The -now lost- Political Gaga + her Radical Art

[Alex C 254]

Note: This was posted as a shorter reply in another thread. But I know that youngsters today, skip replies that are longer than 1 paragraph and I really wanted to start a new discussion in regards to the lost political content in Lady Gaga's lyrics, videos, the whole artistic vision of hers. It started as a reply, but I added some thought, I would really appreciate some Mature discussion going.

I am a huge fan of gags since The Fame. As a fellow singer/songwriter, not only I admired her creative visions, but I also loved the direction she was taking after each artistic 'era'. (by the way, "artistic era" =/= "album eras"). With every music video she created, we got to see a new kind of artist: A "meta-pop artist". Which means that she is not just a pop musician writing stuff about various topics of life, but she also breaking the "4th wall" of the business itself, doing commentary about:

1. Fame itself.

2. The process of becoming part of the machine, plus it's dark side.

3. Political commentary of being a woman in this buissness, with heavy tones of being also a queer person in society -in general-

4. Many more radical commentary on the nature of the spectacle, be self-references, self-fulfilling artistic prophecies, and relevant charity work, artistic collabs and technological investments.

5. Multi-faceted artistic journey: Entering, experimenting and being successful with all the above elements, in many forms of art: Pop Music as Performance Art, Poetry, Music, Photography, Fashion, Technology, 

Okay, let's cut to the chase: I don't want to bring negativity to this, but I have to get it off my chest, or I'll explode:

Please notice since when I am a member (and lurking even before that), and how many YEARS I have to regularly post.

This happened, because after Born This Way (a revolutionary album, with musical and lyrical masterpieces, that contained POLITICAL statements about marginalized groups, stated by NAME, and being in pop music/top 40/whatevs u call it), some "fans" started complaining because gaga was not universally praised, and the alberm was kinda polarizing, mostly inside the fanbase, which wants only SAFE, "revolutionary-but-not-so-much-or-we-will-lose-sales", "slaying" aesthetics produced by her. The little managers, as we call them.

Now: Since gaga herself, I'm sure, is taking notice of what the fanbase "collectively wants" (lolwut), unfortunately, she produced ARTPOP, which, in my opinion, was a "play-it-safe" Album by her.

I still cannot believe the inclusion of that homophobic lyric by her in Donatella. It was totally unnecessary. In my opinion, she tried to 'cancel' the whole Born this Way era and its afterglow/aftertaste, because so many of you whined that she became, not only "preachy" (?), but also TOO MUCH GAY ORIENTED, WHICH WOULD ALIENATE THE "GP", AS IF WE SHOULD CARE TO PLEASE THEM. The amount of lolwut and "i can't even" that I felt during that period was face-palmingly overwhelming.

No matter the adversities she was going through, she sacrificed artistic visions in order to produce something safer. THAT was the biggest mistake she's made.

Gaga became the mega star she is today, exactly because her music always had political, social, even revolt-leaning meanings, carefully hidden for the feeble minds. She caught the attention of other artists and similar left-leaning Thinkers, because of that.

Those factors just disappeared in ARTPOP.

I hope that LG5, will return even more politically charged, not only because that's what she IS as an artist, but also just to spite the bandwagoners, and the 'fans'/'stans' who want her to always be #1, and don't care if she sacrifices her true artistic visionary self.

P.S. After Born this Way, I falsely was expecting that she would dismiss those "fan" opinions regarding her thematology and lyrics, and produce an alberm that would be even more radical. I almost believed that ARTPOP would be something closer to old-school Rock, [in terms of lyrics mostly], by bringing some Anarchy, some revolution, some more radical approaches to get what we deserve in life. Yes, you read correctly. A suprising amount of left-leaning people, even many radical left people loved gaga, because she had that mystery that, little by little, she is somehow revealing more and more clues about a political expression goal that she wanted to reach as an artist. Something like an artistic Coup d'etat: Entering the music industry on their terms, and slowly and steadily revealing her true self: Revolutionary.

Do not forget her incredible statement about moral obligation to reach our revolutionary potential. Many of you have totally forgotten that tibdit in time... It was around Judas.

P.S.2. If you don't believe that her hidden social commentary was that radial, go check blogs that analysed her videos and lyrics, and drew the same conclusions. It is NOT A COINCIDENCE, that those blogs didn't have much to say during the ARTPOP "era". Because ARTPOP was a safe thing. Only Aura, Venus, MANiCURE had some commentary, but kinda safe. And -as always- the decision making was terrible: (1) Aura never became a single, of course, and the final version was butchered. (2) Venus, the feminist anthem, was also canceled, of course, in the last minute. (3) MANiCURE was ignored.

English is not my 1st language. Please don't try it with me by being a grammar nazi, and try to argue about some points I've made. But not just for the sake of arguing - some of her fans, we're almost 30 and really don't have time for this romper-room-fvckerry.

love you, but on the other hand, "k-thnx-bai"

 

 

[Nemo 4,295]

17 minutes ago, Alex C said:

I still cannot believe the inclusion of that homophobic lyric by her in Donatella.

Huh?

[JackTheTripper 866]

I get what you are saying, after all beafore she become gaga, she was clasically tranied musiccian, and the whole FAME thing was, as she putted many many times, her art project  and comment on fame whoring, she played all those thing that beacoming staple in tabloids, you know sunglasses, blond tan chick in her underwear, but there was a sense of irony in all of that, and she said beauty is a  lie. And later she become The fame monster, this degenrating crature, her whole carrer has been ping pong beetween commercial fame ***** persona, and avngard musiccian, since she knew thats the way she could get attenton she new how to direct that attention to subjects as marriage equality and anti bullying campaign... later during ARTPOP she said, and  sometimes she will onl give her ass, and thas all that she will give us, and on the other times she will give us her heart and soul.... in my opninion alll of her pop albums, where inttroduction to somethingm more real soulfull-something she couldnt show unless she had the attention she god from her being a pop star..... she said it all back in the 2010.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoUmGLMgWOo

[JackTheTripper 866]

this may be a reach, but the whole ARTPOP fiasco had to happend, you know like her whole artistry is this disscusion, of ablonde pop icon being destroyed by fame and almosu her every video, is about BETRAYEL.... the constant rise, and fall, and rebirth 

[Pop 4,541]

Post of the year.

You've put into words everything I felt was "off" with Gaga since the BTW era ended.

I hope she gets her balls back and starts to speak her mind in her music again.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

I have to disagree with a few points.

Her only video/single that contained political commentary during The Fame was Paparazzi. Her three biggest hits (Just Dance, Poker Face and Bad Romance) are not filled with political statements and the videos were not political either. Her most iconic video isn't a political commentary either. 

I don't think she became the megastar she is today because she was different and her music was different but still enjoyable pop music. After Born This Way I think her management and herself got into a lot of disagreement about who Lady Gaga should be and sound like... and then the mess of ARTPOP came out as a result of that. It was not as experimental as she wanted it to be and it wasn't as safe as her management wanted it to be, basically a disjointed idea and product that lead to a messy era. 

What's the political statement behind Venus and MANiCURE? The real political/social commentary on ARTPOP was on G.U.Y, DWUW, Aura and Donatella which is a SATIRIC song. The lyrics in Donatella are not meant to be taken seriously.

ARTPOP "flopped" becauce the era was a mess, not because it was too safe. Applause did a decent job considering the lyrics were not relatable for the average listener and Do What U Want was doing pretty well considering how messy the promotion and the collaboration were. 

[Didymus 34,380]

Hmm..

I'm afraid I don't agree with anything. To me, the political content in BTW was actually already disappointing and safe, despite what many people here believe. The gay support was unexciting to me (and I have no shame in saying that: artists who support gays nowadays don't run a risk of being ostracized) and the statements about immigration etc. were too subtle and too deliberately unlinked with political reality. The feminism angle was incomplete, superficial and insulting when you take other dimensions of the era and her career in general into the equation.

I actually liked some of the messages in the ARTPOP era more than most in the BTW era. The idea of sacrificing her own creative ego was underdeveloped (and I only mean that in the sense that she only referred to it in very specific interviews and then contradicted herself in others - the major problem of the era for me: no concentration) but it was fresh and exciting. The self-commentary in songs like Fashion! was also exciting to me, since it was the first time she really incorporated some of her personal impulses in her music.

I still don't know if we should regard everything that happened as strategy or if things actually fell apart (I suspect that her creative team leaving her made a huge impact, in a bad way) but all I know is that Gaga is the definition of ambivalence and has made some major faux pas in the context of this theme (ex. her intentional ignoring and misrepresenting of the violence in the Israel/Palestine conflict, performing as some Russian Eurovision act in Azerbaijan, vapidly contributing to the anti-Russia American propaganda, overemphasizing Paris in the context of Islamic terrorism which she never addressed once before or after, making questionable statements about the gay portion of her fanbase,...) so I am in no way convinced that she should be seen as a sincerely political artist, despite her claims about herself.

[Alex C 254]

17 minutes ago, Nemo said:

Huh?

"...ask your gay friends their advice, before you"

Even tho I understand that she is being sarcastic towards women who base their aesthetic on "yes-men" who happen to be gay most of the times, her tone in that line felt.... "let's include a lyric so that the str8 fans feel I am not in the BTW era/mentality anymore"

[PartySick 161,064]

2 minutes ago, Alex C said:

"...ask your gay friends their advice, before you"

Even tho I understand that she is being sarcastic towards women who base their aesthetic on "yes-men" who happen to be gay most of the times, her tone in that line felt.... "let's include a lyric so that the str8 fans feel I am not in the BTW era/mentality anymore"

I think you're taking that line waaaaay too seriously. It's literally meaningless  Donatella is loosely about being misunderstood but it's also just a fun song. Nothing is meant by that line in particular imo. 

[Alex C 254]

14 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Hmm..

I'm afraid I don't agree with anything. To me, the political content in BTW was actually already disappointing and safe, despite what many people here believe. The gay support was unexciting to me (and I have no shame in saying that: artists who support gays nowadays don't run a risk of being ostracized) and the statements about immigration etc. were too subtle and too deliberately unlinked with political reality. The feminism angle was incomplete, superficial and insulting when you take other dimensions of the era and her career in general into the equation.

I actually liked some of the messages in the ARTPOP era more than most in the BTW era. The idea of sacrificing her own creative ego was underdeveloped (and I only mean that in the sense that she only referred to it in very specific interviews and then contradicted herself in others - the major problem of the era for me: no concentration) but it was fresh and exciting. The self-commentary in songs like Fashion! was also exciting to me, since it was the first time she really incorporated some of her personal impulses in her music.

I still don't know if we should regard everything that happened as strategy or if things actually fell apart (I suspect that her creative team leaving her made a huge impact, in a bad way) but all I know is that Gaga is the definition of ambivalence and has made some major faux pas in the context of this theme (ex. her ignoring the violence in the Israel/Palestine conflict, performing as some Russian Eurovision act in Azerbaijan, vapidly contributing to the anti-Russia American propaganda, overemphasizing Paris in the context of Islamic terrorism which she never addressed once before or after, making questionable statements about the gay portion of her fanbase,...) and I am in no way convinced that she should be seen as a sincerely political artist, despite her claims about herself.

Thank you for this mature and analytical reply

Regarding your opinion on the political discourse in BTW, the only thing I have to say is that I agree and disagree with you, simultaneously: Your points are all valid. However we should take into the equation, the context of when BTW (the single) dropped: Absolutely no pop artist had ever even said the words "lesbian, transgender" in their hit songs / first singles.

Which takes me to my 2nd point: Of course there are artist who are/were at the time, much, MUCH more radical. But here, we are talking about a smart "meta-pop girl", masquerading as "just a pop chick", which I think took large cojones in order to write all that stuff and produce such aesthetics. Especially after ONLY 2 ALBUMS! It's almost like.... how dare she?

Maybe I'm giving her a free pass because I think that pop culture in America is so conservative, that I see U.S. artists' works under a veeeeery different microscope than -let's say- independent european singers/songwriters like me.

 

Again, excuse my english - I am greek.

[JackTheTripper 866]

And about her beeing progresive and politcally involved, i have to agree on some poitn maed by Didymus, howeever i think her involvment for gay right  started long before the subject became popular among pop crowd, She may be american, but look Putin is a dictator and a verry dangerous man, so anti russan political propaganda was a  10 point for her for currage in my book, further more she has always been  tranlsating this message about unity, and harmony among people, and and the whole anti bullying campaign, and even now being vocal on subject that are verry stigmatic like rape, and mental ilness-this especially. You know i can really thnk of any other commercial pop star being involved in all of theese, so her social and political message globaly had more pluses and some fauls-but at least she in not avoiding the issues and being ignorant.....

When it comes to her artistic choices, like i sadi ita a constant ping pong between fame ***** persona and commercial bops, and talented and progresive performance artist, all i now it was the SXSW interview, that really gave me hope for her future release work related

[Didymus 34,380]

40 minutes ago, JackTheTripper said:

this may be a reach, but the whole ARTPOP fiasco had to happend, you know like her whole artistry is this disscusion, of ablonde pop icon being destroyed by fame and almosu her every video, is about BETRAYEL.... the constant rise, and fall, and rebirth 

Yeah, I don't know about that It's easier to see it as strategy, but really, when you look at what happened closely (as closely as we can, anyway) I don't think that can be possible. According to that theory Troy must have left as a staged disaster, Gaga must have faked her depression around December/January etc., it's just not realistic.

I think it's more logical to just assume that the fiasco happened because of what Gaga told us: she wasn't allowed room to breathe and she had to poop out ideas mechanically, stifling her creativity and limiting what she could do (I'm sure that accounts for what I perceive as the lack of daring during the BTW era - that era was rushed to death, just like the ARTPOP one).

I know that Gaga said she planned her whole career in 2008 and it does seem to make sense if you tell her career like a story, but the truth of the matter is that she already described ARTPOP as the beginning of the next phase in her career and planned to use that era as a platform for everything that was to come (that's what the app was for) before the era happened and failed. So actually I think Gaga wanted to do the opposite with the era instead of playing the defeated girl as a strategical act - she already wanted to conquer and free herself but she couldn't.

[Alex C 254]

5 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I think you're taking that line waaaaay too seriously. It's literally meaningless  Donatella is loosely about being misunderstood but it's also just a fun song. Nothing is meant by that line in particular imo. 

I hope you're right. I do take things very seriously in life, and especially art. You can imagine my psyche!

I just can't take a song from such a legendary artist like gaga as "not-important". Each lyric, each song in her album is a carefully designed building block.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

8 minutes ago, Alex C said:

"...ask your gay friends their advice, before you"

Even tho I understand that she is being sarcastic towards women who base their aesthetic on "yes-men" who happen to be gay most of the times, her tone in that line felt.... "let's include a lyric so that the str8 fans feel I am not in the BTW era/mentality anymore"

Her tone? She sings that part like every other part of the verses. 

You're reading too much into it. The song is a satire and no one would ever write a song like that thinking that the song is appealing for straight men.

[Alex C 254]

2 minutes ago, DrewStevens said:

Her tone? She sings that part like every other part of the verses. 

You're reading too much into it. The song is a satire and no one would ever write a song like that thinking that the song is appealing for straight men.

Yes, I answered that, in my reply to PartySick, one reply before yours