It’s time to get past ‘born this way’, says developmental psychologist

[Whispering 18,865]

But what for example with actor Anthony Perkins - he first only had affairs with men (so gay?) until the age of about 39 - then he only had relationships with women (so straight?). Do you think he was bis-xual, secretly gay or also s-xually fluid in a way, like he always said he felt shy around women and then suddenly fell in love with Victoria Principal deeply. What do you think?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Perkins#Personal_life 

 

Your hormones aren't the same at 40, that they were in your teens and twenties. It may be that he was drawn to men s-xually way more than women...maybe like a 5 on the Kinsey scale. As you age, your s-x drive usually changes. Maybe by 40, it was more about love and companionship for him, so when he met someone he feel in love with, the small percentage on the Kinsey scale won out. 

I don't know for sure...just thinking that age could factor into someone who is even somewhat fluid. 

[Ferrer Zorola 3,966]

But what for example with actor Anthony Perkins - he first only had affairs with men (so gay?) until the age of about 39 - then he only had relationships with women (so straight?). Do you think he was bis-xual, secretly gay or also s-xually fluid in a way, like he always said he felt shy around women and then suddenly fell in love with Victoria Principal deeply. What do you think?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Perkins#Personal_life 

 

woah I didn't know that about Perkins 

[HANZ 4,380]

nope you were born liking dick/vagina/both and that's it

this is literally what homophobes think

[TiphEret 1,320]

My opinion has always been like hers TBH.  But it seems in the US it's popular to think people are born this way.

I really don't see how she is doing a disservice to anyone,  she explains it's not only genetics that's all.  Have you heard about epigenetic anyone?  We know the environment has an influence on our genes and those traits can be passed to the next generation.

Personally I found the born this way theory alienating it just put people in a box : born this,  born that.  I am born preferring vanilla to chocolate?  No one get offended when all of sudden your taste buds change?  Would you think your parents influenced every of your taste or traits of personality?  I think people need to chill at the end it's science and antigay usually rely more on religion than scientific studies so whatever.. Haters gonna hate

 

 

[uo111 5,282]

To be frank, people are s-xual with all sorts of things. You can essentially have s-x with a fleshlight and that will have no influence on what you or others consider to be your s-xuality. But if thinking about using a fleshlight turns you on, then it's the actual act itself. So if we extend this logic to people, if a person isn't attracted a gender, but has s-x with them because they like having s-x, are they bis-xual? In other words, what if men attract them, women don't, but they still don't mind having s-x with women (or just trying it) because s-x is nice and why not? Of course this happens all the time (or at least that's what people say).

None of this really has an answer. It just demonstrates that defining s-xuality is pretty much impossible. To say s-xuality is static, or s-xuality is fluid is just blindly making an assumption. The only way to make a blanket statement that encompasses everyone is to say, everyone's s-xuality is different. It's pretty obvious that it's effected by our genes, but that doesn't mean that environmental roles can't/don't make a difference or even that the expression of our genes remain constant over the course of our lives. Sexuality is never really definable because even if we think we know our s-xuality, we can only know it within the confines of our experience thus far.

Basically, Born This Way says that a child can be straight, gay or bi, but s-xual fluidity says that a child doesn't have a s-xuality. Sexual fluidity does not say it's a choice, or that s-xuality has to change as you get older, just that it can.

I'm quite apalled at people who say this is a homophobic statement. This statement goes both ways and can't be used against gays by any person who understands it.

[TiphEret 1,320]

 

To be frank, people are s-xual with all sorts of things. You can essentially have s-x with a fleshlight and that will have no influence on what you or others consider to be your s-xuality. But if thinking about using a fleshlight turns you on, then it's the actual act itself. So if we extend this logic to people, if a person isn't attracted a gender, but has s-x with them because they like having s-x, are they bis-xual? In other words, what if men attract them, women don't, but they still don't mind having s-x with women (or just trying it) because s-x is nice and why not? Of course this happens all the time (or at least that's what people say).

None of this really has an answer. It just demonstrates that defining s-xuality is pretty much impossible. To say s-xuality is static, or s-xuality is fluid is just blindly making an assumption. The only way to make a blanket statement that encompasses everyone is to say, everyone's s-xuality is different. It's pretty obvious that it's effected by our genes, but that doesn't mean that environmental roles can't/don't make a difference or even that the expression of our genes remain constant over the course of our lives. Sexuality is never really definable because even if we think we know our s-xuality, we can only know it within the confines of our experience thus far.

Basically, Born This Way says that a child can be straight, gay or bi, but s-xual fluidity says that a child doesn't have a s-xuality. Sexual fluidity does not say it's a choice, or that s-xuality has to change as you get older, just that it can.

I'm quite apalled at people who say this is a homophobic statement. This statement goes both ways and can't be used against gays by any person who understands it.

I really agree with you! especially the last part. I don't think it's okay to want to ignore studies because you are afraid some people would use against gays. The first time I have heard that people were born gay was here. Because in Europe we mostly believe it's development but with last few years finding that both are connected it's changing of course and scientist still don't know exactly.

When I heard it could be genetic like born this way, I thought it would be the end for gays because then scientist would try to locate that genes and remove it, and here we go no more gays... so you see in both arguments homophobic will find usefull 'things".

Plus it's not because it's development that you choose it. I don't think my personnality was fully formed when I was born, yet I haven't choose who I become. Also something that makes me think a lot is the fact that bi, straight, gay are very in the norm definition: for example I am a girl (and I look and identify like one) and I like feminine girls. I found them attractive while I don't find butch attractive. I could find a very feminine man attractive and consider having s-x with them..am I still gay? Or I am just attracted to feminine girls? See my points? It's complex and instead of creating more labels I think we should do research to try to understand it with a free mind: not focus on gays, focus on s-xuality, and why being straight is so prevalent when we don't only have s-x for reproduction? 

[Born To Slay 10,996]

Inb4 Lady Gaga's song is seen as an example of ignorance in a century.

[Sunny 12,753]

My opinion has always been like hers TBH.  But it seems in the US it's popular to think people are born this way.

I really don't see how she is doing a disservice to anyone,  she explains it's not only genetics that's all.  Have you heard about epigenetic anyone?  We know the environment has an influence on our genes and those traits can be passed to the next generation.

Personally I found the born this way theory alienating it just put people in a box : born this,  born that.  I am born preferring vanilla to chocolate?  No one get offended when all of sudden your taste buds change?  Would you think your parents influenced every of your taste or traits of personality?  I think people need to chill at the end it's science and antigay usually rely more on religion than scientific studies so whatever.. Haters gonna hate

 

 

I think the same, obviously there are outside factors that made us "born this way" 

[RAMROD 117,032]

Either wat, I was moo this way.

[Sunny 12,753]

Either wat, I was moo this way.

 

[RAMROD 117,032]

I love this

[Didymus 34,380]

Sexuality labels are obviously manmade. Nature doesn't work in categories.

In any case, Gaga actually explained that her song is meant to be taken ironically: she doesn't believe you're determined by the way you're born, which is why all her references to birth were embedded in a context of continual rebirth instead of a process of determination. She wanted to promote the idea of choosing to be reborn all the time, whenever you want.

But I mean, I can totally get why that message didn't come across since all the lyrics in BTW point to the opposite Which is why the song was an obvious failure on a lyrical level.

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

Inb4 Lady Gaga's song is seen as an example of ignorance in a century.

It would surely still be considered a positive milestone in the path for equality.

Her blunt attitude and lyrics about the topic are pretty groundbreaking in the history of self empowerment in pop music.

First #1 worldwide hit that includes the word "transgender".

Record breaking on iTunes at the time of release.

 

[Yoshi 35]

im fine staying in 2011

[Emvee 8,829]

Yeah, s-xuality is fluid, I think.

I mean, I went from liking twinks, to liking masculine bears, to liking "straight" or bi alpha males. I guess that's pretty fluid   Just depends on your experiences in life. 

And you'd be pleasantly surprised by the amount of straight guys out there who fantasize about sucking a dick. Quite literally, they just want to suck a dick. Or they like watching two guys have s-x. It's really interesting. And these things are developed... Just like I developed a like for watching a guy eat a girl's blonde south. Is this getting tmi?