TiphEret 1,320 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 11 minutes ago, field said: This doesn't make sense to me at all. If you can be bothered, I'd be interested to know exactly what any of these things actually mean, as I see plenty of people of all s-xualities, both cis and trans, totally conforming to gender norms. If a gay person doesn't want to be linked to transgender because they say that being gay is a s-xual orientation while trans is a gender identity then they claim they are in the gender norms. If they are concerned by gender issues it wouldn't make sense to question transgender people. If I identify as a lesbian I say that as a woman (gender) I am attracted to woman (again gender) so disconnecting s-xual orientation from gender is silly because gender is socially constructed, if we didn't have such binary norms transgender wouldn't be questioned, and homos-xuality as such wouldn't even exists. Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 172,415 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 9 minutes ago, field said: This doesn't make sense to me at all. If you can be bothered, I'd be interested to know exactly what any of these things actually mean, as I see plenty of people of all s-xualities, both cis and trans, totally conforming to gender norms. I think it just has to do with trans* people generally being on (and adhering to) the gender binary set by society. For example: A trans* woman might wear dresses, wigs, heels, speak feminine etc and a trans* man would do the things that society deems "manly". It's not problematic at all, you carry yourself how you want to, but I guess I could understand how it might be a little annoying to someone who wants to see gender norms abolished. Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcina Dimitrescu 1,157 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 cackling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo 3,000 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Interesting thing is, lately I've been hearing a lot of people say "LGB and T communities". It's a complex issue, but I can understand if individuals, only if done so in total support of trans* individuals of any kind, to make a distinction rather than a separation between the two communities. Many would make the argument that trans* issues revolve more around gender identity, whereas "LGB" has more to do with s-xual orientation (not to say transgender people do not have non-heteros-xual orientations or suffer similar difficulties). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietCoke 386 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 This is too much. I don't like that the only letters acknowledged/resoected in LGBT+ are the L and G. Trans issues are immensely different from gay and lesbian issues, but overall we're all fighting for the same type of equality in our laws and society. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aura Veil 2,395 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Let's change it to PRIDE People Refusing Inequality and Demanding Equality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 57 minutes ago, TiphEret said: If a gay person doesn't want to be linked to transgender because they say that being gay is a s-xual orientation while trans is a gender identity then they claim they are in the gender norms. If they are concerned by gender issues it wouldn't make sense to question transgender people. If I identify as a lesbian I say that as a woman (gender) I am attracted to woman (again gender) so disconnecting s-xual orientation from gender is silly because gender is socially constructed, if we didn't have such binary norms transgender wouldn't be questioned, and homos-xuality as such wouldn't even exists. Thanks for taking the time to explain. I do see your point about disconnecting gender and s-xuality issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Just now, field said: Thanks for taking the time to explain. I do see your point about disconnecting gender and s-xuality issues. Yes it's fine it's clear in my head but I can understand that it's unclear when I explain it. Basically i think that both are questioning the same norms but from different angles and I didn't think the reason the petition was made for was valid. Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 1 hour ago, PartySick said: I think it just has to do with trans* people generally being on (and adhering to) the gender binary set by society. For example: A trans* woman might wear dresses, wigs, heels, speak feminine etc and a trans* man would do the things that society deems "manly". It's not problematic at all, you carry yourself how you want to, but I guess I could understand how it might be a little annoying to someone who wants to see gender norms abolished. Yes, I think you're right. And I am one of those people who thinks gender norms as they stand massively restrict all of our lives, and I would like to see the ideas of what men and women can be expand. One of the concerns expressed by those in that article is that people should not feel that if they express their gender in a way that is at odds with the norms associated with their body type, they should transition to bring their body in line with that expression. Which is potentially quite a conservative, regressive idea. Really, it should be acceptable to live with whatever combination of body and gender expression you prefer at any time. But I don't think that idea and/or expectation is something that necessarily originates or is perpetuated by trans people, and so it's massively unfair to try to promote separating LGBT out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloZell Green 11,723 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 "I want equality for myself and people like me but not others" This is terrible, they deserve as much respect no matter what. Lady Gaga | Shakira Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikola 4,342 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 What ia wrong with people today I've got an "F" and a "C" and I got a "K" too And the only thing that is missing is a bitch like "U" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qualle1 1,385 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 No. Never. MAKE LOVE NOT WAR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
politicqxs 358 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 LGB sounds cooler though. Like KGB. giving up sodomy and moving to 🇦🇪 converting to ☪ and marrying four girls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMROD 117,002 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 7 minutes ago, Licq said: LGB sounds cooler though. Like KGB. Lawwddd, I need colonic. :sharon: (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ✧*:･ﾟ ᶠʳᵒⁿᵗ ᵗᵒʷᵃʳᵈ ᵉⁿᵉᵐʸ (*´艸｀*) ♡♡♡ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 6,697 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I think some are backing this because it was a technical thing that shot down laws like the one that was going to go up in Houston to ban LBGT discrimination, but was blocked because opponents kept focusing on the issue of restroom use and how men, who identified as women, could use the women's restroom, therefore scaring women of possible rapists using that... http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2015/11/defeat_of_houston_lgbt-rights.html http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/07/1446067/-View-from-the-left-Hope-after-Houston-how-LGBT-activists-can-turn-defeat-into-victory http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/11/06/houston-mayor-annise-parker-vows-revive-equal-rights-law It was a big mess... However, I agree that movements like this are self defeating... Equality for all, or what's the point? Stand in the light, cast your shadow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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