Gaga has the greatest National Anthem of all time

[AlexanderLevi2 5,849]

Just now, Bebe said:

The meat dress example absolutely makes sense. If some chick in the future came out wearing a dress made of lasers and a hat beaming out electricity and it caused this huge cultural moment then that's amazing and could be among the greatest fashion moments of all time. You can't just compare that Gaga's meat dress and say that this artist 'topped' her though, like... You just can't. You join the ranks, you can't top huge cultural moments like that.

How exactly can you top Whitney's performance though? I don't care how great your voice is, Whitney performed the song to the highest standard and it became such an incredibly huge cultural moment.

I've already said that if someone prefers Gaga's interpretation then that's fine, it comes down to taste. My point is you can't just 'top' these huge cultural moments - you can only hope to stand beside them as equals.

I'm just going to stop cause I'm very wrong. You are right about everything. 

[Bebe 17,106]

2 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Don't you get that Gaga was just was better TO ME? And I am not taking Whitney's impact away or ignoring because I am simply talking about the performance itself. If I said that Gaga had more impact then Whitney, then you would be right to call me out by saying this too soon. But as far as quality itself, there is no disrespect toward Whitney and there is also no point in me waiting to say this.

"Don't you get that Gaga was just was better TO ME?"

But I already said it was fine if you prefer Gaga's performance to Whitney's? Literally the second post I made in this thread stated

"Whitney's performance is the gold standard. If you prefer Gaga's performance then fine, that's to do with taste, but the impact of Whitney's performance is incredible. Artists can only dream that their national anthem will sit beside Whitney as one of the greats, topping Whitney just isn't something you can do."

You might prefer Gaga's performance, but you can't say she topped Whitney. It's just not something that can be done. 

[somnambulist 1,526]

52 minutes ago, Metamorphosis said:

She did not outdo Whitney whatsoever. Gaga did a great job, but Whitney's was amazing not only because of her voice (despite it being live or not), but also because it was re-released right after the 9/11 attacks. It was a historical and patriotic moment for all Americans. Its disrepsectful to say that Gaga's was better. And that is my honest opinion.

.......what? She didnt SING it after the 9/11 attacks, they simply re-released it after the attacks because it sounded so damned good. They could literally use gagas version after a big event and it would be just as meaningful considering the quality. 

[Shaney 5,515]

1 hour ago, Metamorphosis said:

That's disrespectful to Whitney Houston on so many levels.

Just cuz' she's dead we have to suck her nips and say she will forever and always have the best superbowl performance? idts.

[Quark 7,098]

5 minutes ago, Bebe said:

"Don't you get that Gaga was just was better TO ME?"

But I already said it was fine if you prefer Gaga's performance to Whitney's? Literally the second post I made in this thread stated

"Whitney's performance is the gold standard. If you prefer Gaga's performance then fine, that's to do with taste, but the impact of Whitney's performance is incredible. Artists can only dream that their national anthem will sit beside Whitney as one of the greats, topping Whitney just isn't something you can do."

You might prefer Gaga's performance, but you can't say she topped Whitney. It's just not something that can be done. 

Yes I can. We just view things differently. But we are just going in circles now, so lets just agree to disagree.

[Bebe 17,106]

3 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Yes I can. We just view things differently. But we are just going in circles now, so lets just agree to disagree.

You really can't, but you're right we are going in circles. I just think it would be more respectful to say that you prefer Gaga's rendition rather than Gaga topped Whitney's rendition.

[Quark 7,098]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

You really can't, but you're right we are going in circles. I just think it would be more respectful to say that you prefer Gaga's rendition rather than Gaga topped Whitney's rendition.

Your response basically highlight why we keep disagreeing. You found what I said to be disrespectful while I didn't. I do respect Whitney though.

[Bebe 17,106]

3 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Your response basically highlight why we keep disagreeing. You found what I said to be disrespectful while I didn't. I do respect Whitney though.

Yes, we both agree on this. I find saying that Gaga "topped" Whitney's performance is disrespectful because I don't think it's possible to top such a moment and you don't find it disrespectful.

I find this sort of competition distasteful, you thrive on it.

[Quark 7,098]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

Yes, we both agree on this. I find saying that Gaga "topped" Whitney's performance is disrespectful because I don't think it's possible to top such a moment and you don't find it disrespectful.

I find this sort of competition distasteful, you thrive on it.

In a way, is sort of impossible to not compare people/things tbh.

[Bebe 17,106]

Just now, Enigma said:

In a way, is sort of impossible to not compare people/things tbh.

I didn't mention anything about comparison in what you quoted... There's a difference between comparing two performances in terms of what you personally prefer and comparing them in terms of "Who is better than who, what artist topped the other artist" however.

My problem was and continues to be your use of the word "topped". As stated, I don't think moments like Whitney's performance can be topped. You might compare Gaga's performance with those of the greats, like Whitney but you can't "top" you can only join the ranks.

I would find is respectful to say "I think Gaga's performance was good enough to be compared to Whitney Houston's iconic performance! I actually prefer Gaga's personally!" but I find it disrespectful to say "I think Gaga topped Whitney's performance". I still don't think that can be done.

[Quark 7,098]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

I didn't mention anything about comparison in what you quoted... There's a difference between comparing two performances in terms of what you personally prefer and comparing them in terms of "Who is better than who, what artist topped the other artist" however.

My problem was and continues to be your use of the word "topped". As stated, I don't think moments like Whitney's performance can be topped. You might compare Gaga's performance with those of the greats, like Whitney but you can't "top" you can only join the ranks.

I would find is respectful to say "I think Gaga's performance was good enough to be compared to Whitney Houston's iconic performance! I actually prefer Gaga's personally!" but I find it disrespectful to say "I think Gaga topped Whitney's performance". I still don't think that can be done.

So if I think the quality of something is better than another thing, wouldn't that mean that one thing topped the other thing?

[mic 1,415]

I think Gaga's vocals are great, but still being objective I can see they are a little bit too shaky at times. 

Dont get me wrong, she did a great job, but it wasn't flaw-free like whitneys. Props for singing live though. 

[Bebe 17,106]

Just now, Enigma said:

So if I think the quality of something is better than another thing, wouldn't that mean that one thing topped the other thing?

*Sigh* 

I don't think you can even say Gaga's performance is of better quality...  That's kinda part of the problem with this whole "topping" business. They are different performers who did a different rendition.

Whitney's rendition is technically perfect, epic, rousing and inspired a giant emotional reaction from the entire country, a reaction so strong that it was brought up again 10 years later when tragedy struck on 9/11.

Gaga's rendition is technically brilliant too, but was slower, gentler and without the band behind her.  It brought about immediate and well deserved praise.

These are clearly two different renditions, it's more than ok to say that you prefer Gaga's rendition... But that has nothing to do with quality? You can't really say that Whitney's performance was of a lesser quality... That really does just seem ignorant.

Why isn't it enough for you to just say you perfer Gaga's rendition? Why does it have to be a competition? Why can't you comprehend that two different artists could perform the same song different ways and both be of equal quality?

When you start talking about the "quality" of a performance and start talking about artists "topping" each other then not only are you not allowing any nuance but you are moving away from this being about personal taste which is what you claim this is about...

[Quark 7,098]

3 minutes ago, Bebe said:

*Sigh* 

I don't think you can even say Gaga's performance is of better quality...  That's kinda part of the problem with this whole "topping" business. They are different performers who did a different rendition.

Whitney's rendition is technically perfect, epic, rousing and inspired a giant emotional reaction from the entire country, a reaction so strong that it was brought up again 10 years later when tragedy struck on 9/11.

Gaga's rendition is technically brilliant too, but was slower, gentler and without the band behind her.  It brought about immediate and well deserved praise.

These are clearly two different renditions, it's more than ok to say that you prefer Gaga's rendition... But that has nothing to do with quality? You can't really say that Whitney's performance was of a lesser quality... That really does just seem ignorant.

Why isn't it enough for you to just say you perfer Gaga's rendition? Why does it have to be a competition? Why can't you comprehend that two different artists could perform the same song different ways and both be of equal quality?

When you start talking about the "quality" of a performance and start talking about artists "topping" each other then not only are you not allowing any nuance but you are moving away from this being about personal taste which is what you claim this is about...

But you keep bringing things outside the performance as the reason Whitney Houston is better. I just don't agree with how you make the argument that Whitney can't be topped.

[Bebe 17,106]

Just now, Enigma said:

But you keep bringing things outside the performance as the reason Whitney Houston is better. I just don't agree with how you make the argument that Whitney can't be topped.

I've always maintained that it was Whitney's voice first of all the led to the reaction. Also let's not get hypocritical when your main argument with everyone here has been "she is receiving universal acclaim for her performance " and "many among the GP also agree with me."

It's not like you are the only one who can point towards how the rendition was recieved outside of any personal feelings towards the performance.

Beyond that though, I think ignoring the cultural importance of that performance (that not any artist would be able to pull off) is just hugely ignorant. You can't just strip Whitney's rendition of any historical or cultural significance... You can certainly say, as I have said multiple times, that you prefer how Gaga sang the song - that doesn't mean you can ignore the impact and cultural relevance of Whitney's performance and claim Gaga topped her though.

It isn't a damn competition, two artists can stand side by side. Both ladies did a tremendous job, if you think Gaga's rendition is up there with the likes of Whitney then fantastic! If you prefer Gaga's rendition over Whitney's then fantastic! You can not objectively claim that Gaga "topped" Whitney's performance. I mean by what standards did Gaga top Whitney anyway?