Politician booed for saying "All lives matter," apologizes

[Morphine Prince 109,645]

So your work against a system of opression by working under it's rules and separating yourself? Good luck with that

They aren't SEPARATING themselves they are REPRESENTING themselves as BLACK PEOPLE because the system for centuries HAS separated them from WHITE SOCIETY.

BLACK LIVES MATTER. They DO matter. Does it hurt your feelings? BLACK LIVES MATTER. 

[Melech 9,900]

So your work against a system of opression by working under it's rules and separating yourself? Good luck with that

They stand up for themselves due to their oppression. When we look at the past of minorities who got persecuted and didn't stand up and didn't have protests to show they are here, it never ended well. 

Though I wished that all oppressed minorities stand together to protest the oppression white people put on them. 

[Supersonic 49,376]

I still think that "All Lives Matter" actually addresses the issue in a much more specific way It focuses on equal rights and when you're using it in a context of racism and racist violence everyone still knows it's about black people getting the same rights as everyone else, but the focus remains on the ideal of equality and gets a discussion going about how to spread that message. Plus, it can be used for all kinds of conflicts and, that way, get wider exposure and greater force. When someone writes "Black Lives Matter" everyone thinks of U.S. police violence, not about Nigerian citizens getting massacred by (black) Boko Haram members. Its scope is laughably limited and it doesn't even so much as suggest a solution or direction for solutions. It thrives on a promoted (which is dangerous) divide between white criminals (who often represent the state) and innocent black people and if there aren't enough examples of the risk of falling into dualistic philosophies, it's as simple as this: organizing and systematically selecting events of violence to report and spread according to race is not exactly founded on a racist-less theory either. Yes, I think that an issue like police violence against black people can be discussed under a wider umbrella and I don't see any reason for that being wrong or ineffective.

I understand your point but "Black Lives Matter" is a movement specifically dedicated to the struggles of black people in North America, it's scope was never meant to be worldwide. Criticizing it's limited scope is like going to a local group that's protesting a tree getting cut in your neighborhood and saying "yeah, but what about all the trees around the world?"

[Didymus 34,380]

They aren't SEPARATING themselves they are REPRESENTING themselves as BLACK PEOPLE because the system for centuries HAS separated them from WHITE SOCIETY.

There's an alternative road though You could seek to break the barrier of difference that's at the root of the racism instead of insisting there actually is a difference. It's a different strategy that is sure to appeal to a lot more people because everyone can relate to it. I can't even count the times I've been excluded from a legitimate discussion because "I couldn't possibly understand the issue as a white man". That's how you create frustrations, that's how you maintain the poison, that's how you refuse to solve the issue with the people you need behind you.

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,157]

They stand up for themselves due to their oppression. When we look at the past of minorities who got persecuted and didn't stand up and didn't have protests to show they are here, it never ended well. 

Though I wished that all oppressed minorities stand together to protest the oppression white people put on them. 

And that goes against my post how...?

[Jjang 2,262]

So your work against a system of opression by working under it's rules and separating yourself? Good luck with that

They are not separating themselves, they are continuously being separated on a systemic level and as a result of that built this movement as a form of resistance. Acknowledging the system's evil doings is not the same as supporting it or working under its rules.

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,157]

There's an alternative road though You could seek to break the barrier of difference that's at the root of the racism instead of insisting there actually is a difference. It's a different strategy that is sure to appeal to a lot more people because everyone can relate to it. I can't even count the times I've been excluded from a legitimate discussion because "I couldn't possibly understand the issue as a white man". That's how you create frustrations, that's how you maintain the poison, that's how you refuse to solve the issue with the people you need behind you.

Exactly.

They are not separating themselves, they are continuously being separated on a systemic level and as a result of that built this movement as a form of resistance. Acknowledging the system's evil doings is not the same as supporting it or working under its rules.

Then keep the All Lives Matter name lol. Otherwise they're just honoring the system that separates them lol.

[Didymus 34,380]

I understand your point but "Black Lives Matter" is a movement specifically dedicated to the struggles of black people in North America, it's scope was never meant to be worldwide. Criticizing it's limited scope is like going to a local group that's protesting a tree getting cut in your neighborhood and saying "yeah, but what about all the trees around the world?"

Well, I could say the opposite. Focusing on a single aspect is battling symptoms. That has its place, obviously, but you can only go so far with blaming an invisible enemy to make an actual change. Embedding symptoms in their total disease creates an instant awareness, in everybody's mind, of the massiveness of the problem while also making it very direct and universal and easy to grasp. It's easier to understand why we should care about all trees than care about a tree in some neighborhood: it takes too much time to flesh out the details and eventually you can't explain the importance of the situation without referring to larger issues anyway. If you'd insist on the uniqueness of the neighborhood case you'd miss the emotional connection that inspires people to take a stand even when they don't live there. Explaining why people should care about a single tree takes more time than to call on a universal ideal. People will flock to your cause instantly because they're connected by a larger theme.

That's my belief, it's a belief, not a fact, but it's hardly racist

[Redstreak 6,653]

By now he should've known why that phrase doesn't go over well, it's dismissive  

[Redstreak 6,653]

The goal is egalitarism. The movement may be targeted towards black people but "Black lives matter" separates them from the rest, which is counter-productive towards the "we are all equal" goal.

egalitarianism, while a great concept, is such a muddy word to throw around imo. When you take everything, feminism, anti-racism, anti-homophobia, and just mash it all together under some banner word, you take away what makes each case different and why it needs it's different and specific attention and calls to action. When you throw everything in the refrigerator into the pot, you forget what dish you're making.

[Didymus 34,380]

egalitarianism, while a great concept, is such a muddy word to throw around imo. When you take everything, feminism, anti-racism, anti-homophobia, you take away what makes each case different and why it needs it's different and specific attention and calls to action. When you throw everything in the refrigerator into the pot, you forget what dish you're making.

And when you focus on getting one ingredient right without thinking about the main dish, your main dish ends up being a mess too Both are fundamental. Not just one. So: "All Lives Matter" and "Black Lives Matter" actually end up enriching each other.

[Morphine Prince 109,645]

And when you focus on getting one ingredient right without thinking about the main dish, your main dish ends up being a mess too Both are fundamental. Not just one. So: "All Lives Matter" and "Black Lives Matter" actually end up enriching each other.

True but if only everyone thought this way. Unfortunately many whites use All Lives Matter to diminish the importance of why the Black Lives Matter phrase even gained relevance. 

[Didymus 34,380]

True but if only everyone thought this way. Unfortunately many whites use All Lives Matter to diminish the importance of why the Black Lives Matter phrase even gained relevance. 

Oh for sure, I'm not denying that and that is indeed ridiculous and a prime example of the false equality idea Redstreak described. But unlike the idea that some people in this thread promoted: not everyone. The phrase can be defended on its own terms and there are people who can use it and spread it with good intentions.

[Redstreak 6,653]

egalitarianism, while a great concept, is such a muddy word to throw around imo. When you take everything, feminism, anti-racism, anti-homophobia, you take away what makes each case different and why it needs it's different and specific attention and calls to action. When you throw everything in the refrigerator into the pot, you forget what dish you're making.

black lives matter is the main dish. They're being systematically targeted by the police in the country which is why this name was even brought about. This news commentary show I watched recently interviewed an ex-Baltimore cop who said that he was tasked to a patrol a white neighborhood but couldn't make arrests because he knew the people in that area had the power and connections to fight back and were buddy buddy with his higher ups, yet he stil needed to make arrests so he would go to black neighborhoods, where he wasn't assigned, just to find people and arrest to meet his quota because he knew they didn't have the means to fight back. To then have the group who is purposely avoided scream "all lives matter" after having been told countless times since day one that the system inherently does values there lives more, reeks of entitlement and gross ignorance. As if somehow every racial group in the country are facing the same problems on some equal level.

[Morphine Prince 109,645]

Oh for sure, I'm not denying that and that is indeed ridiculous and a prime example of the false equality idea Redstreak described. But unlike the idea that some people in this thread promoted: not everyone. The phrase can be defended on its own terms and there are people who can use it and spread it with good intentions.

Yeah, I mean if I didn't know anything about black issues and read this headline I'd be like "WTF? Getting booed for saying all lives matter?" 

But when you understand how the phrases are used you see them differently. 

Of course ALL lives matter and can be used as a slogan for a movement. But when that phrase has been tainted it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those that have been degraded by it.