gaga herself said "Fame" to her is something you create for yourself and exude; the song here is meant to be sarcastic, a parody. Donatella is also a parody of a rich lifestyle, but it's also acknowledging the way it's misunderstood - even look here "because we got a taste for champagne," and "I'm gonna smoke Marlboro reds and drink champagne")
-
Money Honey - Jewels n' Drugs (Money Honey is about liking the rich stuff, but the real "money" is "when you give me k-kisses," and JND kinda follows that same concept- "don't want your money, want your love," except now instead of a girl dating rich people she's the rich one)
-
Again Again - Sexxx Dreams (Both songs are sung as if she's talking to someone she wants to be with while she's already in a relationship, but in AA it's " I can't have you, it isn't fair," and SD is "Last night, damn you were in my sex dreams")
-
Boys Boys Boys - G.U.Y. (BBB is like Gaga convincing a guy to be with her while explaining what she wants, but with a lack of power- she starts out by complimenting him "think you're really hot," says things they could do together "make out in the bleachers," lists out her 'qualities' "not psychotic or dramatic," and reassures that she's not something serious "I like boys and that is that." But then G.U.Y. isn't about Gaga submissively catering to a man, it's about her being submissive, yes, but owning her power in that role and making it clear she's not here to be your fun fling that gets discarded. Also, lyrcs: BBB "I like you a lot, lot, all we want is hot, hot-" and G.U.Y. "I just want it to be hot,")
-
Brown Eyes - MANiCURE (Brown Eyes is about a man leaving Gaga to be with an ex, MANiCURE is about being healed from a broken heart, cured of the pain men have brought her.)
-
Summerboy - Gypsy (While she drives around the town with her "Summerboy," Gaga travels the world with the person she's referring to in Gypsy. Summerboy is something fun for the summer, Gypsy is something you commit to for life. In SB they're "going for a ride," but in Gypsy they're "busting the rearview and firing up the jets")

 

 

Now, this leaves some leftover ARTPOP songs: ARTPOP, Fashion!, and Applause.

ARTPOP: It's about a true hybridization of ART and POP. I think this song could be a projection of the future. ARTPOP, the song, go above what TF and AP brought - ARTPOP, song, is about the true marriage of the two and what comes next. 
- 
Fashion!: Gaga embracing the success she's received after everything. The Fame sung about getting success, Fashion! is about having it. 
-
Applause: In The Fame, Gaga constantly goes between Love and Fame- which does she want? In Applause she finds a way to have both- she has the love of her fans and their applause- their praise. And she recognizes that she needs both. 

[TropicOfCANCER 6,292]

why do so many people confuse the term "ironic" with the term "sarcastic?"

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

22 minutes ago, TropicOfCANCER said:

why do so many people confuse the term "ironic" with the term "sarcastic?"

In all fairness it's pretty easy to mix them up. I know I do sometimes. Can you please explain the difference?

[Kayla 7,595]

2 hours ago, Bebe said:

The problem I have with ARTPOP (especially post C2C, post tributes, post TIHTY) is that Gaga began to feel more one note. It felt like she wasn't really living up to her potential, she was stuck in this rut where she wanted to keep making music for her fans but also desperately wanted to rebel from the image she had built.

I think the most exciting thing about Gaga is the feeling that she could always do something different. She could release a rock album, she could make some conceptual Björk type music, she could go classical or she could release an album of ballads. She felt dangerous in the sense that she was unpredictable, she could do anything.

I feel like with C2C she actually regained that a little. It sounds odd but singing traditional Jazz with Tony Bennett made Gaga seem more spontaneous and unpredictable again.
 

She proved she could still surprise us with something that was unlike anything we had seen from her.
 

She proved she could sing classic rock songs. She didn't have to rely on the choreographed numbers to blow everyone away as an entertainer.
 

She proved she could still be daring, flamboyant and polarizing as a performer.

It showed that Gaga could move beyond the TFM type popstar that we had previously seen. It seemed more unpredictable because she almost completely strayed away from the Gaga we knew, it was new territory and she excelled.

In comparison ARTPOP seemed a lot like the same old Gaga. There were cool moments throughout, but for the most part it seemed like more electro-pop songs. It seemed like the third or fourth sequel.

I mean, I love G.U.Y but this is a classic Gaga song and video.

It didn't seem bold anymore. It seemed like more of the same.

Even while she tried to rebel, it seemed within certain restraints. More pop, more electronic sounds, more choreography, more outrageous outfits. She just didn't seem to be as exciting or polarising as she once was.

The highlights of the era in my opinion where the times she really broke out of that TFM/BTW formula or out of the pop star box all together (SwineFest, SXSW, Her collabs with Robert Wilson and Marina Abramović).

For me ARTPOP fell short because it didn't seem daring enough. It seemed like, although she wanted to rebel, she was still afraid to break out of the comfort of her box.  

ARTPOP seemed like she didn't want to risk the comfort that pop gave her (adoration, fans, a platform, a big budget) so wrote over electronic beats (Gaga herself admits that she couldn't even touch her piano because she would be like 'Why the f*ck am I making this music?'). But at the same time she wanted to be transgressive, different, unconventional and have the depth of her art idols. The merging of ARTPOP seemed more an excuse and attempt to be both safe yet transgressive. That's why, imo, it feels so incohesive and 'messy'. She was split between the fear of losing her fanbase and her platform as a popstar and her desire to push boundaries and make something really counter cultural. 

Her fear of failure, her fear of losing what she had ended up holding her back.

This is a really phenomenal analysis. I'm in full agreement, specifically with the bolded parts. 

I think Gaga's whole career has been about combining ART and POP, and ARTPOP was meant to be her album that showed that very directly. But then she got afraid or for other reasons was unable to go all in on that concept. So the things that were very "art" ended up falling to the background and the idea of bringing art to the forefront did not transpire the way she initially wanted it to.

I mean, if you listened only to the music you'd have no idea what the concept of the album was meant to be- the music didn't speak for itself regarding the "bring art into pop" concept. 
The Fame spoke for itself, The Fame Monster spoke for itself, and Born This Way spoke for itself. ARTPOP was an album with good intentions that could not speak for itself. 

 

58 minutes ago, TropicOfCANCER said:

why do so many people confuse the term "ironic" with the term "sarcastic?"

I'm guilty.  

[Bad Bromance 5,809]

To me, ARTPOP is an amazing album.  I love every single track, including the not-so-popular Jewels & Drugs, Dope and Fashion!  This album makes me want to dance and also gets me so emotional with songs like Dope and Mary Jane Holland. 

No one should be bashing anyone on this thread because we all have different opinions.  That being said, please be respectful if you happen to disagree with someone who has a different opinion from yours.   

[Dominic 11,922]

2 hours ago, Evan Peters said:

aren't you the user who finds somethinng to bitch about in everything gaga does or am i confusing you with two other annoying members

Probably me