FlopSlut 1,190 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, Haroon said: That's a big sum for a cake refusal They probably feel a bit silly now ikr Flopenstein Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bette Davis 12,742 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 44 minutes ago, ajhuffman219 said: I'm sick of people, like you, expecting people to kiss YOUR feet and succumb to YOUR beliefs. But, God forbid we have a different point of view than you. Its ridiculous and borderline pathetic in my opinion. And, to me this is truly fighting the wrong kind of battle. Boo hoo, poor girls can't get a wedding cake. Yet, there at LGBT people dying for being who they are No one is asking for their feet to be kissed or special treatment, they are simply asking to be treated like everyone else. I believe that no one should face discrimination, regardless of their background, but call that pathetic and ridiculous if you'd like. This isn't just about a cake, it's about establishing equality. If you are too ignorant to see that, then that's a shame. Cold as ice cream, but still as sweet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gagaisitalian 3,573 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 This is great for that couple but will probably backfire on the LGBT community. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 6,697 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 For a fine, isn't that a bit high for a violation? It would be one thing if this was a lawsuit or counter lawsuit. I understand and am for penalizing people for discriminating against those in LGBT community, but a payout of more than $100,000 to one lesbian couple? There are many other homosexual individuals in this country who suffer from violence, rejection and abandonment from institutions, public, family members, parents, and harassment, so I'd be for a harsher penalty for something that is more harmful to people. Refusing to make a cake is childish and unprofessional, but it is not the worst offence we've seen in discrimination. Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? This isn't about the principle set here, but the degree and the message being sent by this punishment. Stand in the light, cast your shadow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 6,697 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 8 hours ago, Mobster said: 135000$ is obviously an unreasonable fine... But before you start feeling pity for these homophobes, they received more than 350000$ on a crowfunding page this year as a result of this case going viral, they are probably celebrating this whole "ordeal"....People are still rewarding bigotry and that's a far worse problem than one judge going overboard with a fine... Here's their crowfunding page, if you want to check out their pathetic excuse to ask for money... (Needless to say: Don't fund them!) https://www.continuetogive.com/4811392 I didn't know about this crowd fund thing... whatever, both sides of this over some damn cake. I wish people would pick their battles more wisely. These Christian bakers obviously illustrate how Oregon has quite a few spoiled brats while others in the state and the rest of the country think about surviving in this crummy economy. Stand in the light, cast your shadow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoFameMonster 1,592 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Damn right! they dessert it. lol Can you imagine walking into a store and not being severed for being black, Indian, christian, a woman! I mean how cruel it would feel to be publicly degraded like that. They should be civilly sued as well and the couple should claim damages. Be a Christian (I am) but if your a business owner your not selling your religion, your selling cakes and apparently hatred. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warholian 6,880 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Congrats my gays our plan is working. Next step: execution and internment Kevin Parker, Mac Demarco, Mark Ronson, and a stoned Lady Gaga. Need I say more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,861 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Ok this is not justice either. $135,000 are you kidding me? Im not justifying discrimination but that much money isnt fair either and just because they are fellow LGBT members shouldnt make you biased that way it makes those who fight for equality appear extreme you know??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobster 14,604 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 On 30.12.2015 at 6:52 AM, Twisted Shadows said: I didn't know about this crowd fund thing... whatever, both sides of this over some damn cake. I wish people would pick their battles more wisely. These Christian bakers obviously illustrate how Oregon has quite a few spoiled brats while others in the state and the rest of the country think about surviving in this crummy economy. Well, it's not really about the cake... It's about illegal discrimination... The law in Oregon bans discrimination against LGBT people in public places. Yes, it involved a cake and I'd actually be happy to know which bakeries to avoid... But that doesn't change the fact that they broke the law. The fine is way too high but that's not the couple's fault. To put things into perspective, these Christians are the same people who so vehemently defended laws banning LGBT people from getting married. Every member of the LGBT community had to obey the law, now it's time for the bigoted people to do the same. But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsTommyBitch 12,640 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 50 minutes ago, Economy said: Ok this is not justice either. $135,000 are you kidding me? Im not justifying discrimination but that much money isnt fair either and just because they are fellow LGBT members shouldnt make you biased that way it makes those who fight for equality appear extreme you know??? I don't really think so at all, its not like the couple specifically asked for this number or really had anything to do with it, so why would we blame those who fight for equality for the specific action and judgment of one judge? If people are so small-minded that they blame people who fight for equality for this, they honestly aren't worth my or anyone involved's time imo I dont think anyone really disagrees that its a weirdly high fine, though $135,000 after all of the emotional trauma (death threats, having to move from the bakers giving out their address, etc.) makes a lot more sense. It's still high, but I digress... On top of that the bakers themselves received over double this amount of money for actively disobeying the law, so im not really concerned that this will bankrupt them or anything either. I think I can live with one high fine and its not becaued im biased towards "fellow LGBT members" but rather that these people blatantly broke the law and discriminated against people and expected to get away with it because of their religion. It's really on them entirely and it wouldn't have mattered if it were a black couple, an interracial couple, or whatever, discrimination is discrimination *EDIT* Nvm my first edit 私自身もこの世の中も誰もかれもが, どんなに華やかな人生でも, どんなに悲惨な人生でも, いつかは変貌し, 破壊され、消滅してしまう. すべてがもともとこの世に存在しない一瞬の幻想なのだから Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabexuela 1,184 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Let em eat crow, we eat cake! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,861 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 47 minutes ago, ItsVenusBitch said: I don't really think so at all, its not like the couple specifically asked for this number or really had anything to do with it, so why would we blame those who fight for equality for the specific action and judgment of one judge? If people are so small-minded that they blame people who fight for equality for this, they honestly aren't worth my or anyone involved's time imo I dont think anyone really disagrees that its a weirdly high fine, though $135,000 after all of the emotional trauma (death threats, having to move from the bakers giving out their address, etc.) makes a lot more sense. It's still high, but I digress... On top of that the bakers themselves received over double this amount of money for actively disobeying the law, so im not really concerned that this will bankrupt them or anything either. I think I can live with one high fine and its not becaued im biased towards "fellow LGBT members" but rather that these people blatantly broke the law and discriminated against people and expected to get away with it because of their religion. It's really on them entirely and it wouldn't have mattered if it were a black couple, an interracial couple, or whatever, discrimination is discrimination *EDIT* Nvm my first edit Still. I like to view both sides... its a family business not a humaritarian service. Like if their faith makes them uncomfortable doing this... i dont agree but id be understanding enough to just find anotuer place rather than making such a big deal about it... in the end they hurt themselves more than they hurt you anyway. You can find another place to bake your cake but they will not get your money We may not like Conservatives forcing their religious values on others but do Liberals ever stop to think that maybe sometimes we try to force conservatives to accept everything???? I think there needs to he some compromise. Certainly dont let little things get to you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsTommyBitch 12,640 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Economy said: Still. I like to view both sides... its a family business not a humaritarian service. Like if their faith makes them uncomfortable doing this... i dont agree but id be understanding enough to just find another place rather than making such a big deal about it... in the end they hurt themselves more than they hurt you anyway. You can find another place to bake your cake but they will not get your money We may not like Conservatives forcing their religious values on others but do Liberals ever stop to think that maybe sometimes we try to force conservatives to accept everything???? I think there needs to he some compromise. Certainly dont let little things get to you Its not like the couple was so pressed that one bakery didn't cater to them that this is all just some exaggerated hissy fit, im sure they got another cake, and THEN proceeded to press charges (and they were in their right to do so, this is pretty objective ) They were right to get mad, they were being discriminated against Sure "don't sweat the small stuff" is a nice saying and it isn't completely without merit on an individual level, but surely one can understand the point of exposing a company that doesn't follow the law and discriminates against the general public? They broke the law and as a business, I would hold them to some sort of standard. I really have absolutely no sympathy for them, regardless of if they were a family business or some huge humanitarian service Also, you are right that intolerance can harm business anyway, so they did lose money by discriminating. This doesn't make things all squared off though. AIso, I don't think that forcing people to obey a law that is there to protect people from discrimination,a phenomenon that we generally agree is detrimental to society on a macro and micro level, is intolerant of different perspectives.(as in, we dont try to understand where conservatives are coming from) If anything, it comes from a place of understanding those perspectives and their repercussions in practice and actively deciding that they are incompatible with modern society. It's trial and error. The only way I see it as intolerant is if its intolerant of beliefs that are ignorant or misinformed, promote hatred and discrimination, or generally regressive. Conservatives don't have to accept gay marriage, or homosexuality, or foreigners at all on an individual level. Mandating that we as a society treat people fairly only results in a loss of undeserved privilege and social power over people, and that's certainly uncomfortable for most people. They can still all go home and hate "the gays" and "the blacks", and "the arabs/"the terrorists" () all they want, and so can their friends, but bringing those kinds of beliefs into society from an economic and political standpoint is demonstrably harmful to people Also, I cant think of a case of how not allowing someone to discriminate against a class of people based on a personal belief is demonstrably harmful, unless you count "That makes me uncomfortable!" 私自身もこの世の中も誰もかれもが, どんなに華やかな人生でも, どんなに悲惨な人生でも, いつかは変貌し, 破壊され、消滅してしまう. すべてがもともとこの世に存在しない一瞬の幻想なのだから Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,861 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, ItsVenusBitch said: Its not like the couple was so pressed that one bakery didn't cater to them that this is all just some exaggerated hissy fit, im sure they got another cake, and THEN proceeded to press charges (and they were in their right to do so, this is pretty objective ) They were right to get mad, they were being discriminated against Sure "don't sweat the small stuff" is a nice saying and it isn't completely without merit on an individual level, but surely one can understand the point of exposing a company that doesn't follow the law and discriminates against the general public? They broke the law and as a business, I would hold them to some sort of standard. I really have absolutely no sympathy for them, regardless of if they were a family business or some huge humanitarian service Also, you are right that intolerance can harm business anyway, so they did lose money by discriminating. This doesn't make things all squared off though. AIso, I don't think that forcing people to obey a law that is there to protect people from discrimination,a phenomenon that we generally agree is detrimental to society on a macro and micro level, is intolerant of different perspectives.(as in, we dont try to understand where conservatives are coming from) If anything, it comes from a place of understanding those perspectives and their repercussions in practice and actively deciding that they are incompatible with modern society. The only way I see it as intolerant is if its intolerant of beliefs that are ignorant or misinformed, promote hatred and discrimination, or generally regressive. Conservatives don't have to accept gay marriage, or homosexuality, or foreigners at all on an individual level. Mandating that we as a society treat people fairly only results in a loss of undeserved privilege and social power over people, and that's certainly uncomfortable for most people. They can still all go home and hate "the gays" and "the blacks", and "the arabs/"the terrorists" () all they want, and so can their friends, but bringing those kinds of beliefs into society from an economic and political standpoint is demonstrably harmful to people Also, I cant think of a case of how not allowing someone to discriminate against a class of people based on a personal belief is demonstrably harmful, unless you count "That makes me uncomfortable!" The problem is that on something like this you force them to be involved in something they really disagree with... like i may be agaisnt war and killing so i never go to military. But what if the military wanted to buy raw materials i manufacture to use in their stuff somehow? Now i wanna deny them specifically because indont want any connection but im singling them out of course a cake for a marriage isnt on the same level of military but i think as a principal it still applies... its so easy to call them intolerant but what if its really against their beliefs and they dont want a connection to it? I dont find it hard to see their point of view However in terms of giving away adress or what not yes, on those grounds i think regarless of beliefs thats not justifiable because its not just refusal to get involved, your actually going out of your way to cause trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teo 609 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It's so sad that people hate gays and lesbians so much that they would rather pay crazy money over baking a damn cake. I hope it was worth it. Like just smile to them, take the order, bake the ****ing thing, spit in the frosting and be done with it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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