Bambino 24,290 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'm just gonna say that I haven't been taking anything she says seriously. And it's been like that for a while now. She contradicts herself so much. She makes a lot of what she does sound complicated. Like, is it so hard for her to keep things simple when they should be? And no, simple isn't always boring. Also, she says she's something then she does the complete opposite of it. She's talented but sometimes she should just stop. Either be who you really say you are, or try the hardest not to contradict yourself because it doesn't make you look good. But then again, who doesn't do all that? Everyone is like that but not everyone has millions of fans who follow you and look up to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman 189 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 39 minutes ago, JackTheTripper said: Also is it so wrong of me, for being perplexed when she is crying that she always wanted to be taken seriously for her music and not her body? I suppose a lot of women are confused should they hear a man say he wishes to be taken seriously for his music and not his wallet. Does this mean though that he shouldn't have a wallet or is it a question of how she see's his wallet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarstruckIllusion 52,916 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Didymus said: Well, why do you see the Emotion Revolution talk as such a babystep/milestone? Why shouldn't anything before it count anymore, I don't understand that.. Anyway, I actually don't disagree with the rest of your post. You're probably right about the gay icon thing and I agree that celebrities showing "support" for political issues is absolutely retarded (cue Selena talking about Palestine as if she ever even read the Wiki page of the conflict). I don't really agree with your example of the Fame Kills tour being cancelled because Kanye thought it was "too gay" (if that's what you're implying anyway). She made statements about how she wanted the show itself to be "gay" (whatever the hell that meant) but as far as I can see, there's no reason to believe Kanye had a problem with that. I also don't think the BTW era was thàt challenging for the audience, as I already said here. Her support against DIDT was in 2010, not in 2011/12. I think people here have a very skewed vision of what the BTW era was about, as if she only started to talk about gay rights in 2011 or something. Wildly untrue and your own example of the Fame Kills Tour is a perfect illustration of that. I don't think her being too "preachy" had anything to do with it either since her only preachy song on the album was her biggest era success, she talked more about how much she loved her fans than about equality etc. (which she had already talked about non-stop since she started out) and she was already criticized for preaching during her MB 2.0 tour. I personally can't see the "she became too radical for her audience" idea that explains BTW's failure in terms of commercial expansion as anything but an excuse for that exact same failure. Anyway, I already gave my version of what I think happened, so I won't repeat that here. Gaga and Kanye had creative differences, and even 50 cent m, Kanye's peer, called it "the gay tour". I swear it even said once on Gaga's Wikipedia that Kanye said its so gay, but it's gone now so idk. But that's my point. Gaga took big risks for the LGBT community and so she is absolutely an activist in that area. Also, I never said that Gaga wasn't preachy before BTW. It's just that she decided to make that her forefront, and Gaga being preachy is what people said and why they didn't like her, cuz you kno those gurls don't like the outspoken... I mean, before you could only get that preachy stuff TF(M) had in only interviews, rallies and tours, which can be avoided and was by most, but Born This Way was such a giant, and Gaga was in everyone's face with that song, she was just too prevalent to ignore back then, which is why what Monsters are probably referring too, is how the era was heavily focused on homophobia, not nearly as much as she was before Born This Way. As for the stuff she did before not counting, I'm essentially-but no definetly (bc its more complex than that) saying to forget that, because she said she wanted to be a better activist after all that happened, and the Emotion Revolution is her *first step towards doing that. Basically, I don't see the point in bringing her uneducated statements from the past into the present if she's trying to get away from that, in the right way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, ROARyals said: Gaga and Kanye had creative differences, and even 50 cent m, Kanye's peer, called it "the gay tour". I swear it even said once on Gaga's Wikipedia that Kanye said its so gay, but it's gone now so idk. But that's my point. Gaga took big risks for the LGBT community and so she is absolutely an activist in that area. Also, I never said that Gaga wasn't preachy before BTW. It's just that she decided to make that her forefront, and Gaga being preachy is what people said and why they didn't like her, cuz you kno those gurls don't like the outspoken... I mean, before you could only get that preachy stuff TF(M) had in only interviews, rallies and tours, which can be avoided and was by most, but Born This Way was such a giant, and Gaga was in everyone's face with that song, she was just too prevalent to ignore back then, which is why what Monsters are probably referring too, is how the era was heavily focused on homophobia, not nearly as much as she was before Born This Way. As for the stuff she did before not counting, I'm essentially-but no definetly (bc its more complex than that) saying to forget that, because she said she wanted to be a better activist after all that happened, and the Emotion Revolution is her *first step towards doing that. Basically, I don't see the point in bringing her uneducated statements from the past into the present if she's trying to get away from that, in the right way. Oh ok. Then I get your points better now. It's true that Gaga's gay activism etc. was seen as something that was part of her career pre-2011 but I do think it's accurate to say that she for a time became fully equated with gay activism during the BTW era and her work almost took a backseat (which she herself acknowledged, not with approval, if I remember correctly). Sad that for ARTPOP her work took a backseat as well That's why LG5 will be so amazing. Everyone wants to see her WORK now and everyone's curious. Must be a lovely change for her. I actually wasn't aware that she said she wanted to be a better activist there But I did notice the way she spoke about women in music in the Billboard magazine and on the event when she accepted her award and that definitely sounded a lot more down to earth and grounded (and eloquent) so that made me curious for what's coming next for sure And well, I agree about bringing in past mistakes, I don't like when people do that to me either But I only brought it up here because it was actually relevant for the topic (just me saying that I think it's inappropriate to call her a political artist at this point of her career) and because people elaborated on what I said in my first post about her "political faux pas". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTheTripper 866 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 20 minutes ago, deeman said: I suppose a lot of women are confused should they hear a man say he wishes to be taken seriously for his music and not his wallet. Does this mean though that he shouldn't have a wallet or is it a question of how she see's his wallet? If that same man is parading around braging about his bucks than he shouldnt ber suprised when people connnect him with his wallet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingF 485 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Alex C said: "...ask your gay friends their advice, before you" Even tho I understand that she is being sarcastic towards women who base their aesthetic on "yes-men" who happen to be gay most of the times, her tone in that line felt.... "let's include a lyric so that the str8 fans feel I am not in the BTW era/mentality anymore" 'before you GET A SPRAY TAN', WHAT a KNOB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTheTripper 866 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 This will be my last post here, i was and still am Gagas supporter no matter what, but if its one thing that bothers me its when someone is lying, its not about 10 years period and her believes changing, it just happends to often, and im sorry that bothers me, and it bother me even more, beacuse she is always talking avbout integrity and standing for what you believe, and how she hates artist lies... so tell me is it so wrong of me, for point that out? im not critisizing her artistic or muscial choices, im talking about simple strightforward honesty- i dont think i am overreacting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy232000 11,768 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 stopped reading at "homophobic lyric in donatella".... this post doesnt make sense to me at all. how was ARTPOP "playing it safe?" and she never became a mega star by writing political statements...ever. i feel you missed the whole point of ARTPOP if you say she sold her artistic integrity whereas she fought for the exact opposite. also that fact that she is trying to "dismiss BTW" is a huge reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy232000 11,768 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Alex C said: Oh, I'm sorry. I meant to say, that she remained politically silenced through her artistry: Her videos, her lyrics, her melodies. I really do not know if I should be giving attention to such tweets, because the twitter medium is not enough to substain a political discourse, plus I really don't trust it, in terms of, if she's writing what she writes, or is dictated, "advised". i also feel there wasn´t room for political comments on ARTPOP. the whole thematic just doesnt match with them and it makes no sense with the "put the artist in control" background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefamebitch 834 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Let's be honest with ourselves. She needs to be a PR goddess after the entire ARTPOP era. There's no doubt about it. She's shut her mouth and let her talent speak instead of her supposed "antics" which consistently turned off the public. For the first time, the majority respects her not only as an artist, but as a person. She's a smart woman, the rebel is still there, she's just building up much needed momentum again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman 189 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 37 minutes ago, JackTheTripper said: If that same man is parading around braging about his bucks than he shouldnt ber suprised when people connnect him with his wallet 37 minutes ago, JackTheTripper said: If that same man is parading around braging about his bucks than he shouldnt ber suprised when people connnect him with his wallet How many guys get anywhere with an empty wallet? Suppose the wallet can be representing the art or the music or more precisely his creativity or the fruits therof. It could also be the product of more destructive non creative activity. If it is seen as a wallet regardless of the source of the income the reason behind it's existance then it matters not what the music is irrelevant. So somebody could see the music in the wallet coz should they be in allignment then they would be one and the same thing and if they saw as such they would be supporting the man in being the man and wish to see his wallet used too its maximum extent in fulfilling the creative purpose of it's existance. If a woman then and I am not saying a body is like a wallet not really but it is something women can use and often do so my analogy is that it is the way you are looking rather than the fact of looking. Why shouldn't someone use their body or their wallet especially given that they are not exactly born into an already functional world. It is like me I have money I am sure is coming from things I disagree with it pisses me off but im still taking the money coz i have plans to use it for better things. I contradict myself therefore coz it just isn't so simple to make money in totally creative way when coming from fairly destructive place on your own without support from the society. hmm a bit sloppy post but might aswell post it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTheTripper 866 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, deeman said: How many guys get anywhere with an empty wallet? Suppose the wallet can be representing the art or the music or more precisely his creativity or the fruits therof. It could also be the product of more destructive non creative activity. If it is seen as a wallet regardless of the source of the income the reason behind it's existance then it matters not what the music is irrelevant. So somebody could see the music in the wallet coz should they be in allignment then they would be one and the same thing and if they saw as such they would be supporting the man in being the man and wish to see his wallet used too its maximum extent in fulfilling the creative purpose of it's existance. If a woman then and I am not saying a body is like a wallet not really but it is something women can use and often do so my analogy is that it is the way you are looking rather than the fact of looking. Why shouldn't someone use their body or their wallet especially given that they are not exactly born into an already functional world. It is like me I have money I am sure is coming from things I disagree with it pisses me off but im still taking the money coz i have plans to use it for better things. I contradict myself therefore coz it just isn't so simple to make money in totally creative way when coming from fairly destructive place. hmm a bit sloppy post but might aswell post it. I find it hard to see what your point is, but i will try to answer you, The topic that you quoted me was Gags intention to be clebrated for her music, songwriting and composing, and not for her body. while i dont think there is anything bad in clebrating your body,, but why said you wanted people to pay antention to your music AND NOT TO your body- if you are posting naked pictures of yourself for the whole world to see, her selling her image and her naked body was during her whole career BEING AS IMPORTAND FOR HER AS HER MUSIC.... and i had no porblem with that. but why now act like the last 8 years of her career didnt happend? verry strange Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewStevens 5,249 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, Didymus said: Well, I have thought of that but too bad that you're not sharing yours This is literally what you have said on topic: "You're reading too much into it. The song is a satire and no one would ever write a song like that thinking that the song is appealing for straight men." (about like 1% of the OP, completely ignoring the rest) "When this thread changed from "what ARTPOP lacked was this" to "let's discuss all the times Gag's was an ignorant stupid white privileged American"? Of course she has double standards and ignores a lot of things. Everyone does it, it's impossible not to do so." (again only focusing on 1% of everything I had posted in three pages and misrepresenting the OP) After that I quoted you saying that we were discussing a lot more than what you claimed and I gave you a perfectly unpersonal reply where I shared my perspective about contradictions and how you should react to people (or yourself) having them. The only "personal" thing I said there was that you didnt read the OP well, which I based on your first and second post (and which I explained). You reply, again focusing on a minor part of my post just to basically repeat what you have already said: that I was insulting her and that I had no business doing that. That has been your main argument for two pages now and even when I'm saying that's not what I'm trying to do (and I have said in my posts as well that that's not what I'm trying to do - leads me, again, to the conclusion that you haven't read them) you're just quoting me again saying it is and not just that, I'm also acting superior and dictating what people should do. Talk about getting ****ing personal I love to talk and discuss things and I quoted you personally to explain my point of view in a very short way because I noticed that you didn't understand what I meant with my posts, and all I got in return was this rude attitude that didn't for one second acknowledge my perspective as valid in any way. And now agàin I wrote you a reply repeating myself for the third time (that I DO know people have different perspectives and I am MORE THAN HAPPY to discuss them if people read them and respond to my arguments instead of some sentences they pluck out), explaining myself in the shortest way I can, questioning what you're even doing here for me to have to repeat myself over and over again and now again I get this nonsensical reply But I'm the one who can't discuss right? You haven't even MENTIONED any of my arguments. All you care about is disqualifying every single post I made in this thread because I'm supposedly insulting Gaga and dictating what she should do, when that is not the case at all! You're trying to play the victim now saying I'm not acknowledging your perspective, but bitch you never had a perspective You just said you didn't blame her for being contradicting, end of story and all the rest of your posts is just you being unsatisfied with the way I choose to express myself. So don't try to act like I didn't ****ing try. I did, over and over again and no matter in how many directions you try to spin it to make me look bad, you're still not winning. So just accept my advice: don't read this thread lmao. You're clearly not interested in adding to the discussion in a productive way, so honestly, what are you doing here except trying to call me out for something I already told you 10x I didn't try to do? And as far as the rest of your post goes: that is ****ing bs and you know it. I had many people who disagreed with me in this thread (even the person who made this thread) and we were all perfectly able to have a decent, productive conversation. I have always used well explained arguments to disagree with someone here, including with you. You should check the 5th post on this thread. It's in the first page, right before yours. Maybe after that you can understand how pointless is your argument against me for supposedly not addressing any of the points made by the OP. Now hopefully you have realized that those two posts where you based your judgement on my understanding are not my actual response to the OP and they are just responses to certain posts after I addressed almost every important point of the OP in my actual first post. In my first reply to you I said that examining her behavior wasn't wrong as long as we didn't have to get to the point if insulting her. Now you're saying that you were not trying to insult her but in your second reply to me you literally said "well, that's an insult, but you can't zoom in on the insult without taking into account what the insult is for". So what's the truth? I didn't get personal or heated until you said that you had to explain your point in many times so people like me who just ignore points could understand it. How is that not personal and rude? So no, I wasn't the one who started with the rude attitude and with te personal comments. Maybe you don't mean to be rude but when you say that you have to be super explicit to someone so they understand is like talking extremely slowly to a person so they can understand like if they were mentally challenged or stupid. My perspective was clear and it was that in my opinion no one can dictate what is right and what is wrong. I never said that you were dictating what she had to do. I do have a perspective about her social behavior and her activism, I just didn't use it as an argument because I don't mean to change your perspective. I didn't start this to win. I'm not trying to make you look bad or play the victim either. I just defended myself because I felt like you were mocking everything I said that didn't match with your point of view. I apologize if I offended you but in my opinion there was no need for so much negativity and insults. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman 189 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 52 minutes ago, JackTheTripper said: I find it hard to see what your point is, but i will try to answer you, The topic that you quoted me was Gags intention to be clebrated for her music, songwriting and composing, and not for her body. while i dont think there is anything bad in clebrating your body,, but why said you wanted people to pay antention to your music AND NOT TO your body- if you are posting naked pictures of yourself for the whole world to see, her selling her image and her naked body was during her whole career BEING AS IMPORTAND FOR HER AS HER MUSIC.... and i had no porblem with that. but why now act like the last 8 years of her career didnt happend? verry strange Not sure really. Suppose my body is important and I don't really look after it as I should. Nobodies perfect certainly not in this day and age. Just have to improve and if forgetting about the past or changing it helps then why not. No woman should live in a world where she feels the need to sell her body nor any man live in a world where he feels the need to sell out his creativity and vice versa. It is rape we are all being raped and quite often raping and it has got to stop. The weight of culture or lack thereof pushes people into doing things they would not otherwise do so it is necessary to help eachother out of this mess and together it is real easy to acheive beautiful world. "No matter how omnipotent a monster may seem, once it is forgotten it ceases to exist altogether." https://books.google.com/books?id=iIrsjPO8KbcC&pg=PA153 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaney 5,515 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 3 hours ago, JackTheTripper said: I am willing to forgive her all if she deletes the punk part from her twitter bio- because she coudnt be more opposite of one Or when she calls herself a rebel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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