Is Gaga the most talented modern artist?

[Monster2015 1,117]

50 minutes ago, Mast said:

Gaga's only ever used a N6 once, it was in G.U.Y. Produced by Zedd, not just Gaga. We know for a fact that most of the stuff that Zedd produced for ARTPOP, he had already made before giving it to Gaga. So, it is very possible that Gaga didn't have any involvement in the writing of the instrumental. Also, N6 are not impressive to make. They're impressive to compose in major keys, but in this case, G.U.Y is in the key of C minor, Even though the N6 is not in C minor in this case, it's still very common to find N6s in minor keys. But again, it's likely that Gaga didn't compose it. 

Can I think of other artists that use non-diatonic chords? Absolutely, everywhere. Bruno Mars, for example. Also artists that I already mentioned, such as Hiatus Kaiyote, D'Angelo, and Snarky Puppy.

 

Why am I bringing musical theory into this? Because if Gaga truly respected the craft of music, which I know she does (yet not to the extent of other musical artists), she would not be limited by music theory. If she truly wanted to push boundaries, she would be making more intricate music. Gaga's writing mostly consists of minor keys (with a few twists here and there) and time signatures of 4/4, which is the most basic level of composing. Then you have less-known artists like Hiatus Kaiyote, who experiment with unusual key changes, genre changes, and time signature changes within one song, and they make it work! Not to mention, their lyrics are much better than Gaga's. Gaga's songwriting is good for the state of pop, but I am yet to see her write something as beautiful as:

"Aorta tattoed to the artery with acute artistry"

"I could hold demons aside and soak them in chamomile" 

"A woman that rests night and day, sweat and tears unfold to undress the burdens that caress the blessed."

"Nakamarra sweet red earth will hold you like the strength you bless to me"

 

In my opinion, the best lyrics we've gotten out of Gaga, artistically speaking, are:

"Lover's kites are flown on beaches for public sight".

and Sonja's spoken word in G.U.Y.

And that's about it, the rest of her lyrics are just simple good pop lyrics, and that's all they're good for. And if you try to cite Hair's lyrics to me, gbye. That's not to say that her songs aren't good, just not lyrically amazing. Most of her better songs just happen to be emotionally charged, which makes up for the lack of breath taking lyrics. Speechless, for example, is a great song because you can hear the pain behind her voice, but the lyrics are just okay.

Yes but Zedd did say she took the song and instrumental and morphed it into what she wanted. And that is my point, Gaga was classically trained so she knows the musical terms, ideas, and techniques and knows how to apply it to her music. Gaga knows how to modulate from key to key, she knows how to use non-diatonic chords, catchy hooks, her lyrics are wonderful in my opinion. ARTPOP (the song), Speechless, Paparazzi, Applause, etc. another point I'd like to make is that, there is no such thing as a "greatest modern artist". Because everything is opinioned based and every artist has pros and cons. It just so happens that some dedicate more to their craft than others. But in my opinion, I think Gaga is the greatest of the modern generation. 

[CroatiaGeisha 19]

1 hour ago, Mast said:

Gaga's only ever used a N6 once, it was in G.U.Y. Produced by Zedd, not just Gaga. We know for a fact that most of the stuff that Zedd produced for ARTPOP, he had already made before giving it to Gaga. So, it is very possible that Gaga didn't have any involvement in the writing of the instrumental. Also, N6 are not impressive to make. They're impressive to compose in major keys, but in this case, G.U.Y is in the key of C minor, Even though the N6 is not in C minor in this case, it's still very common to find N6s in minor keys. But again, it's likely that Gaga didn't compose it. 

Can I think of other artists that use non-diatonic chords? Absolutely, everywhere. Bruno Mars, for example. Also artists that I already mentioned, such as Hiatus Kaiyote, D'Angelo, and Snarky Puppy.

 

Why am I bringing musical theory into this? Because if Gaga truly respected the craft of music, which I know she does (yet not to the extent of other musical artists), she would not be limited by music theory. If she truly wanted to push boundaries, she would be making more intricate music. Gaga's writing mostly consists of minor keys (with a few twists here and there) and time signatures of 4/4, which is the most basic level of composing. Then you have less-known artists like Hiatus Kaiyote, who experiment with unusual key changes, genre changes, and time signature changes within one song, and they make it work! Not to mention, their lyrics are much better than Gaga's. Gaga's songwriting is good for the state of pop, but I am yet to see her write something as beautiful as:

"Aorta tattoed to the artery with acute artistry"

"I could hold demons aside and soak them in chamomile" 

"A woman that rests night and day, sweat and tears unfold to undress the burdens that caress the blessed."

"Nakamarra sweet red earth will hold you like the strength you bless to me"

 

In my opinion, the best lyrics we've gotten out of Gaga, artistically speaking, are:

"Lover's kites are flown on beaches for public sight".

and Sonja's spoken word in G.U.Y.

And that's about it, the rest of her lyrics are just simple good pop lyrics, and that's all they're good for. And if you try to cite Hair's lyrics to me, gbye. That's not to say that her songs aren't good, just not lyrically amazing. Most of her better songs just happen to be emotionally charged, which makes up for the lack of breath taking lyrics. Speechless, for example, is a great song because you can hear the pain behind her voice, but the lyrics are just okay.

You bring up really interesting points, but I disagree with the notion that experimental music is solely reflective of greater musical talent. In my opinion, mastering the "craft" of music would involve pushing boundaries, but at the same time using enough conventions to be palatable to the masses. The artists you listed aren't there, and neither is Gaga (from the opposite direction), but maybe the later works from the Beatles are. Similarly, the lyrics you cited are a little too stuffy/overcomplicated. But this all just my opinion lol. I just like having some simplicity/a foundation for reatability. 

[Killa 17,461]

She is yet to be the greatest artist. I'm not fond of the word "talent".

hiatus kaiyote is really blowing up, i love at them being use as an example for what is a talented band, this days.

When we're starting to talk about weird 6th chords in a pop oriented forum,  it is either bound to be very tragic or very tragic indeed.

[Mast 980]

40 minutes ago, Monster2015 said:

Yes but Zedd did say she took the song and instrumental and morphed it into what she wanted. And that is my point, Gaga was classically trained so she knows the musical terms, ideas, and techniques and knows how to apply it to her music. Gaga knows how to modulate from key to key, she knows how to use non-diatonic chords, catchy hooks, her lyrics are wonderful in my opinion. ARTPOP (the song), Speechless, Paparazzi, Applause, etc. another point I'd like to make is that, there is no such thing as a "greatest modern artist". Because everything is opinioned based and every artist has pros and cons. It just so happens that some dedicate more to their craft than others. But in my opinion, I think Gaga is the greatest of the modern generation. 

That's stilla super vague statement for Zedd to make, but even then, why are you tryna make it seem like the use of one modulation puts her above everybody and talk as if she's the only modern artist to use modulation, when there are many other artists out who do them and do them better than her?

How is Gaga the greatest of the modern generation though, when I already explained that she's musically miles behind other modern acts such as Hiatus Kaiyote and Snarky Puppy? Vulfpeck is also someone else who comes to mind. The most obvious reason as to why so many are agreeing with the OP is because a lot of people here are limited to pop music only and some lesser known, but still popular, genres. However, music is a much larger realm than that, and there are many artists that surpass her in all the categories listed. It's easy to be okay at everything, but it's hard to become proficient and excellent in particular areas. Gaga is okay at everything she does, but there are people who do it much better than her.

[Alien Tulip 12,428]

No but she's one of them. 

[Alien Tulip 12,428]

3 hours ago, Slither said:

Madonna isn't talented.

Everyday I find a new reason on why a lot of lady gaga fans are so stupid.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

29 minutes ago, CroatiaGeisha said:

You bring up really interesting points, but I disagree with the notion that experimental music is solely reflective of greater musical talent. In my opinion, mastering the "craft" of music would involve pushing boundaries, but at the same time using enough conventions to be palatable to the masses. The artists you listed aren't there, and neither is Gaga (from the opposite direction), but maybe the later works from the Beatles are. Similarly, the lyrics you cited are a little too stuffy/overcomplicated. But this all just my opinion lol. I just like having some simplicity/a foundation for reatability. 

Nailed it  

To OP, Maybe "most talented pop star" in the sense of a pop star being widely famous and generally mainstream but even then im wary of absolutely claiming anything  

Its better to just say that shes very well rounded.

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

Yes, because I do think she's the most versatile one tbh. 

[Enhsa 2,043]

yes definitely

[Blade 5,603]

15 hours ago, Checkers said:

#Justice4MirandaCosgrove

This caught me off guard, I am laughing so hard rn

[BULATIO 1,635]

hmmmmmm........ after LG5 - YES! 

[PMKKARDASHiAN 8,570]

16 hours ago, Mast said:

No, I can name a hundred different modern artists that are far more musically talented than her. Nick Hakim, Lalah Hathaway, Hiatus Kaiyote, Erykah Badu, Andre 3000, Ppp, and all of Snarky Puppy, just to name a few. Heck, even Grimes and FKA Twigs make music that they produce themselves and are far more musically intriguing that Gaga's. (I'm talking lyrics, key and time signatures, chord progressions, intervals, control of tone, etc as a whole).

 

Is she the most talented pop artist at the moment? Very likely. She's just not the greatest artist across all musical planes. Not even close. Sorry. I love her but no.

 

Also, knife me, but her acting is still questionable. It has improved A LOT, but even in the latest episode of AHS, she still had trouble delivering some lines. She's really good at portraying certain moods in situations, but horrible at others. She doesn't do a very convincing job at acting innocent, for example. She's good enough of an actress to be passable in AHS, but she is easily the 2nd worst actress in the season, right behind Chloe Sevigny. Gaga is an okay actress, at best a "good" one, and hardly an amazing one

 

Also, besides Speechless and You and I, we still have to hear a song entirely produced and written by Gaga. AS much as she writes her own lyrics, she rarely does it on her own. Even Venus, which she supposedly produced herself, received help and stems from Zedd. She's mediocre at many of the things you mentioned, but her fans are quick to call her talented on an area just because she did it once. Her instrumental talents only really go as far as piano, but we haven't seen her play anything demanding on piano in a very long time. Again, she's a fine musician, but  not even close to the best one out there.

You. I like you. 

[Blade 5,603]

2 hours ago, Mast said:

In my opinion, the best lyrics we've gotten out of Gaga, artistically speaking, are:

"Lover's kites are flown on beaches for public sight".

and Sonja's spoken word in G.U.Y.

And that's about it, the rest of her lyrics are just simple good pop lyrics, and that's all they're good for. And if you try to cite Hair's lyrics to me, gbye. That's not to say that her songs aren't good, just not lyrically amazing. Most of her better songs just happen to be emotionally charged, which makes up for the lack of breath taking lyrics. Speechless, for example, is a great song because you can hear the pain behind her voice, but the lyrics are just okay.

first of all i love you.

and what spoken word in GUY do you mean? That confused me

[JazzGa 14,620]

Lmao of course not, there are musicians out there who can play 10 different instruments better than Gaga, triple threats who can act, sing, and dance circles around any celebrity... she is the post talented pop star and I enjoy her life-as-performance-art approach (Which appears to be dead now r.i.p.) but it's ridiculous to presume that there aren't any artists or musicians in the world who are more skilled than Gaga.

[ShockPop 7,747]

Let's play a game.. the objective is to see how many times young people say "**** Indy kid" is infinitely more talented than lady gaga because they're not required to meet certain requirements by a label.

Just FYI the reason these people aren't signed with big labels is likely that they're creating uninspired terrible music. Experiment all you like, but if it's no good you don't make it big.