"No to Austerity" wins greek Referendum with 61% of the votes

[Melech 9,900]

ONE politician from one party that has 10% of the goverment on Greece said something racist then was removed from the goverment.

Who is saying Germany is building up the fourth reich??? A random newspaper had and article about that and now somehow this represents the entire greek population as well as the goverment! 

It seems like you are the one who is generalising , making assumptions and being racist.

Well, when I look at the demonstrations and the comments of Greeks  I barely see anyone seeing something about Germany. 

 

[Azor Ahai 18,861]

Well, when I look at the demonstrations and the comments of Greeks  I barely see anyone seeing something about Germany. 

 

You barely see anyone saying something about Germany ? Isn't that what you want ? What are you saying? You are so confusing .

[Melech 9,900]

You barely see anyone saying something about Germany ? Isn't that what you want ? What are you saying? You are so confusing .

Nearly every comment of greeks were against germany/netherlands 

 

[Luc 4,776]

ONE politician from one party that has 10% of the goverment on Greece said something racist then was removed from the goverment.

Who is saying Germany is building up the fourth reich??? A random newspaper had and article about that and now somehow this represents the entire greek population as well as the goverment! 

It seems like you are the one who is generalising , making assumptions and being racist.

VforVendetta has said that Germany is imperalist, building a fourth Reich and he keeps comparing the current situation to the second world war. If nobody had said that ('Germany is building a fouth Reich') we wouldn't be talking about that.

I don't see the relation between rightism and austerity. I believe in a socialdemocratic, mixed economy with a balanced budget. Left and right can also be interpreted many ways; culturally right (nationalist: Syriza and ANEL are nationalist, but on the other hand Syriza somewhat supports LGBT rights - eventhough they've barely mentioned that in fear of losing their electorate) and economically right (believing in a small government with the lowest taxes possible).

Both leftists and rightists can choose to believe in a balanced budget and should. Leftist believe in a big government and fair income distribution and that's completely OKAY! I support that! Merkel (centrist), Schäuble (centrist), Dijsselbloem (left-wing), Hollande (socialist) and many others support that! The right-wing politicians in the EU respect Greece's democracy and their will to have a fairer income distribution. They see no problem in that. They do, however, want a balanced budget, and for that you need higher taxes and/or reduced spending. How they do that, is up to Syriza. They could cut on defense (like Syriza's manifesto states), they could higher taxes on the ship industry, on wealth and on high incomes. They could tackle tax evasion, and they could tackle corruption. All of which they were elected for. Problem? They don't want to! They don't want to change anything - they don't want to raise taxes on neither the rich nor the poor. All they want is a debt reduction, favourably with nothing done in return. That's not the compromise Syriza seeks so desperately.

 

So happy for Greece! You did the right thing!

we are supposed to be an European UNION. A union is made to support everyone, and there will be countries who need more help at certain times. And the people of that country are not guilty, and the rest of europe shouldn't be putting a gun on their head to make them live in bad conditions because of others mistakes.

This whole thing has changed my view of the EU so much. SO MUCH.

Spain is a country, and it is divided in different territories. Each one of them (17 in total) with their own governments and economy. Each one of them participating to the central government, who gives money in proportion to everyone. There are some who need more (Extremadura) and others are already rich (Catalunya, Madrid, Valencia...) and I don't see those asking Extremadura to give their money back. THAT IS A UNION.

Europe right now looks like a joke to me. A joke to keep some countries rich while pushing the others down.

United States is what we want to be? Lmao. We are so far away from that.

And this referendum is the most democratic thing done in Europe in a long time. What is not democratic is rich countries doing what they want to the others, and making peoples life worse when they are already rich and out of the crisis. The people are the ones who have to decide because that decision affects their lifes ditectly. Unlike yours or mine. Because we wouldn't notice if that debt is paid. You can say otherwise, but it is true.

Germany had to be helped by every of us after the war. They are where they are now thanks to every other country. And they didn't pay. Wtf.

You have to know that in order for the EU to be a transfer union, there would need to be a new European treaty with politicians voting or referenda - north-European countries don't want that and that's because North-European countries are also democracies. 

Just as how north-European countries don't want to give Greece a debt reduction. If a debt reduction happens, it would be the most undemocratic thing to happen in the last few years next to TTIP - because if you'd hold a referendum, maybe 20% or 30% would support a debt reduction for Greece.

Don't get me wrong, I support a debt reduction for Portugal and I would support one for Greece, but only if Greece shows that they can continue on their own in the future without needing another bailout and another debt reduction every 20 years. Greece hasn't shown their willingness to actually reform their budget, labour rules, pension system, banking system and more and therefore shouldn't receive a debt reduction.

And in the end, the countries who have profited the most from the European Union are the countries that gained more than they gave to the EU - South Europe and East Europe. The countries that benefitted the most from the Eurozone (which was braught in to REDUCE Germany's power!) are Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal who could buy loans for Germany's interest rates.

In the view of most of you I see a lack of respect for North European countries. Northern European countries should give money, bailouts and debt reductions to Southern Europe because the majority of South Europeans want that. But Northern Europeans? Nah, they have no will in this. It's actually extremely hypocritical, considering that that was the problem most had with the troika.

The referendum wasn't very democratic. It might seem like a contradiction. A referendum needs an objective question and the first option should be 'Yes'. People also need enough time to think about their opinion, and the government should show what the consequences and benefits of each vote would be. I also consider the Greek government to not be democratically chosen: they got 50 free seats which nobody voted for. I don't consider that to be democratic. Syriza should have about 110 seats in the parliament, that if the Greek democratic system were to be farer.

Germany indeed had a debt reduction and if Syriza shows it can fix Greece's long-term problems I think that debt reduction should also happen for Greece

[VforVendetta 2,024]

LMAO

Did you really just said that? We build ourselves up again. We were divided because of the West and the East, do you really think that this is helping? Dividing a whole nation?!?!? We got our shiit together and elected the right politicians when it comes to economy. We lost huge parts of our country and you call that helping? Germany paid reparations money to France,UK,Russia and the USA. 

Yeah, it's easy to give germany all the fault. But let me tell you. Germans don't give a fück about your greek nationalist propagandist opinions. The majority of Germans is also happy that you finally said no and the majority hope you leave because we don't have any interest in your whining and blaming us all the time. 

I blame the government, nit German people.

[VforVendetta 2,024]

You keep shouting things without ever showing an example, argument or whatsoever. If you say the EU is corrupt, give examples! If it's undemocratic, show examples of how it should be to you! If you say the media I follow is full of propaganda, show me examples!

All you're doing is repeating catchy phrases by populist politicians and populist media from your country.

Comparing the current Greek crisis to the second world war is ridiculous to say the least, by the way. If they cut 400 million on the defense it's not going to kill anyone. Raising taxes on yachts is not going to kill anyone or make anybody get into poverty. Raising business taxes isn't going to kill anyone. 

I'll give you examples then. EU is a Union that forces the smaller countries,lift the weights of the economies of the bigger ones. All around Europe there is a huge social crisis, the wealthy become wealthier while the poor end up committing suicide. The huge companies control everything and the leaders of most countries serve their purposes. Germany has used the Union to colonize Europe and make her economy grow while the smaller countries suffer. I won't even start refering to Mastrich and the change to EU. 

And new what my country is experiencing is a war, it's just an economical War.

And to answer your question about what do I suggest. Many things. For start Europe could have erased the dept and spare our people from, then the country could make actual changes and grow. Even if we have to pay, they could leave the country for some years to step up and walk on its feet and then ask fo prom a healthy economy a payback. Of course there is a reason the powers of Europe insist of Austerity, they have a profit over it, they become wealthier, more influential and they increase their dominance over the weaker countries of Europe. Don't even try to claim I have no facts cause this is only a fraction from what I know about EU, what do you know though?

[Luc 4,776]

I'll give you examples then. EU is a Union that forces the smaller countries,lift the weights of the economies of the bigger ones. All around Europe there is a huge social crisis, the wealthy become wealthier while the poor end up committing suicide. The huge companies control everything and the leaders of most countries serve their purposes. Germany has used the Union to colonize Europe and make her economy grow while the smaller countries suffer. I won't even start refering to Mastrich and the change to EU. 

And new what my country is experiencing is a war, it's just an economical War.

And to answer your question about what do I suggest. Many things. For start Europe could have erased the dept and spare our people from, then the country could make actual changes and grow. Even if we have to pay, they could leave the country for some years to step up and walk on its feet and then ask fo prom a healthy economy a payback. Of course there is a reason the powers of Europe insist of Austerity, they have a profit over it, they become wealthier, more influential and they increase their dominance over the weaker countries of Europe. Don't even try to claim I have no facts cause this is only a fraction from what I know about EU, what do you know though?

Eventhough I disagree (with your brainwashedness), I'm happy to see why you consider Europe and Germany to be 'imperalist' and undemocratic.

I just disagree with removing debt. It is counterproductive and debt relief should only be used as a reward.

"A Man who had been bitten by a Dog was going about asking who could cure him. One that met him said: "Sir, if you would be cured, take a bit of bread and dip it in the blood of the wound, and give it to the dog that bit you." The Man smiled, and said: "If I were to follow your advice, I should be bitten by all the dogs in the city."

He who proclaims himself ready to buy up his enemies will never want a supply of them."

Thought I'd explain it in a classical way with an Aesop's fable  

When you give debt relief right now, Syriza will become lazy and Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain will also want debt relief.

If debt relief is given it should be after the Greek economy is reformed as a whole. Greece needs to become a welfare state rather than a pension state. Greece needs to be more competitive with less bureaucracy and red tape and easilier starting up a business. Greece needs to loosen it's labour rules so they can finally destroy the unfsir benefits public sector employees have. Greece needs a smaller government: for example 300 seats in the parliament should become 150, the amount of ministers should be cut down, ministries fused and the amount cut down. Tax evasion and corription need to be almost totally gone. And when that is done, Greece could get debt relief. 

It isn't, by the way, the debt that's ruining the Greek economy. It's the lack of modernity. The labour rules should be more flexible to decrease unenployment and increase competitiveness. I also keep seeing things on TV about old people having no credit card, for example. And a lot of work is still done with paper. I don't see Syriza capable of actually doing something technical like that but the next government should look at it.

In the end, Greece's debt is actually not that high. Greece pays about as much interest to gdp as Portugal, Spain and Italy. But in the end it's entirely up to the Eurozone nations to give it. But I think they want to put some conditions before they give over 100 billion away.

[NewYorkCity 10,536]

LMAO

Did you really just said that? We build ourselves up again. We were divided because of the West and the East, do you really think that this is helping? Dividing a whole nation?!?!? We got our shiit together and elected the right politicians when it comes to economy. We lost huge parts of our country and you call that helping? Germany paid reparations money to France,UK,Russia and the USA. 

Yeah, it's easy to give germany all the fault. But let me tell you. Germans don't give a fück about your greek nationalist propagandist opinions. The majority of Germans is also happy that you finally said no and the majority hope you leave because we don't have any interest in your whining and blaming us all the time. 

1953, London. Lots of countries (including, guess who? Yes, GREECE) forgive a 60% of the debt to Germany after the war.