The misunderstandings of the "ARTPOP" concept are hilarious

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

Lol you're reaching way to hard to find a flaw in my comprehesion where there isn't one, there are no contradictions between my OP and the above post. Music that's intended for commercial success =/= music purely from the heart with no thought given towards commercial viability, it's that simple. That was my entire point. It doesn't matter if it's completely generic and uninspired pop music with zero inspiration, or if it's somewhat creative and inspired pop music that's geared towards commercial success while still retaining a degree of artistic credibility. If it's geared towards the charts it's geared towards the charts.

The only simple thing here is that you don't know what pop (popular music) means and therefore you're confusing ArtPOP with experimental music. Your OP is flawed deal with it.  The title of your thread is right. Your misunderstanding of the ARTPOP concept is truly hilarious.

 

[Kattys 4,319]

sorry, I tried a few times to quote you in the OP but this site is hard to navigate on mobile. But I didn't leave out any relevant context.

nope, you left part i was referencing to

"my ARTPOP could mean anything"

[Supersonic 49,376]

3 paragraphs into the OP I didn't bother to continue reading because it sounds like a redundant rehash of all the accussations ARTPOP faced during the previous 2 years. "Bad production" and ARTPOP are two terms that definitely do not belong together.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

The only simple thing here is that you don't know what pop (popular music) means and therefore you're confusing ArtPOP with experimental music. Your OP is flawed deal with it.  The title of your thread is right. Your misunderstanding of the ARTPOP concept is truly hilarious.

 

So now I'm comparing ARTPOP with experimental music when I clearly said that the intention was never to be experimental?

It's quite clear that we both understand the distinction. You only came at me for my comments on the album's mixing and for calling it safe (the opposite of experimental). If there's a point you're trying to make at least keep it coherent, my point with this entire thread was to point out the fallacies of comparing ARTPOP to Miley's new album or any album that has zero commercial aspirations, it's that simple.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

3 paragraphs into the OP I didn't bother to continue reading because it sounds like a redundant rehash of all the accussations ARTPOP faced during the previous 2 years. "Bad production" and ARTPOP are two terms that definitely do not belong together.

It's not a thread made to bash the album though? If anything it's to point out the misunderstanding of the basic concept and intention behind it, and how many fans misconstrue that.

And yes, the way the album is produced and mixed is flawed, that's not up for debate it's just a technical issue. That wasn't the point of this thread at all though, it's just what 80% of the replies latched onto

[Bradley 54,997]

I agree that ARTPOP sounded quite commercial when the album title itself suggests some element of experimental music. But I have known Gaga for so long I knew she wasn't going to give us full experimental music like what Miley has put out (I only heard two songs btw ), but again, Gaga herself said that there were two volumes to ARTPOP. We only heard the commercial volume and the other volume would contain music of a more experimental nature (which I still doubt would be experimental as you expected), so I'm not sure about you guys but I pretty much already saw that coming when critics were asking "where's the art?".

[Darcklighter22 1,881]

I didn't contradict myself at all. The mixes on ARTPOP didn't come out the way they were supposed to due to the rushed sessions and communication breakdowns between the engineering teams, this was confirmed by Gaga herself in one of her many interviews around the end of the era, along with PropaGaga. 

The singles came out right because they weren't as last-minute and they were actually being sent to radio. My point was simply that every song was meant to be a hit (her own words) but they would have succeeded at that to a greater degree if the production and mixing had been executed more professionally. This is a simple technical issue, not an artistic one. I'm certainly not implying that the album should have or was intended to sound like 1989, I merely used that as an example of how impeccable mixing and vocal engineering helps pop music to ascend to a higher level of commercial success, which was a primary goal with Gaga's album.

Would you have links to the interview(s) and to the thread or post by Propagaga...curious as to how they put it. (has her camp even addressed the instrumentals she chose from Zedd's library etc..?)

but overall the album was rushed and is very commercially safe...I wish she would try to leak "act 2" even if there demo's if those tracks are supposedly more experimental as the final 15 chosen for ARTPOP

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

I agree that ARTPOP sounded quite commercial when the album title itself suggests some element of experimental music. But I have known Gaga for so long I knew she wasn't going to give us full experimental music like what Miley has put out (I only heard two songs btw ), but again, Gaga herself said that there were two volumes to ARTPOP. We only heard the commercial volume and the other volume would contain music of a more experimental nature (which I still doubt would be experimental as you expected), so I'm not sure about you guys but I pretty much already saw that coming when critics were asking "where's the art?".

Miley's album isn't experimental at all, I know what you meant by that but I see the term misused so much. Experimental music is something that's never been done before and has no real musical forebearer. Good examples would be Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band, or The Pleasure Principle by Gary Numan. Experimental music is rare and nothing that gets played on top 40 is experimental, it could never happen.

Music can be innovative while not being experimental, by combining different existing subgenres or musical techniques to create an effect that hasn't been created before. Miley's album doesn't do that either, it's pretty standard neo-psych and dream-pop music althougb some of the songs are done quite well.

That's why I cringe when people say things like having a 70's-sounding dance song with sci-fi elements is risky, unexpected or even innovative when it couldn't be less so. Nothing on Gaga's album, or Miley's album, or any album by a massive popstar in the last couple of years hasn't been done before many times. And there's nothing wrong with that if it's done well.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

Would you have links to the interview(s) and to the thread or post by Propagaga...curious as to how they put it. (has her camp even addressed the instrumentals she chose from Zedd's library etc..?)

but overall the album was rushed and is very commercially safe...I wish she would try to leak "act 2" even if there demo's if those tracks are supposedly more experimental as the final 15 chosen for ARTPOP

Nah sorry. I know the interview was in 2014 but I have no idea when, she did a lot of them. She was ranting about how her music in the past has been mishandled and she hasn't had control over the way her vocals and mixes come out. Then in reference to her most recent album she was describing frantically calling engineers at the last minute and asking why the levels had been changed and why this and that was buried, etc.

Propagaga talked about it on Popjustice a while back and said the actual recording and mixing process for ARTPOP was incredibly rushed and last-minute (which is funny since a lot of fans think she was working on it for way too long and that's why it came out wrong), and that there was total communication breakdown between the various engineering camps, and that Gaga was rushing to make changes to songs to please her label and fans (she had fans camping outside the recording studio and she would ask them for advice lol). She was in an incredibly insecure state of mind and her whole career and schedule had been mismanaged for 2 years straight at this point, she had almost no time to actually do the album right, let alone the era. It was all in the Lady Gaga thread.

[Bradley 54,997]

Miley's album isn't experimental at all, I know what you meant by that but I see the term misused so much. Experimental music is something that's never been done before and has no real musical forebearer. Good examples would be Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band, or The Pleasure Principle by Gary Numan. Experimental music is rare and nothing that gets played on top 40 is experimental, it could never happen.

Music can be innovative while not being experimental, by combining different existing subgenres or musical techniques to create an effect that hasn't been created before. Miley's album doesn't do that either, it's pretty standard neo-psych and dream-pop music althougb some of the songs are done quite well.

That's why I cringe when people say things like having a 70's-sounding dance song with sci-fi elements is risky, unexpected or even innovative when it couldn't be less so. Nothing on Gaga's album, or Miley's album, or any album by a massive popstar in the last couple of years hasn't been done before many times. And there's nothing wrong with that if it's done well.

You gotta understand that "experimental" is quite a wide term. There's this full experimental which I believe is the case of the examples you provided above even though I have never heard even one of them, and there's this pop experimental which is not strictly restricted by technical views. When Gaga said Born This Way or ARTPOP was going to be experimental, you surely wouldn't want to expect her making music like the ones which you yourself said will never see the light of being charted on Hot 100. Pop music itself can be divided into a few categories and we all agree that Gaga is more experimental than Taylor Swift. So ARTPOP, loosely speaking, can, in the opinion of some people, be regarded as to some extent, experimental within the pop music boundary.

Judas doesn't fit the category of what you said "combining different subgenres or musical techniques" but I wouldn't claim Judas to be a commercial pop song.

I just realized I have deviated quite terribly from your point of Miley's album.  I haven't listened to her new album so I won't judge yet.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

You gotta understand that "experimental" is quite a wide term. There's this full experimental which I believe is the case of the examples you provided above even though I have never heard even one of them, and there's this pop experimental which is not strictly restricted by technical views. When Gaga said Born This Way or ARTPOP was going to be experimental, you surely wouldn't want to expect her making music like the ones which you yourself said will never see the light of being charted on Hot 100. Pop music itself can be divided into a few categories and we all agree that Gaga is more experimental than Taylor Swift. So ARTPOP, loosely speaking, can, in the opinion of some people, be regarded as to some extent, experimental within the pop music boundary.

Judas doesn't fit the category of what you said "combining different subgenres or musical techniques" but I wouldn't claim Judas to be a commercial pop song.

I just realized I have deviated quite terribly from your point of Miley's album.  I haven't listened to her new album so I won't judge yet.

It's not a wide term cause it means music that is compositionally original to the point where the result is entirely unforseen. What many pop artists have done is stretch the boundaries of what's acceptable in popular music by taking small elements of experimental music here and there and making them as pallatable as possible for wide audiences. Great example would be The Beatles, who helped spread the psych experimentations of groups like The Yardbirds and The 13th Floor Elevators into pop music. They themselves weren't experimental.

The only song where Gaga has really done this is Bad Romance, which like I said is the only risky song musically that she's put on the radio. Judas is Bad Romance 2.0 but a lot less original, despite the harsher sound it's a dated song, and the religious lyrics may render it less commercial but not more original.

You could also say she did it on Poker Face with it's unique use of stutter-hooks and post-punk sound. Stutter hooks and post-punk were obviously present in the mainstream prior to Poker Face but the specific way she employed them was unique for the time. So there's little examples here and there.

[Tumblr 1,846]

oh gosh, I thought ARTPOP could mean anything but look at this mess of a thread

 

 

 

[Voltaire 4,531]

Gaga may not be making "experimental" music in the Bjork sense of the word. But it'd be a bit of a miss to not understand that for a MAJOR charting pop star she pushes boundaries. These boundaries may not be pushed to the edges of music itself, but it does push the boundaries of what can chart successfully.

I've always viewed her interpretation of pushing boundaries as seeing how far a song can push AND still be a top hit. That's a much harder line to toe.

Y'all don't think she could just make safe hits if she wanted? Y'all don't think she could make true experimental music that says **** it to the charts and general public? Of course she can do both if intended.

Its the convergence that's difficult. Not the extremes.

 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

oh gosh, I thought ARTPOP could mean anything but look at this mess of a thread

 

 

 

LOL everyone is entitled to their opinion.  @CoCo1 and I have strong feels about ARTPOP and we are discussing them. There is nothing wrong with that. It is my opinion that 2008 Justin Beiber hair should be laid to rest but you seem to think it still has life.

[Tumblr 1,846]

LOL everyone is entitled to their opinion.  @CoCo1 and I have strong feels about ARTPOP and we are discussing them. There is nothing wrong with that. It is my opinion that 2008 Justin Beiber hair should be laid to rest but you seem to think it still has life.

I'm fabulous and you're not